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Thread: Ruger vs Buffalo Bore

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    Default Ruger vs Buffalo Bore

    Enjoy!

    Me, I wont shoot it so Im safe
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Member 1Cor15:19's Avatar
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    Gee, that looks like it may have been pretty, sort of like a fireworks show when it came apart. I hope the owner at least sold tickets to the show. Seriously, I hope no one had anything more hurt than their pride.

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    I'm curious as to the load and the revolver.

    Looks like what "was" the cylinder from a .44mag. 4 5/8ths" SBH.


    Bettin' BB blames it on the gun though...

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    So the loads from Double Tap are safe as well? The .357 loads are about the same with BB and DT...... So what load was that?

    Ron

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    Default Ruger vs Buffalo Bore and no one wins!

    Quote Originally Posted by GrassLakeRon View Post
    So the loads from Double Tap are safe as well? The .357 loads are about the same with BB and DT...... So what load was that?

    Ron
    It's not necessarily the heat of the load or double charge. Did you read the other thread where the 460S&W BB cases were too long? I think the resulting bottleneck of the case extending past the chamber was swaging the bullet. He was blowing the primers out, getting brass flow at the case heads, and having to pound the cases out with a hammer and dowel. That one sure sounded like very poor case prep was the cause of the pressure.

    Hay Ken what caliber was it and what does the frame look like?
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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    As long as we want handguns to do rifle work these things will happen. My BB in 454 is gone but shot fine and still no problem with the 357mag and 45/70.Of course when its gone that will be it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildalaska View Post
    Enjoy!

    Me, I wont shoot it so Im safe
    So what is the story here? Pics with no explanation only lead to speculation.

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    I tried to shoot BB in a Ruger 454 but 4 of the first 6 wouldn't fire so I bailed on their product. I called them and they blamed the Ruger for having a weak spring, funny that Grizzly, Corbon and my reloads shot just fine.

    After close inspection I noticed their primers were not fully seated and a few were tilted in the pocket. They would fire after several trigger pulls, the strike was seating the cup.

    I would stay away from their crap in any caliber. Piss poor quality control across the board, bad write ups galore. Search this site and they pop up with problems everywhere.
    Last edited by marshall; 02-01-2010 at 21:32. Reason: typo

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    Member GrassLakeRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    It's not necessarily the heat of the load or double charge. Did you read the other thread where the 460S&W BB cases were too long? I think the resulting bottleneck of the case extending past the chamber was swaging the bullet. He was blowing the primers out, getting brass flow at the case heads, and having to pound the cases out with a hammer and dowel. That one sure sounded like very poor case prep was the cause of the pressure.

    Hay Ken what caliber was it and what does the frame look like?

    I have seen inconsistent powder charges on BB and DT over the years. I now load my own "HOT" loads. I one time a box from DT not load due to improper length and not load because the cases were dented from the factory. I had 3 boxes all have flyers so much I sent the rest back. If you want quality or quantity something will loose out in the end. Just my 2 cents......

    Ron

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    I dont have the whole storyu, it was a 44 SBH. It went boom.

    I now add another Buffalo bore to my list of booms, along with Wolf, Gary's Bullets, those "loaders" down in Kenai, Tikka.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildalaska View Post
    .... Gary's Bullets.......
    Is he still alive and pulling a press arm?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrassLakeRon View Post
    I have seen inconsistent powder charges on BB and DT over the years. I now load my own "HOT" loads. I one time a box from DT not load due to improper length and not load because the cases were dented from the factory. I had 3 boxes all have flyers so much I sent the rest back. If you want quality or quantity something will loose out in the end. Just my 2 cents......

    Ron
    Yup, anyplace that cranks out hot rounds for cheap like they are flat washers is downright spooky and that's why I load mine also. Never used any Double Tap myself so won't comment on them. CorBon is what I buy for hot ammo if I need to, so far they have been top rung but so is their price. I would not comment on BB if they made the slightest attempt at customer service, but junk product plus rude lack of standing behind their product makes me hopping mad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    I would not comment on BB if they made the slightest attempt at customer service, but junk product plus rude lack of standing behind their product makes me hopping mad.
    RUDE is an understatement, he is a real Arse. I get along with just about anyone but he put me in fight mode in less than 3 seconds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildalaska View Post
    Enjoy!

