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Thread: Halibut Commission proposes measures for Recreational Fishermen too!!

  1. #1
    Member AKCAPT's Avatar
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    Exclamation Halibut Commission proposes measures for Recreational Fishermen too!!

    Straight out of their latest meeting, Private boaters take notice, IPHC wants implement a program where you will need a harvest tag for every halibut you catch. This will allow them to "keep better records" of what you catch. You will also likely not be able to fillet our halibut until you get back to the dock any more....In fisheries management speak, you are on notice, they are looking more closely at your harvest and you will be seeing some changes in regulation in the future. Likely starting in Southeast Alaska.



    There was support in concept for the development of a harvest tag or ticket for improved data collection in all recreational halibut fisheries in Alaska and for accurate and timely accounting. The Commission will send letters to the NPFMC and the Alaska Department of Fish & Game acknowledging this support.

    The Commission received an industry proposal to change the Alaska sport fishing filleting requirements. Although the Commission took no action to change the regulations for 2010 they did direct the staff to form an industry and agency work group to review the regulations to determine if a regulation proposal could be develop for next year that met enforcement needs and assisted the industry.

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    Default It's internationalism at play

    For the amount of time I, as an independent fisherman, spend on K-Bay, and for the hit-n-miss of halibut fishing + weather, etc. we barely have enough halibut to make it through the winter at 2 per day. I'm betting they are fixing to reduce private catch to 1 fish as well.

    If this comes about, I forsee lack of forthrightness in reporting, hidden compartments, etc. Not saying I'm gonna do that... just saying...

  3. #3
    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Thumbs down New regs

    Yeah I have heard a few stories in years past from some people who had broken the laws I am sure this would make it worse.
    I used to work with a guy who claimed he and his uncle would harvest double limits and them have their wifes meet them at the dock to claim their limit. I just wish I could have caught him doing it but I only saw them down there once and they were headed back without fish due to mechanicals.
    Yeah I have to agree about the limited time to fish. Even with a 2x2 schedule it can be hard to match everyone else's schedule with the weather and halfway decent tides.
    I have a few friends with subsistence halibut cards for Cook Inlet/Kodiak and I have helped them harvest their halibut several times. I wonder how this will affect them? It also makes me wonder If more people will Cheat/lie to get a subsistence card to keep their harvest levels up?
    I am guessing there are probably at least a couple of people who have already lied about their primary residence I often wonder if they ever try to verify such things?
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

    "Fishing and Hunting are only an addiction if you're trying to quit"

  4. #4

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    I think that more than a few of us have been warning about these things. Lots of people were willing to sacrifice the charter fishermen in SE, but they opened the door for further regulations on themselves.

    In my opinion, until they get halibut subsistence under control in SE AK, they will be pissing up a rope with these "tags".

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    Default

    They will never quit until there is nothing but a com fishery in AK, politics and money. God help us.

  6. #6

    Default

    It won't be long before we'll be hearing about how the regular non-charter sportsmen are "grossly" exceeding the "sport" GHL. 1 fish limit, size limits, in season closures, etc..

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    Default A "Nice service"

    But the commercial guys provide such a "nice service" in providing healthy halibut to the residents of the lower 48 states!

    The real plan is to do away with the commercial fishermen also and make it a governement ran or directed business with "fair" distrubution to all - the commercial guys just don't realize what is in store for them - yet. Just wait until a bad year or two and feds with step in with "aid" like they did with GM and the banks.

    If you don't believe me just wait and watch - it is on the way if the direction we are now headed in continues.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fear Knot View Post
    They will never quit until there is nothing but a com fishery in AK, politics and money. God help us.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Default trends do not support this position

    Quote Originally Posted by Fear Knot View Post
    They will never quit until there is nothing but a com fishery in AK, politics and money. God help us.
    Maybe God is helping to keep food flowing to the majority of the people - just kidding - God has better things to do.

