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Thread: Glock G30....

  1. #1
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    Default Glock G30....

    What do ya think of the G30 as a pocket pistol?

    I know its tupperware and I know they make smaller and lighter as well as the other way too, but thinking of something for the pocket of a Coronado Leather Jacket.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  2. #2

    Default Glocks and Glock 30

    Most times I just read and stalk but....

    regarding the subject matter of this thread, I feel I do have standing to make a contribution.

    But before doing so I feel the need to qualify my position and level of experience regarding the subject matter. I'm just approaching that 50 year old point in life, been around just about long enough to know that I don't know everything, maybe just long enough to have learned a thing or two.

    Been shooting/handling firearms since my teens and carried one as a law man (both local uniformed and Federal Agent) for the past 30 years. Past ten plus years have been as a Firearms Instructor for the fed agency I work for. That position has exposed me to shooting with, observing and training many types of people of all sizes. Most importantly to this thread many of those people I've trained have been women who started out thier career in law enforcement without ever having held a firearm. As the agency has progressed I've trained people in several types of handguns. Done the revolver thing, double action only Sig 228, Glock 23 (40 cal) to name a few. I've personally carried a Kimber 1911 and a Sig 220 .45 auto, which is a single stack mag, carried a Para-Ordinance double stack 45 auto which is a fat 1911. I am a certified Glock Armour. And for a my retirement years I personally have chosen the Glock 30 45 auto and had it Mag-na-ported. That gun will be buried with me some day in the coffin.

    So, what have I learned that might be of pertinence to this thread. Couple things actually. First, a single stack magazine requires substantially different street tactics than that of a double stack magazine. I've participated and taught many Hogan's Alley training environments, interior versions of Hogan's Alleys, done the Simunitions training (a type of Paint-ball course that affords non-lethal live fire training) and can fully attest to the fact that single stack magazines require a much greater attention to counting rounds during the stress of a gun fight than do double stackers. A shooter needs to be constantly aware of the Tactical Magazine swap or run the risk of shooting dry. That one issue dictates tactics, influences the thought process and risk management decisions that are required to win gun fights.

    Second, the original poster was basically asking the question of what would be a handgun that his minimally experienced spouse could use, achieve some level of competency with a minimal amount of trigger time, and still obtain proficiency. I submit the 1911 as a single action handgun is not the best choice for that application. Manually pulling the hammer back takes far too much precious time. Cocked and locked requires a person to do "something" to make the gun fire. That "something" is called a fine motor function and in times of stress, (like engaging in a gunfight) fine motor skills are first to disapate from the body. For the inexperienced shooter you'll want point a shoot capability. That means double action on at least the first round. No "something" required, except to pull back on the trigger.

    The Glock Action Trigger affords the same pull of the trigger on the first round, thoughout the magazine and to the last round. This consistency aids the new shooter and affords a quicker development of confidence. The trigger pull is designed such that, with proper training it is possible to accurately rapid fire with 7-8 pieces of brass in the air at one time. Obviously this technique is directed toward the advanced shooter but certainly combat accuracy is achievable at this rapid speed.

    Tupperware guns, water pistols, all the other enduring names the nay-sayers have toward the Glock handgun tend to slander the lethality of the Glock. Granted the Glock will never approach the beautiful workmanship of the Colt 1911 or the silky smooth trigger of the Kimber. It's not designed to. It's not built with the attention to hand-fitting detail that the machined 1911 is built with. I personally can admire the look and feel of a finely built, highly detailed weapon but that does not mean it has to be finely detailed to excel in a gun fight. The Glock is designed to win gun fights. (period)

    Some Glock features/issues folks might not be aware of:

    Tenifer Coating: The black film that coats the weapon surface, resistent to rust, nearly as hard as Diamond. Not just blueing.

    Polymer Frame: Plastic does not rust folks.

    Trigger Groups: Ability to swap internal parts to modify the trigger pull without significant hand honing / fitting of components.