    Me, I wont shoot it so Im safe
    I'm not doubting that the Ruger cylinder was destroyed by excessive pressure but I gotta say this. Buffalo Bore ammo, though loaded hot by market demand, is NOT likely the culprit. I have shot enough BB, Corbon, DT and similar semi-custom makers ammo and have loaded hundreds of thousands of rounds in various handgun calibers for the past three decades to have a good idea of what works and what the limitations are for various powders. All three of the above named makers use the same powder for heavy magnum revolver loads. This powder is H110 (made in Australia for Hodgdons and also marketed as Olin 296. It is impossible to get enough of that powder in a case to disassemble a Ruger cylinder such as is shown in this picture. It was another powder!! I am not defending BB or any other ammo maker. It could have been a screw up at the loaders facility and used a much quicker burning powder, I cannot say. That would be blunderous in ineptitudes and hard to even fathom. All the heavy loads I have pulled form the case made by Federal, Corbon, Double Tap, Buffalo Bore for the 44 mag, 45 Colt, 454 and 41 mag wee all loaded with what looks, smelled and burned (reloaded in know quantities in other calibers and chronographed) very much like the mentioned powder. In short it was that powder.

    I have personally known several people who damaged guns with poor loading practices. More than half of them later blamed it on something other than what it really was, generally factory ammo. This notorious H110 powder is by its general nature erratic over temperature ranges and sensitive to good primer fire. Loads with it will give the best performance (consistent velocity) only with heavy bullet pull, max pressure and good primer ignition.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Most all complaints so far against BB have been for not fireing. Now they are fireing to hard. I think all firearm and ammo makers put a clunker out there at times. To me the cylinder distruction should have been more equal on each side of the fired case

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    I'm not doubting that the Ruger cylinder was destroyed by excessive pressure but I gotta say this. Buffalo Bore ammo, though loaded hot by market demand, is NOT likely the culprit. I
    Sorry Murph, but the owner loaded the gun with Buffalo Bore and the photo is the result.

    Speculate as to how and why all you like but BB IS the culprit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildalaska View Post
    Sorry Murph, but the owner loaded the gun with Buffalo Bore and the photo is the result.

    Speculate as to how and why all you like but BB IS the culprit.
    Well, I'll take your word on that, no reason to doubt. What I'm saying is that the loads used to destroy the Ruger weren't loaded with BB's usual powder. Not the powder I've poured from the BB cases. The owner of this now defunct revolver should still have the remainder of the box of BB ammo. Could you obtain same from him and pull the bullets and weigh the powder charge. This is the first step in determining the real cause. I've done this several times, sometimes for lawyers, and found exact details of ingredients to determine a cause for such destructions. If you got the revolver with the damaging brass still in the cylinder, you'll need photos of the headstamps. (that's usually the only thing that remins.) Also as you know barrel obstructions are rather easy to determine. It seems you have the remains of the Ruger in your shop so an examination could begin soon.
    I presume the owner has or will contact BB ammo and lodge a complaint. Remember you have to save an undisturbed sample from the lot box of ammo, then pull a sample to examine. I guess I'm just from Missouri........show me!
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    He has the box. Lets see what BB does

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    The start of the failure appears to have taken place around the cylinder stop. I would then guess that the chamber with the loaded round gave some support of the pressure and the chamber with the fired round without the support gave way. It would be nice to know if the bullet traveled down the bore or misalignment due to expansion apond failure caused the bullet to plug against the forceing cone. I'm sure Ruger will figure it out

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    The start of the failure appears to have taken place around the cylinder stop. I would then guess that the chamber with the loaded round gave some support of the pressure and the chamber with the fired round without the support gave way. It would be nice to know if the bullet traveled down the bore or misalignment due to expansion apond failure caused the bullet to plug against the forceing cone. I'm sure Ruger will figure it out
    I have seen a number of cylinders that look just like that over the years. They tend to go more to one side than the other because the weak spot made by the locking detent cut. The cut is offset from the chamber, not centered like most think, and directs the force to one side or the other. This one looks like the frame top strap reinforced it just enough to keep part of the active chamber intact. Support from a loaded chamber has no effect, I have seen them go toward the full chamber and away depending on where the cut is made and cylinder rotation dictating which is loaded.

    Definitely the ammo and not obstruction in the barrel, unless the obstruction was in the forcing cone or very close.

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