    One premise in this thread is that sportfisherman are being driven out of Ak by commercial interestes. However, when I look at the data I see just the opposite, at least in a majority of the fisheries.

    Lets take the salmon fishery. Between PU and sport fish harvest in UCI for example the sport fish allocation has increased significantly over the last 30 years. Today, over 500,000 sockeye salmon are harvested in these fisheries, most pink, chum, coho, and chinook bypass the commercial salmon fishery and make it into the rivers for sport fisherman. These are not unsupported claims - one only has to look at the data.

    In BB and PWS and other areas the sport fish salmon harvest is growing and by definition a reallocation to sport fish interests is taking place.

    The halibut discussion is interesting because the sport fish harvest was growing percentage wise and in some areas the GHL was exceeded. While there is a push back from commercial fisherman I suspect the upward trend will continue over time. New regulations and allocation plans will benifit sport fisherman in the long run.

    So when I look at the State of Alaska I see an upward trend in the fish allocation percentages for sport and PU fisherman and while there are dips the overall trend is positive. Not sure why everyone seems to think otherwise. Maybe short term thinking or impacts is causing the misrepresentation of the trend.

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    Default

    Nerka, I think it is hard to compare issues like the Kenai River and the Valley salmon issues ( which I know little about) and the issue of halibut allocation and managment.

    I agree that there has been the trend in 2C of increased charter harvest at the cost of the commercial sector. The problem I have is when the staff biologist reccomendations call for a 26% reduction in the commercial harvest and then the IPHC commissionors decide that 12% ought to do...If there is a conservation concern where biologists say catch less fish then why would their suggestion not be taken at face value. Combine that with the idea that the Charter fleet is catching so many fish that the commercial industry is concerned about conservation of the resource yet when the bioloigists say cut your catch by 26%, there is not THAT much of a conservation concern that those 14% of the fish don't really matter.
    On top of that the commercail industry was urging IPHC to take further action to curtail the harvest of the charter fleet. It just is not a cohesive argument.

    If the commercial sector said, we agree with the biologists ( since they are supposted to know what they are doing) and we will take the cut to rebuild the stock AND in doing that we insist that the charter fleet stay within their allocation or face in season restrictions - Then I would not doubt the motives of the commercail industry but when you ask to further restrict the charter industry in the wrong venue for that and then ask you more fish than you are supposed to catch....it smells a little fishy....

    Certainly not saying that commercial fishermen are bad, just that the whole argument at the IPHC level, does not reasonate with honesty and dedication to the health of the resource....

  10. #10
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    Default allocation not conservation.

    After following this thread for months it is obvious to me this is an allocation debate not a conservation debate. User groups always use conservation as a reason for an allocation. For some reason they seem to think making it a conservation issue makes a better case. I tend to disagree. If they are honest and state this is purely allocation of a fixed resource then they have a stronger case. So I do not buy the idea that the halibut issue is conservation based.

    Let me explain this better. Conservation issues should be addressed by managers of the resource. Therefore, if the GHL was exceeded by the charter fleet to the point it threatens stock productivity then the managers should be taking action much faster than they are - in truth either the political process is getting in the way or the conservation concern is not that intense.

    I will give you an example. We are in a mess in Cook Inlet with beluga whales on the endangered species list. That was due to overharvest by all accounts. The NMFS has responsibility for management and they failed not the native hunters. Now if the natives put pressure via Ted Stevens to keep NMFS from closing or restricting the hunts they have some responsibility but the NMFS still should have said no to Ted, regardless of the budget implications. They sold out in allowing the hunts to proceed at a level that could not be sustained.

    Relative to the charter allocation and GHL the same pattern appears to be in play. Not with Ted but with other interest groups causing a slow down in reaction time. If it is a conservation concern the federal government has the power to act more quickly. Numerous federal laws give them this authority.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    I will give you an example. We are in a mess in Cook Inlet with beluga whales on the endangered species list. That was due to overharvest by all accounts. The NMFS has responsibility for management and they failed not the native hunters. Now if the natives put pressure via Ted Stevens to keep NMFS from closing or restricting the hunts they have some responsibility but the NMFS still should have said no to Ted, regardless of the budget implications. They sold out in allowing the hunts to proceed at a level that could not be sustained.