    Interchangability of magazines and barrels, within certain groups of Glock Models.

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    author unknown to me......oneriver

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    Very good gun but in my view has two drawbacks as a pocket gun. First, like all Glocks it’s a thick little thing. The second is the trigger, I fear something getting in there and setting her off in my pocket without a holster. So to me a holster is a must for a Glock and this makes it necessary to draw it where I could shoot my S&W J-frame through the coat if I ever need to. Naturally firing any auto inside the pocket will likely induce a jam but you still get one if you need it and it’s not holstered in the pocket. Any gun I would pack upholstered I want a heck of a trigger pull on or multiple leaves of safeties. I don’t want to be loading bags of lawn fertilizer and soda pop down at the Wal-Mart and shoot myself. These may not be drawbacks for others but they are for me.

    Andy
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    I have owned and carried a Glock 30 for a number of years. The first improvement I made was to add Trijicon night sights. They helped over the regular factory sights a lot. About a year later I installed a LaserMax laser sight. That thing is amazing. Took a couple of minutes to install and it was dead on at fifteen yards with the first shot.

    Other than those two changes, I have just shot the gun and performed normal maintenance on it. Mainly cleaning every now and then.

    As for carrying, I use an inside the waist holster that does not have a strap to hold the gun in the holster. After many years of carrying it, I have never even had the slightest feeling that it was going to fall out.

    The 10 in the magazine plus one in the chamber should be plenty enough fire power to sort out any situation. After that, another magazine is probably not going to help. But you could always carry another magazine in your pocket on the off side from the gun to help balance the weight.

    It is a great package when you consider size, caliber, reliability, and cost. All in all, you could do a lot worse than a Glock 30 as a carry weapon.

  5. #5
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    Thanks, Oneriver for that reply of experience.
    As most here know I'm not new to handguns or shooting but am exploring the newer compacts of some of these models. I am also well versed with the Glocks and after trying to destroy a couple I too am convinced of their durability and reliability.

    A Glock does bring to the range a simple and reliable platform that enables new and experienced shooters alike to deliver effective fire quickly.

    This G30 I have spied is a SF "slim frame" or "short frame" and comes with two 10 round short double stackers but will accept the 13 rounder from the standard G21. An added benefit of dubious value other than for that imaginary shootout with a dozen bad guys.

    I have owned a G22, G23, G20, G21 and have passed them on for the newer generation of present G21, OD frame and G20SF. This new G30 will get Trijicon sights an extra magazine or two. To me it seems to be about the right size or the right compromise in size and features. About a four inch barrel gives some sight radius and the ten round size grip leaves something to hang on to. The single stack G36 seemed unnatural in grip with the narrow polymer frame and as you said brings with it the concerns of a single stack and a short one at that.

    I have never had the opportunity to shoot one of these and was wondering about how effective it was in the hands of the weekend shooter.

    I cut my teeth on the 1911 and will never be very far from one. I do have several to choose from but they are a little heavy and bulky for jacket pocket carry. even my Commander length NightHawk is a bit heavy and long. A shoot through the pocket gun needs to be a little shorter and snag free.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  6. #6

    Smile me too...

    I have been shooting the Glock 36 for a about a year. 2 of my friends from work now own them. I really like it and it shoots plenty good for it's intended purpose. It holds 7 .45 rounds. The Glock 30SF is next on my list. As you know Murphy, when it comes to hand guns what feels good to you may be different for me. It is not as cold to my hands as my 1911 in the winter if I am not wearing gloves. Also, if I am wearing gloves the trigger guard area and trigger are a lot more forgiving of a big gloved index finger sliding in. Over all I really like it and it conceals very well. So the Glock 30 has to be good. Good guns, even if they are butt ugly compared to my 1911 and Browning Hi Power. Good to hear from you again.

