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Thread: ATACC in place of HAC?

  1. #1

    Default ATACC in place of HAC?

    Can I remove the HAC and replace with ATACC? I believe that the HAC has failed on my machine.

    Any imput?

    Thanks,

  2. #2
    Member Erik in AK's Avatar
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    I have an ATACC on both my machines, never had a lick of trouble with either (about 4000 miles combined). Just follow the brand/model specific installation instructions from Holtzmann.

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    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    I removed my DPM altitude compensator on my '98 Summit X and replaced it with a Holzman Vari-Flow and it worked great.

    Basically, you are going to need to plug off the vacumm ports on the carbs that the HAC connects too and then add the ATACC per Holzman's directions. You can also call them and they will walk you through how to make it work.
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    Member Bullelkklr's Avatar
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    How can you tell if your HAC is not working?

    What does it really do?

    I don't understand how 1-2 thousand feet of elevation here in AK should make that much difference??

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    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    HAC and DPM work on atmospheric pressure..both of which are changed by changes in altitude AND temperature..and combinations of both. When I leave my house I can have a 3000' change in elevation and it often warms up by 20 degreees as I go higher.. it makes a HUGE difference in power. You can ride from sea level to 8000' in Valdez if you know what you are doing.

    If a sled doesn't have EFI, I install an ATACC. No more changing jets when the temps drop or rise, no more rejetting for altitude. Works great in the spring when temps are 0 in the morning and warm to 40F by mid-day.
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    Member Bullelkklr's Avatar
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    OK. I have two 196 ski-doo's. One is a Grand Touring 500 (or 583?) and does not have HAC. The other is a 670 summit that has the HAC. I am putting a rebuilt motor in the 670 tonight. The summit has 800 miles on it. I am assuming that the HAC is still good so not really worried about replacing it.

    I don't plan to ride high elevation mountains this year and maybe never. I don't know what I am doing....and I get stuck a lot!

    I hope that the GT does fine without making any mods or spending any $$ on it. It has 752 miles on it and ran really good last spring when we took it out.

    I am going to put a battery on the GT as it has electric start for the wife...but is the 670 going to be a beast to pull over when it gets cold?

    Am toying with the idea of putting a block heater on each one and then wiring in a DC/AC converter to power the heaters on the drive to the trailheads...anyone done that? Any problems with doing it?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullelkklr View Post
    Am toying with the idea of putting a block heater on each one and then wiring in a DC/AC converter to power the heaters on the drive to the trailheads...anyone done that? Any problems with doing it?
    Most of these guys are very serious about getting the last nth degree of power out of their sleds. If you do not need this, then stick with what you have. It works.

    When shutting off the machine, choke it for just a second or two and hit the kill button. This will coat the cylinder walls with a heavy (compared to not doing this), film of oil so the motor will be easier to pull over. Try pulling over an 800 tripple at -25*F, it doesn't work very well.
    The block heaters are the shiznitz. I installed one on my '99 xcr-800 and it became a one-pull machine even in the coldest temps. Best of all, it only takes 45 minutes for the entire motor to warm up, but the jug farthest from the heater is coolest, so still let the motor warm up to a normal operating temp and don't jump on it for a couple of miles.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

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  8. #8
    Member Bullelkklr's Avatar
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    I also ride a harley - I understand letting things warm up good before taking off.

    I think that I will put a magnetic 100 watt heater in each bike and then use a 300 watt ac/dc converter that I already have to power it for the ride to the trailhead. At night I can plug them into 110 at the house. I also run a little enclosed trailer so the heaters running will raise the ambient a tiny bit hopefully.

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    Member Bullelkklr's Avatar
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    A bit off topic -

    I was talking to the rebuilder last night and he said this rebuilt motor is an X which he says is the same as the HO series. This one is a 98 or a 99 (what i was told).

    This spawned a couple questions...

    1) is the X the same as HO?

    2) if this is an HO motor will I need to rejet the carbs?

    Do you grease up the HAC and the vacumm lines prior to putting them on/in the air basket?

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    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    I own an X motor. They are fantastic, but have some serious things to get used to. First, they are a royal pain in the butt to get started if you don't know the tricks. They also flood easily if rolled over or parked on a downhill, but there is a fix. The HO motors came with DPM, not HAC. The X or HO motor has heavily ported cases, different rotary valves, different pistons and different heads than the standard 670. It's compression should be near 150 lbs vs. 125 for the standard 670. Any chance you can post pics of the engine? I should be able to tell if it's an HO or standard with a good shot of the engine.

    Carbs on the HO are significantly larger than the standard 670 carbs. You could probably make standard carbs work with the HO motor, but it would take some serious work to get the jetting figured out. HO carbs will not work with a standard air box, and HO carb boots will not work with standard carbs. All of which can be switched around, but it's a pain.
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  11. #11
    Member Bullelkklr's Avatar
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    Sounds like what i need to do is get the HO airbox, DPM, carbs, boots, and CDI from him to make this work as easy as possible. This bike has been a PITA....and looking like more.

  12. #12
    Member Bullelkklr's Avatar
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    The carbs that I have fit this engine fine. I really am not positive what the engine is. The head is definately an HO model. It has two electrical ports (temp and dpm) and two vacuum ports.

    I am able to start the motor but it is running very very poorly.

    I am using my old CDI on this "new" 1998 block. The Cranks are the same - identicle. The flywheels are the same. Timing does not line up like manual says.

    Good learning experience...

  13. #13

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    When shutting off the machine, choke it for just a second or two and hit the kill button. This will coat the cylinder walls with a heavy (compared to not doing this), film of oil so the motor will be easier to pull over. Try pulling over an 800 tripple at -25*F, it doesn't work very well.
    Better living through chemistry (I'm a chemist)
    I'm not tring to poop on your parade, but I want you to think about what you wrote:

    buy pulling on the choke, you are inducing more GAS into the engine, remember its oil injected, and the ONLY thing that puts more oil into the motor is applying throttle, which in turn moves the lever on the oil pump, and it delivers more oil to the engine.

    The reason way the engine turns over easier when you choke the engine, is you wash off some of the oil from the cylinder walls, thus making it easier to turn over. Don't belive me, just pour some of your 2 cycle oil out at -20, and see how smooth it pours, oh wait it comes out in thick gooie lumps

    just a thought

    attac's are awesome, after they are setup

  14. #14
    Member Bullelkklr's Avatar
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    I have been having a bear getting this thing to run and it still won't idle or hold a steady RPM. I can keep it idling with the primer. Put on a new CDI, fuel pump, coil is good (I swapped it with a coil off my 500). I replaced all of the vacuum and fuel lines t/from the carbs/fuel tank/HAC/block.

    Tonight I am going to check to verify that have good vacuum pull at the carb intakes. Then I am going to disconnect the HAC all together to see if it will idle.

    I am pretty close to thinking that I have a fuel or a vacuum issue.

    I have also found that you can take the HAC apart and check it to make sure that it is not leaking and you can modify the plunger to make it rich/lean. It is sounding like the HAC's go back quite often...guess that there is a reason that the manufacture's quit using them and went to DPM and now EFI etc.

  15. #15
    Member Bullelkklr's Avatar
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    AKDoug - I sent you a pm to pick your brain.

    I got it to idle last night by disconnecting the HAC. I think that I had the HAC plumbed wrong.....does the center bottom HAC line vent to atmosphere or route to a vaccum/pulse fitting on the block?

    Does one of the vaccum's on the block need to be open to atmosphere?


    AKDoug - you said that "They also flood easily if rolled over or parked on a downhill, but there is a fix."

    What is the fix for this flooding issue? Better seats and needles in the carbs?

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