    Relative to the charter allocation and GHL the same pattern appears to be in play. Not with Ted but with other interest groups causing a slow down in reaction time. If it is a conservation concern the federal government has the power to act more quickly. Numerous federal laws give them this authority.
    How is Ted Stevens still involved? I thought he went quietly into the night after losing out to Begich. Am I wrong with this Nerka or were you using Ted as an example of how it was bungled in the past?

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    Default

    I will bet their quota will be even greater next year with approx 40% of the charter fleet gone. There won't be less halibut caught in total, there is just more being caught by one group at the expense of another. This definately looks like politics and money at it's finest and not about conservation. Not surprising at all.

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    When crap like this goes on it gets very hard for me to feel sorry for this user group! There is NO excuse for this. The charter fleet does not waste like this yet they are getting squeezed. You cant justify that to me. WHen they clean this up then its time to talk about cutting the charter fleet. I am sure this is not an isolated occurance. To me there is no greater crime that wasting a fish or game animal. and this is waste at its worst.
    http://tholepin.blogspot.com/2009/10...but-waste.html

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    Default

    It is definately sad that such waste isn't addressed. You never hear about anyone attacking them, but they'll be all over the charter boats in a second. I'm sure someone will chime in that the bycatch is figured in their overall quota, (bet it's accurate too?????) regardless of how it's figured it should be illegal but the com guys got the money and the political backing for practices such as this to continue. They are forcing the small guy out, that's what it is going to come down to when it's all said and done.

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    Default interesting link

    HUGE FILE, I'm looking for a better link Second link to council webpage is better, the one below didn't agree with my adobe version.
    http://www.fakr.noaa.gov/npfmc/analy...tPSCmod210.pdf

    http://www.fakr.noaa.gov/npfmc/
    Look under "in the news" on the far right, and then click on the link to the PDF article. Link is titled Modifying GOA Halibut PSC I think.
    Interesting reading about Halibut Prohibited Species Caps in the Gulf Of Alaska, and how it is currently in the council process.

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    Default past not present

    Quote Originally Posted by penguin View Post
    How is Ted Stevens still involved? I thought he went quietly into the night after losing out to Begich. Am I wrong with this Nerka or were you using Ted as an example of how it was bungled in the past?

    I was speaking of the past but believe me there will always be a Ted Stevens type to take his place. Lisa fits the bill and Mark B is too new to tell.

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    Default First the individual...

    The liberal progressive socialists will destroy the small guys first then go after the remaining big guys - it is all part of their plans. Who would have ever though the govt. would be part of GM and telling them who to fire and hire?

    Here we are fighting against each other while the real enemy sits back and laughts at us. We need to resolve our own issues between us and tell the feds and internationaists to butt out. Unfortuately it isn't going to happen so we are both going down one at a time.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fear Knot View Post
    It is definately sad that such waste isn't addressed. You never hear about anyone attacking them, but they'll be all over the charter boats in a second. I'm sure someone will chime in that the bycatch is figured in their overall quota, (bet it's accurate too?????) regardless of how it's figured it should be illegal but the com guys got the money and the political backing for practices such as this to continue. They are forcing the small guy out, that's what it is going to come down to when it's all said and done.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Default how about posting this somewhere else

    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    The liberal progressive socialists will destroy the small guys first then go after the remaining big guys - it is all part of their plans. Who would have ever though the govt. would be part of GM and telling them who to fire and hire?

    Here we are fighting against each other while the real enemy sits back and laughts at us. We need to resolve our own issues between us and tell the feds and internationaists to butt out. Unfortuately it isn't going to happen so we are both going down one at a time.
    How about posting this on the general forum so we do not go into the ditch with the name calling and black helicopter stuff.

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