  7. #7
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    I am quite partial to my Glock 27. Packs very small for sure and is right at home in a car door, center console, glove box, or jacket pocket. If not carrying that, I carry my S&W 432 PD .32 H&R Magnum. I also put the Crimson Trace laser grips on this gun. The hard poly, not rubber version. Fits real nice in the Nemesis pocket holster from Desanti. Good for left handed shooting while riding the Harley (right hand on throttle). Not that it will ever happen, but it did help justify the cost of the laser grips. Ha ha.. That gun is right at home in a front jean pocket or inside pocket of a leather vest. A good bar gun. Not that I condone carrying guns in bars. That would just be irresponsible of course. But if I were to do it, that would be the gun
    The two loudest sounds known to man: a gun that goes bang when it is supposed to go click and a gun that goes click when it is supposed to go bang.

  8. #8
    RMK
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    Default The 30 is a perfect gun for me

    I have the full size model 21, and I have a model 30 for consealed carry.

    As an earlier post mentioned, the big magazine from the 21 with also fit the 30. (it just hangs out the bottom) Glocks are very tough, and they are simple with minimal parts.

    Murphy is spot on with his position on fine motor skill requirements. They go right out the window in high stress. I've never cared for guns with de-cocking levers, or an external safety. (it's why I got rid of my Smith and Wesson when Glock came out with their compact models)

    The Glock is an excellent choice. If you like the .45 round, either the 30, or the single stack 36 will do well for you. The only change I made, was replacing the bottom plate of the magazine with an extender to make the grip fit all three fingers.


  9. #9

    Default Glock 30 comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Oneriver View Post
    Most times I just read and stalk but....

    regarding the subject matter of this thread, I feel I do have standing to make a contribution.

    But before doing so I feel the need to qualify my position and level of experience regarding the subject matter. I'm just approaching that 50 year old point in life, been around just about long enough to know that I don't know everything, maybe just long enough to have learned a thing or two.

    Been shooting/handling firearms since my teens and carried one as a law man (both local uniformed and Federal Agent) for the past 30 years. Past ten plus years have been as a Firearms Instructor for the fed agency I work for. That position has exposed me to shooting with, observing and training many types of people of all sizes. Most importantly to this thread many of those people I've trained have been women who started out thier career in law enforcement without ever having held a firearm. As the agency has progressed I've trained people in several types of handguns. Done the revolver thing, double action only Sig 228, Glock 23 (40 cal) to name a few. I've personally carried a Kimber 1911 and a Sig 220 .45 auto, which is a single stack mag, carried a Para-Ordinance double stack 45 auto which is a fat 1911. I am a certified Glock Armour. And for a my retirement years I personally have chosen the Glock 30 45 auto and had it Mag-na-ported. That gun will be buried with me some day in the coffin.

    So, what have I learned that might be of pertinence to this thread. Couple things actually. First, a single stack magazine requires substantially different street tactics than that of a double stack magazine. I've participated and taught many Hogan's Alley training environments, interior versions of Hogan's Alleys, done the Simunitions training (a type of Paint-ball course that affords non-lethal live fire training) and can fully attest to the fact that single stack magazines require a much greater attention to counting rounds during the stress of a gun fight than do double stackers. A shooter needs to be constantly aware of the Tactical Magazine swap or run the risk of shooting dry. That one issue dictates tactics, influences the thought process and risk management decisions that are required to win gun fights.

    Second, the original poster was basically asking the question of what would be a handgun that his minimally experienced spouse could use, achieve some level of competency with a minimal amount of trigger time, and still obtain proficiency. I submit the 1911 as a single action handgun is not the best choice for that application. Manually pulling the hammer back takes far too much precious time. Cocked and locked requires a person to do "something" to make the gun fire. That "something" is called a fine motor function and in times of stress, (like engaging in a gunfight) fine motor skills are first to disapate from the body. For the inexperienced shooter you'll want point a shoot capability. That means double action on at least the first round. No "something" required, except to pull back on the trigger.

