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Thread: Ahh Firearms import laws, stupiditiy

  1. #1
    Member rimfirematt's Avatar
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    Default Ahh Firearms import laws, stupiditiy

    So im flipping through the Glock catolog and holly cow there is a 380 glock. The Glock 28. Why in the world havent I heard of this thing? This ought to be as big as the ruger LCP!

    Well here is the scoop: (I copied this )

    The Glock 25 and 28 (.380 ACP) do not qualify for import, because they do not score enough "points" on the ATF's arbitrary system.

    In order to be eligible for import, a gun must score at least 75 points, based on the following criteria:

    Length: 1 point for each 1/4 inch over 6 inches.
    Forged steel frame: 15 points
    Forged HTS alloy frame: 20 points
    Unloaded weight (w/mag): 1 point per ounce.
    .22 short or .25 auto: 0 points
    .22 LR and 7.65 mm to .380 auto: 3 points
    9mm parabellum and over: 10 points
    Locked breech mechanism: 5 points
    Loaded chamber indicator: 5 points
    Grip safety: 3 points
    Magazine safety: 5 points
    Firing pin block or lock: 10 points
    External hammer: 2 points
    Double action: 10 points
    Drift adjustable target sight: 5 points
    Click adjustable target sight: 10 points
    Target grips: 5 points
    Target trigger: 2 points.

    I dont understand this system at all. So a gun like the LCP is fine to make in country but not to import? What does it matter if they are made here or not?

    And then look at there criteria. Target grips? who makes that call? Why would a gun get less points for smaller calibers?

    ASSININE

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    G-U-N-C-O-N-T-R-O-L


    The criteria is supposed to limit the number of "Saturday Night Special" type handguns entering the country.

    In reality it is another example of governmental subversive gun control. Limit the amount of smaller easily concealed handguns accessible to Joe Public by regulating what is allowed into the country.

  3. #3
    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    I'm surprised Glock has not opened a plant in the US to get past the stupid import laws like FN and some others have.
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  4. #4
    RMK
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    Default It seems like Goofy Logic

    Why worry about limiting the .380 caliber Glocks when you can go buy any number of other "pocket Glocks?" I own a Glock 30.

    It's easily concealable, yet still holds 10 + 1. Eleven rounds of .45 ACP is pretty good for such a small gun. The Glock 36 (single stack) is even easier to conceal although it has less capacity.

    I have never looked in to getting a .380 caliber Glock, but I know you can buy the .40 cal, the 9mm, and the .45 in the compact versions.

    I guess if they were trying to target the cheap Saturday night specials, the .380 may just be caught in a loophole. It still strikes me as goofy.

    I prefer a .45 anyway.

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    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    If Glock can talk the DoD out of an external safety (and decocker?) for their pistol specs they might win a supply contract to replace the M9, which will give them a reason to build a US plant.

    Skip over all the import malarky.

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    Member Diesel Nut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Ray View Post
    If Glock can talk the DoD out of an external safety (and decocker?) for their pistol specs they might win a supply contract to replace the M9, which will give them a reason to build a US plant.

    Skip over all the import malarky.
    I hear what you're saying, and as an end-user of the product I fervently pray it NEVER happens. No function or reliability concerns, but the stupid grip-angle is simply incompatible with my (and many others) hands. I know we'll never go back to a 1911-derivitive as a standard issue sidearm, but there are other options out there (the XD and M&P series come to mind) that still combine a decent round count of 45 ACP with a manageable (and adjustable) grip diameter and trigger reach.

  7. #7
    RMK
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    Default The New Glocks Are Different

    The latest generation of Glocks feature the "SF" model. I've been told that it stands for "short frame" and I've been told it stands for "slim frame."

    I'm not sure which is correct, but the grip is a little different as is the trigger reach. It is also supposed to make the mag release button easier to reach for smaller hands.

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    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel Nut View Post
    ....but the stupid grip-angle is simply incompatible with my (and many others) hands.......
    This is the one reason I never bought one. I could never get comfortable holding them. The little single stacks are nearly as bad feeling as the double stacks, but still never bought one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel Nut View Post
    I know we'll never go back to a 1911-derivitive as a standard issue sidearm,
    I'm not so sure of that. There are more and more 1911s sinking back in, M14s are also sinking into the mix in larger number. Now they ask for bids on a .45 with stipulations that sound very like an updated 1911. Who knows what they will take in the end but I would not be shocked if it was based off a 1911. However keeping the M4 as is even though most say the 9mm is too light would not shock me ether. I think the wise thing would be a 1911 based modern double stack auto in 40S&W or 10mm, get stopping power, firepower, and similar function all at once. But how often do they do the wise thing in the government.
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    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel Nut View Post
    ...I know we'll never go back to a 1911-derivitive as a standard issue sidearm...
    The other week I watched part of a shooting show and the host was explaining why there are so many M&P type .45 autos on the market right now. A couple of years ago the DoD requested that makers submit weapons that met a set of requirements around the .45ACP. Everyone that makes anything like a 1911 submitted on the contract. Everyone but Glock since they think their trigger safety is all anyone needs and are willing to talk DoD into it. The contract was never let and the makers are now selling those models on the open market.

