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Thread: Limited "ENTRY" Hunting, sell your license.

  1. #1

    Default Limited "ENTRY" Hunting, sell your license.

    How about Limited entry Hunting, just like limited entry commercial fishing, we could have limited entry hunting. And when your old and done hunting you could give your Limited Entry hunting License to your son, or sell it......

    We could cap it at say 50,000 total licenses. Or pick a number you like...


    OR: Residents can only hunt every other year. and non-residents can only hunt once every fourth year.

    OR: just keep reducing the bag limits, and shortening the seasons, and move the seasons further from the rut.

  2. #2
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    Default idea

    I have a better idea.... its called predator control

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by yukon254 View Post
    I have a better idea.... its called predator control

    Alaska has been doing that for 105 years, and still not enough Animals, and too many Humans.

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    Member patrickL's Avatar
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    Default

    Wow, why not just turn it into something only the super rich can do.

    Commercial fishing and hunting are apples and oranges.

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    Default 105

    bummer to often (read always) predator control is thought to mean only wolves ! Black and brown bears are as bad or worse than wolves, in the spring calving time. (look into the Elk herd explosion in Yukon the last few years)
    When I lived in BC in the 80s the moose population took a nose dive, fish/game reset the black bear limit from 2 to 5. In the second year the moose population was rebounding. Humans.... you might have a lot of hunters but you aint seen nothing like hunting season in Northern BC!
    And yet it is the best hunting in NA. nothing else even comes close. Why... predator control.. the outfitters in that part of the country are a solid bunch who grew up knowing what the 3 SSS mean, and they do it. Its that simple, but go on and keep introducing new rules/regs Im sure the Canadian outfitters are smiling

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    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    AGL4now,

    Your avatar pic kinda screams out to me every time I see it.

    Just what is it we should all be outraged about?

  7. #7
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    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm??????????

    375,000 Caribou in WACH, (the healthiest around acording to ADFnG) Moose at every bend in the river, and "ZIP" for predator control, outside of just what we get when we get it........Game/Predator managemant is about the same here, today, as it was 100 years ago, as "Natural" as can be.......

    Cabellas army has its manuvers in Sept, up this way ta boot........and thers very limited outfitters/guides working up this way

    How does predator control improve things?
    We Humans are the top Predator killing the biggest and best, as I have observed.....

    Ya, I dont know everything, and so Im asking those who do.

    I think limiting licenses would just make criminals of most of us, and then they'll pry it from my cold dead fingers.......
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post
    still not enough Animals, and too many Humans.
    You're wrong. There are plenty of animals. Yeah, there could be more of certain species in certain units, but overall Alaska's wildlife is abundant. I'm not suggesting management couldn't be better in some cases, but the blanket statement of "still not enough animals" is outright false.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    AGL4now,

    Your avatar pic kinda screams out to me every time I see it.

    Just what is it we should all be outraged about?

    Pick anything, I don't care. For me it is the corruption on Wall Street, and that the regulators allowed the indiscriminate use of derivatives to corrupt the financial system, and destroy the great Nation of America. And bring forth the greatest catastrophic World Depression ever, in the history of mankind. But that is just my soap box, you have to get your own.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    You're wrong. There are plenty of animals. Yeah, there could be more of certain species in certain units, but overall Alaska's wildlife is abundant. I'm not suggesting management couldn't be better in some cases, but the blanket statement of "still not enough animals" is outright false.
    Then why the fighting over the harvest-able animals.......? Did 100% of hunters have 85% successful hunts in 2009'. I just hear a lot of crying that on this forum about, "I want MORE" and MORE of everything. I think there are plenty of animals, I think there are too many hunters pursuing them. And I fear tens of thousands more hunter in the coming years.

  11. #11
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post
    Then why the fighting over the harvest-able animals.......?
    There are plenty of animals, but not all hunters are willing to pay/work for the necessary access. There are some legitimate concerns along these lines, but still, there are enough animals.

    Incidentally, I don't view "enough" as being the # of animals needed to give hunters an 85% success rate. I have no desire to live on a game ranch, and that's what is necessary to manufacture those types of success rates.

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    Default control

    Stranger.... I will give you one example of predator control and how it helps, then give my view of the game populations of old times.
    Look at a map of Southeast Yukon, find the Hyland river and the area east of there to the borders. The area is some of the best moose habitat you have ever seen. In that whole area less than 20 moose are taken each year. That area has 0 resident pressure other than myself and 2 other trappers who live there, the rest are taken by the local outfitter. 25 years ago when I first entered that country there were 8 trappers in that country that trapped hard and the area had plenty of moose.
    Now its not that way, our moose population has dropped dramatically as the wolf population has increased. In areas we used to hunt we would see 15 or 20 bulls each day, now sometimes we see none. For many years trappers kept the balance but once they left the wolf population exploded. Sure in 10 or 20 years it might come back if left alone but it might not too.
    Most people dont understand that there has always been predator control. The Kaska elders will tell you how as children they were instructed to scour the hills looking for wolf dens, then of course they killed them. Also wildfires that occurred in those times were not put out and in the spring this no doubt killed many young wolves that would stay close to the den.Now of course most of those fires get hit with everything forestry can muster. Read Alaskas wolf man, he spent many years up there and had some very interesting info on this subject.
    Brian I would be careful when you say there are enough animials, maybe there is "enough" but Alaskans that have lived /hunted there for a long time might be seeing a decline. The people who are out on the land a lot are usally the first to see the trends and it could signal trouble.
    We talk to lower 48 hunters every year who have hunted AK for years who certainly dont agree with you.