    The Glock Action Trigger affords the same pull of the trigger on the first round, thoughout the magazine and to the last round. This consistency aids the new shooter and affords a quicker development of confidence. The trigger pull is designed such that, with proper training it is possible to accurately rapid fire with 7-8 pieces of brass in the air at one time. Obviously this technique is directed toward the advanced shooter but certainly combat accuracy is achievable at this rapid speed.

    Tupperware guns, water pistols, all the other enduring names the nay-sayers have toward the Glock handgun tend to slander the lethality of the Glock. Granted the Glock will never approach the beautiful workmanship of the Colt 1911 or the silky smooth trigger of the Kimber. It's not designed to. It's not built with the attention to hand-fitting detail that the machined 1911 is built with. I personally can admire the look and feel of a finely built, highly detailed weapon but that does not mean it has to be finely detailed to excel in a gun fight. The Glock is designed to win gun fights. (period)

    Some Glock features/issues folks might not be aware of:

    Tenifer Coating: The black film that coats the weapon surface, resistent to rust, nearly as hard as Diamond. Not just blueing.

    Polymer Frame: Plastic does not rust folks.

    Trigger Groups: Ability to swap internal parts to modify the trigger pull without significant hand honing / fitting of components.

    Interchangability of magazines and barrels, within certain groups of Glock Models.

    __________________

    author unknown to me......oneriver

    The original author of this post would be me.....

    Murphy, my own personal G-30 wears a Magna-ported barrel. This little weapon is a different gun to shoot when fully loaded vs when firing that last or second to the last round due to the stabilizing weight factor. Magna-porting tends to level out the playing field for muzzle flip. When I shoot my handguns I wear ear muffs so noise and blast are never and issue, which I find is the main objection to porting a barrel. I don't wear my ear muffs when I have gun fights but in life there are trade-offs.

    As for ammo, that Cor-Bon +P 225 grain fills the magazine nicely for me.
    Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for the shadow is mine and so is the valley. Thy Glock and thy M14 comfort me in days of civil unrest and terror

  10. #10
    RMK
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    Default I never really noticed the gun getting lighter

    I'm not going to refute the claim that gun handles differently, but I will say I have never noticed. I shoot a range qualification twice a year with my 21, and my 30. Oddly enough, I shot the exact same score this fall with both weapons.

    Either the lightening of the gun isn't affecting me, or it effects me the same on both.

    It's an interesting point nonetheless. I will pay attention on my next trip to the range.

    Have you shot your ported gun in the dark? I was wondering if the openings cause greater muzzle flash that can be an issue for night time shooting.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMK View Post
    I'm not going to refute the claim that gun handles differently, but I will say I have never noticed. I shoot a range qualification twice a year with my 21, and my 30. Oddly enough, I shot the exact same score this fall with both weapons.

    Either the lightening of the gun isn't affecting me, or it effects me the same on both.

    It's an interesting point nonetheless. I will pay attention on my next trip to the range.

    Have you shot your ported gun in the dark? I was wondering if the openings cause greater muzzle flash that can be an issue for night time shooting.
    I think he is referring to the recoil signature of the gun changing as it gives up several ounces of weight. Six or eight ounces is a significant percentage of total loaded weight and it does make a difference with the light weight guns in heavy calibers. This doesn't mean you can't shoot well with the gun just that recoil changes as weight is lost. The porting tends to hold the muzzle down and will keep the muzzle flip more constant regardless of weight or grip strength. Consistent grip is another issue in shooting them all in the middle and with heavier calibers, it is more important. One of the reasons I dislike magna porting is that it tends to make me a lazy shooter and hides my screw-ups at the range. It does make it easier for me to hit consistently in center but I can get spoiled easily with it.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  12. #12