    Someone at DoD will eventually break away from NATO ammo standards and go back to what works well.

  11. #11
    Moderator hunt_ak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMK View Post
    The latest generation of Glocks feature the "SF" model. I've been told that it stands for "short frame" and I've been told it stands for "slim frame."

    I'm not sure which is correct, but the grip is a little different as is the trigger reach. It is also supposed to make the mag release button easier to reach for smaller hands.
    It is short frame. The grip circumference is smaller and the 'meat' was taken out of the backstrap, iirc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    I'm not so sure of that. There are more and more 1911s sinking back in, M14s are also sinking into the mix in larger number. Now they ask for bids on a .45 with stipulations that sound very like an updated 1911. Who knows what they will take in the end but I would not be shocked if it was based off a 1911. However keeping the M4 as is even though most say the 9mm is too light would not shock me ether. I think the wise thing would be a 1911 based modern double stack auto in 40S&W or 10mm, get stopping power, firepower, and similar function all at once. But how often do they do the wise thing in the government.
    The only people who will see single-action handguns like a 1911 are the operators who train and practice for a living. The standard issue sidearm for the rest of the military folk will almost certainly be a "safe action" or traditional double/single design. There simply is not enough time available for training people to safely load, carry and clear a single-action auto. Hell, I see people do stupid stuff with the Beretta, and it's about as foolproof to operate as a handgun can get.

    The 40 S&W and 10mm rounds are not recognized by NATO, and as such would be an additional stumbling block to a new platform. The US Government doesn't have a plant that loads either of those cartridges, which is another issue. The 45ACP however is still NATO recognized, and Uncle Sugar loads tons of ammo for it every year. If we ever go away from the 9mm, the only logical choice at the moment is 45ACP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel Nut View Post
    The only people who will see single-action handguns like a 1911 are the operators who train and practice for a living. The standard issue sidearm for the rest of the military folk will almost certainly be a "safe action" or traditional double/single design. There simply is not enough time available for training people to safely load, carry and clear a single-action auto. Hell, I see people do stupid stuff with the Beretta, and it's about as foolproof to operate as a handgun can get.

    True but there are a lot of cool things built around the 1911 now days. Double stacks, double action, double action only even like the new Kimber compact. We will never see the 1911a come back but something that looks very similar would be no surprise to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel Nut View Post
    The 40 S&W and 10mm rounds are not recognized by NATO, and as such would be an additional stumbling block to a new platform. The US Government doesn't have a plant that loads either of those cartridges, which is another issue. The 45ACP however is still NATO recognized, and Uncle Sugar loads tons of ammo for it every year. If we ever go away from the 9mm, the only logical choice at the moment is 45ACP.

    Ya I know about the world politics hurdles and it’s a sad commentary on the state of our sovereignty as a nation. 45acp is much better than 9mm but the smart thing is the best of power and capacity that 40S&W or 10mm gives. I’ve always thought it a bit ridiculous to let countries we may someday be at war with dictate our armament. The rules like this are always dumped by the other side as soon as the fight starts leveling us at a disadvantage still complying. Germany and the treaty of Versailles comes to mind but it always happens to some extent.
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    Member The Kid's Avatar
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    Any of you guys remember those cheesy little adjustable rear sights on the first generation Glocks, ya the plastic ones that broke the first time you adjusted them. Well guess what those were there for, they were a stopgap measure, because a certain percentage of the guns they were importing needed those silly points on that checklist. Soooo... they quickly designed a "Click Adjustable Target Sight".

    Call me old fashioned, but I still prefer BoMars for my target shooting.

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    This is the result of the highly subjective, arbitrary and ill defined "sporting purposes" clause of the '68 GCA in which your typical low-wattage waffen BATFEces puke in an office cubicle can declare even a Glock product a "Saturday Night Special".
    Now what ?

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    Default How about the Wather PPK?

    The Walther PPK got caught in the ban too. It was an old design but probably the best of the day and certainly not a cheap Sat. Night Special by any accord. They made them later in the USA but they never had the quality and dependability of the fine German made guns.

    I've still got my '67 vintage German made .380 PPK - it is still one of my favorite pocket pistols but I usually carry something bigger in Alaska like my 329 PD.


    Quote Originally Posted by stevelyn View Post
    This is the result of the highly subjective, arbitrary and ill defined "sporting purposes" clause of the '68 GCA in which your typical low-wattage waffen BATFEces puke in an office cubicle can declare even a Glock product a "Saturday Night Special".
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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