  13. #13

    Default

    Brian M, My agenda is simple. In the last 40 years I have seen the population of humans in Alaska more than double. I have seen the fighting over access to the resources magnify, and I see no reason to anticipate a reversal of either. It is my contention that the population of Alaska will double in the next 26 years. Hunters are going to become more and more marginalized, and subordinated to the feel'good resource applications, namely wildlife viewing.

    I just feel that hunters need to quit squabbling like five year old children, stop coming from a selfish position, and get on with the hard choices that are required to guarantee hunting for your children. Note: I have no children, and barring DLP, I am done hunting. I passionately love Alaska, and her bounty. I get sick of the non-productive squabbling.

  14. #14
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Default

    If you can't drive to them there must not be enough. On the flip side if you can't go hunting and not see other people there must be to many.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by strangerinastrangeland View Post
    375,000 Caribou in WACH, (the healthiest around acording to ADFnG) Moose at every bend in the river, and "ZIP" for predator control, outside of just what we get when we get it........Game/Predator managemant is about the same here, today, as it was 100 years ago, as "Natural" as can be.......
    I remember hearing similar comments from folks in Nondolton, Stony River, McGrath, Eureka, Central and a few other places, not too long ago. Honestly, you might think about keeping a few of them antlers around the home place for the grandkids to see what it used to be like.

    I actually sorta like the idea of the grandfathering of the Hunting Fraternity. Might keep some of the Riff Raff out. Seems like it's already a bought into thing any way, with the necessary Gear these days and cost of transportation to most areas of the state. A Limited Entry License might just fill the bill. Yeah, I like it.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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  16. #16
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yukon254 View Post
    Brian I would be careful when you say there are enough animials, maybe there is "enough" but Alaskans that have lived /hunted there for a long time might be seeing a decline. The people who are out on the land a lot are usally the first to see the trends and it could signal trouble.
    We talk to lower 48 hunters every year who have hunted AK for years who certainly dont agree with you.
    I appreciate the comments, yukon. For what it's worth, I was born and raised in Alaska and have been hunting every year since birth. (Well, I didn't hunt that year....but I was afield by the age of three months. ) I don't know if 31 years counts as a long time, but I'd like to think that I've got a decent idea of what is going on in much of the state, and at least a better idea than lower 48 hunters that visit for a week or two. That being said, I don't claim to be an expert - just sharing my observations.

    You hit on an important note with regards to forest fires. The real problem with not letting fires burn isn't that it doesn't kill wolves, but that we're not letting old forests re-generate into the young growth that moose thrive on. Habitat that could be far more productive is protected over and over again from burning, and our moose populations suffer for it. Predation plays a role as well - of course I understand that - but habitat is the primary factor limiting moose population growth in many areas due to misguided fire policies.

    Again, when I say there are enough animals, I am not suggesting that there's not room for growth. When someone complains that there's not enough animals to have a reasonable chance of harvest, though, I can't help but question either their priorities (trophy quality, species, etc), their motivation, or their methods.
    Last edited by Brian M; 02-05-2010 at 15:41. Reason: spelling

  17. #17
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    Default fires

    Understand your point Brian. Yes forest fires do help with moose habitat, no question about that. But there are vast areas in Yukon and AK that never burn (no trees) these areas used to hold good populations of moose.
    In the area I described in the southeast Yukon was pulled off the fire list (they let all wildfires burn unless they threaten buildings) 10 years ago, yet our moose population is still crashing.
    In my view the cow/calf ratio in the fall tells us the story, if you have lots of cows without calves in the fall its a good bet you have a predator problem. Without recruitment a herd cant grow or stabilize.
    I admit I have never hunted AK but I would question your comment that habitat is the primary factor effecting population growth in many areas. I have never heard of anywhere where moose had reached maximum carrying capacity. I would like to hear others view on that. I certainly am not saying habitat is not important or has an effect in some areas, Im questioning the "primary factor" comment.
    I would think that 31 years would give you plenty of experince. For what its worth the area in BC that is commonly called the "Serengeti of the north" has had a long history of controled burning, first by the outfitters, (it was illegal then but they did it anyway) about 8 years ago BC forestry got on side and now every year they do controled burns. Anyone who has ever hunted that country can not deny the outcome of many years of good wildlife management that included predator control (and still does) I have spent a lot of time there and its like you are in a park... game of all kinds everywhere, and I saw the biggest wolf pack there I have ever seen, (16).
    The methods used there would work anywhere, and I understand that the control program AK has is helping.
    good hunting!

  18. #18
    RMK
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    Default both sides have a point

    I too have hunted here a long time. In the late 60s and through the 70s, there wasn't that many people hunting off the Denali Highway, and there were lots of caribou and moose.

    Things have changed in a big way up there in terms of animal populations, and the hunting rules.

    I am not going to blame just the influx of people, or the wolves and bears. I think there are a lot of factors that add up, and Alaska is getting a little less remote every year.

    There are still many great hunting opportunities, it just is a bit harder, and a bit more expensive than the old days.

    Progress has it's price.

  19. #19
    Member Bighorse's Avatar
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    Default Density and population

    I'm gonna chalk one up for proper game management for the State of Alaska. I can effectively live off the game I've harvested from 2009. The fish too under sport and subsistence regulations.

    Of course my family considers the costs of all this while budgeting. Taxidermy too!

    So this time of year we talk windshields, canning, airfare, travel and gear. With relatively moderate consideration while budgeting I can get out and hunt/fish each year and feed my family.

    So in SE the hunting is expensive yet the return considerable if done proper.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by RMK View Post
    I too have hunted here a long time. In the late 60s and through the 70s, there wasn't that many people hunting off the Denali Highway, and there were lots of caribou and moose.
    I built much of the road/trail back to Windy Lake, off the Denali Road. When I homesteaded up there the caribou were so plenty-full I had to plug my ears to sleep, as the clicking noise they made as they filed past the cabin was loud.

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