    Default Yup, what he said

    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    I think he is referring to the recoil signature of the gun changing as it gives up several ounces of weight. Six or eight ounces is a significant percentage of total loaded weight and it does make a difference with the light weight guns in heavy calibers. This doesn't mean you can't shoot well with the gun just that recoil changes as weight is lost. The porting tends to hold the muzzle down and will keep the muzzle flip more constant regardless of weight or grip strength. Consistent grip is another issue in shooting them all in the middle and with heavier calibers, it is more important. One of the reasons I dislike magna porting is that it tends to make me a lazy shooter and hides my screw-ups at the range. It does make it easier for me to hit consistently in center but I can get spoiled easily with it.
    Murphy your analysis is spot on regarding my comments about weight loaded and unloaded. Another reason the Glock platform offers a tactical advantage is the axis of the barrel sits so low over the hand's grip, but the mass weight differences are more pronounced in these light weight guns.

    "it tends to make me a lazy shooter and hides my screw-ups at the range. It does make it easier for me to hit consistently in center but I can get spoiled easily with it."


    I wasn't talking about going to the prom, I was talking about winning gun fights. Loosing is just not an acceptable outcome. Murphy, you ARE the excepted authority on firearms in this forum but with all due respect I do not quite understand how, why, or who would be concerned about anything except giving themselves an advantage in a gun fight. I can honestly say I'd work on my form flaws after the demons subsided post gun fight. The emotional component to surviving such an event is huge.

    Regarding the prior gentleman's question (RMK) about night-time firing, yes sir you are correct that Magna-Porting produces a lot of instantaneous light immediately above the barrel. Yes it is very noticable at the range at dusk or in the evening. But partner, at the moment of truth when the gun fight starts I suggest a shooter wants to deliver as much lead downrange to the threat as possible. That means muzzle control parrallel to the ground. After the first or second shot most of the shooting is instinctive anyway, there isn't much in the use of sights. The old FBI statistics of the "average" gun fight being less than 3 seconds in duration and at a distance of less than 21 feet means that there really isn't much need for the reload thing, that it's over pretty quick and the main thing is to keep your eye on the main thing. That is; quick decisive action along the lines of "it's better to GIVE than to RECEIVE".

    RMK, I too own the Glock 21 and the Glock 30. Both good weapons. Glock 21 is an excellent uniform weapon while the Glock 30 is better suited to concealment. And yes the Glock SF's and in particular the new RTF finish is excellent for sticking to your hands.

    Finally, the Surefire rail mounted light with the grip switch is a huge tactical accessory for all my Glocks.
    Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for the shadow is mine and so is the valley. Thy Glock and thy M14 comfort me in days of civil unrest and terror

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    What I mean by that getting spoiled is for shooting other guns, calibers, etc and I tend to develop a feel and technique with the ported guns, then since I shoot many non-ported guns, for fun and profit, my scores there would suffer.

    Certainly in a gun fight I'd cheat like an SOB any way I can and would use any means to do it. A favorite tactic is to shoot quick, shoot straight and shoot often. No doubt a ported gun would help but some of my world is just fun and games and honestly I still do OK with standard issue pistols. I don't shoot the El Presidente in under five anymore but can make the bad guys keep their heads down.

    I think what excited me most about the G30 was the SF configuration. Giving up a little girth (on the gun not me, even though I'm trying to slim, myself) gives me a better grip and makes the 45 caliber Glock point better than it ever has. All the good stuff I want in a gun comes together for me with just this little bit of slimming down. I haven't shot it yet but am confident that it will be what was missing with the model 21. I have a 20SF and it is much better for me to maintain a good consistent grip and with full power 10mm loads. I am looking forward to wringing out the G30.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  14. #14
    RMK
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    Default Great comments

    Thanks for the insight Ex1811. I wasn't so concerned that magna-porting would make front sight acquisition hard, as it would make even target recognition hard. (temporarily night blindness from the flash)

    Any night/low light shooting is pretty difficult IMO. I've done a few few range shoots using vehicle lights, a sure fire flashlight, and no light at all.

    Glock announced the "SF" models about six months after I bought my 30. I think I would have preferred the new frame. I guess I can always add to the collection.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by RMK View Post
    Glock announced the "SF" models about six months after I bought my 30. I think I would have preferred the new frame. I guess I can always add to the collection.
    Another option is to shorten the frame you presently own. Sounds radical, I know, but it can be done......check out Robar.com Those boys can give re-birth to Glocks.

    My Glock 21 is the SF model and admittedly it I like it better than the full sized frame.
    Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for the shadow is mine and so is the valley. Thy Glock and thy M14 comfort me in days of civil unrest and terror

  16. #16
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    My 21 is the "standard" but I have a new 20 in the SF version. Noticeable difference. I think the grip diameter is reduced about 3/8 of an inch with the SF. I like that so ordered the G30 as an SF also. I also opted for the tritium sights.

    I had hold of a very small GAP a couple days ago, I think it was a model 39. Eight shot, I think. This ankle holster size is cute and cuddly but with the SF in 45 ACP I think this will further dampen sales of the GAP caliber. The GAP model 38 with the 4.02" barrel is the size of the G30 with its 3.8" barrel. The grip frames are about the same. I think the GAP is a dead caliber but it is a very efficient ballistic package and still the right bore size for a defensive pistol.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  17. #17
    Member marshall's Avatar
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    Interesting thread.

    I've tried to jump on the Glock band wagon, the price is right but they just don't feel right in my hand. Shooting the 20, 21, 23 and 26 the trigger guard kills my strong hand middle finger knuckle. I was hoping for a good fit because I would like a reliable low cost weather resistant full size 10mm.

    I guess I'll look for a rental 20sf model and put a few rounds down range to see if the changes work for me. I have a size 11 hand, I don't think that's a problem. I was thinking the grip angle is wierd or perhaps the trigger guard is to bulky.

    I supose it's what ever you get used to, I carry a H&K USP 40S&W or a CZ 97 BD 45acp.

  18. #18
    RMK
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    Default A Glock for all seasons

    Tomorrow I pick up my 36. That completes the set. I already have a model 21, and a model 30. Now I have a .45 for all occasions. Here is a photo of the difference in the back strap from a "standard" to the "SF."
    Attached Images Attached Images

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMK View Post
    Tomorrow I pick up my 36. That completes the set. I already have a model 21, and a model 30. Now I have a .45 for all occasions. Here is a photo of the difference in the back strap from a "standard" to the "SF."
    There isn't much difference in them. And I think I meant circumference above, not diameter. I tried to measure around the grips, (circumference, right?) This is the dimension that matters, so the fingers have slightly less to wrap around!?

    Anyway, you should collect a couple of 45 GAPs, those are still 45's. I have a lot of Starline brass for the GAP and can find it easily. There is very little ammo of any kind on the shelf, around here, but I find it much more difficult find 10 MM ammo than GAP ammo. I think there are a half dozen PD's and State Patrols that have adapted the GAP model 37 or 38 so it likely will be with us for a while. Remember how we thought the Forty would never be anything?
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    Remember how we thought the Forty would never be anything?
    Well no, I went from what is it to wish I had thought of it. FBI picked it up in 1990 and that’s when I thought what’s that. City of Phoenix ordered 500 units for testing in 91 and I thought testing 500 says something about it. Then when they signed a contract for something like 30K units less than 3 month later I went into "Boy I wish I had thought of that." So I guess perception depends on vantage point and living in a cop family in Arizona gave me a different vantage point.

    Forty took off like a house on fire in Arizona and never slowed down mostly because of some very bad field performance issues Phoenix PD had with 9mm. All through the late 80s Phoenix cops were issued a Glock in 9mm but most packed S&W 4506 45s they bought on their own or went back to 357s trying to get some stopping ability.
    Andy
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