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Thread: .358 Win or .35 Whelen

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    Default .358 Win or .35 Whelen

    I want a .35 caliber. I've done quite a bit of reading here and on other sites. I've narrowed it down to a .358 Win or a .35 Whelen. I've seen some good examples on here of .358 Win accuracy. Is the .35 Whelen just as accurate?

    I plan on using the rifle in the lower 48 mostly, but may be used here some.

    So far, I know the main advantage of .35 Whelen over .358 Win is the .35 Whelen factory ammo is more readily available. Some will say the .35 Whelen provides better distance. I probably won't shoot past 250-300 yards anyway, so I'm not sure this is a true advantage for me. I also know the Whelen will send the 250 gr bullets and up with more authority. Am I missing anything.

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    I've owned and used both and like both but my determining factor would be rifle weight or action type......the 358 can be built in a lighter, short action bolt rifle or can be had in a Savage 99......while the 35 Whelen requires a 06 length action....I recently picked up a 7600 Rem pump gun in 35 Whelen that is amazingly accurate .....

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    Quote Originally Posted by VernAK View Post
    I've owned and used both and like both but my determining factor would be rifle weight or action type......the 358 can be built in a lighter, short action bolt rifle or can be had in a Savage 99......while the 35 Whelen requires a 06 length action....I recently picked up a 7600 Rem pump gun in 35 Whelen that is amazingly accurate .....
    I did think about this. I like the Ruger .358 Win. I also looked at a Remington 700 in .35 Whelen today that I liked. I do like the shorter action, but it's not a deal breaker.

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    Also....What is the difference in recoil?

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    If both cartridges were fired from the same rifle at the same weight, the 35 Whelen will have some more felt recoil since it is pushing the same weight bullet a little faster along with a larger load of powder

    Now that being said, most 35 Whelens will weigh a little more due to the longer action. Also,,, the Whelen may like a little longer barrel so it can burn up the larger powder charge. A 22 inch 35 Whelen is just fine... where you could get away with a 20 inch with a 358 Win.
    So... the heavier recoil may not be that much of a factor by the time you add a little more rifle mass.

    Personally I think the 35 Whelen lends itself more to the heavier or longer bullets.
    If all I ever was going to shoot were 200 or 225 grain bullets the 358 Win is just fine.
    But for 250s or 275s (or even the very long 225 grain Nosler accubonds) the longer cased 35 Whelen is the way to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Float Pilot View Post
    If both cartridges were fired from the same rifle at the same weight, the 35 Whelen will have some more felt recoil since it is pushing the same weight bullet a little faster along with a larger load of powder

    Now that being said, most 35 Whelens will weigh a little more due to the longer action. Also,,, the Whelen may like a little longer barrel so it can burn up the larger powder charge. A 22 inch 35 Whelen is just fine... where you could get away with a 20 inch with a 358 Win.
    So... the heavier recoil may not be that much of a factor by the time you add a little more rifle mass.

    Personally I think the 35 Whelen lends itself more to the heavier or longer bullets.
    If all I ever was going to shoot were 200 or 225 grain bullets the 358 Win is just fine.
    But for 250s or 275s (or even the very long 225 grain Nosler accubonds) the longer cased 35 Whelen is the way to go.

    CHECK OUT THIS SITE:

    http://35cal.com/links.html
    Thanks. Good stuff. I can't see why I would need anything more than the 225's. I have a 45/70, 25-06, 6mm, and a .308 on the way. If I need something more than .225, I can go with the 45/70 or it would give me an excuse to start a thread on the merits of the .375 Ruger vs. the .375 H&H.

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    I own both and really like them both. The difference between them IMO is strictly what type of firearm a person wants to use. In a bolt action rifle I am just not crazy about the short action where the reality is you only save a few ounces so I'll take a Whelen in a bolt action every time. In a lever action there are limitations on COL and the shorter 358 Win makes sense. Of course the Whelen is available in Remington's pump and now their autoloader so there are more choices than simply a bolt action or lever.

    As far as differences in recoil or performance, they are similar to the 308 vs. 30/06. Gun weight and design will make more difference in recoil than the cartridge to which it is chambered, but if they are chambered in identical rifles and loaded to identical pressure the Whelen will produce more recoil. I have to say that their comparative mild recoil is the reason I am so fond of these two cartridges.

    Ammo is more available for the Whelen than the 358, but neither are close to being common. If you hunt out of state and lose your luggage in transit you may have difficulty in locating ammo for either of them. Both cartridges are a breeze to handload and both perform well with cup & core bullets. The Whelen and 358 use common parent brass, '06 & 308 respectively, and are well suited to a variety of powders. Float Pilot makes a good point about bullet weights, but there is nothing in NA that cannot be successfully hunted with a 225 grain .358 bullet at 2450 fps in the 358 so the difference is not earth shattering.

    I tend to think of the 358 as a 200 yard cartridge and the Whelen as a 250 yard cartridge, but that does not mean their bullets simply fall to the ground at those ranges. What I mean to say is that I'd just as soon use either of these cartridges on moose/bear out to these ranges as any other sub 375 H&H cartridge. Both of them are very effective. Regardless the cartridge you choose, I think you will be very satisfied. In fact you may decide the decision is too difficult and end up buying them both.

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    There's very little difference ballistics wise between a 225gr or a 250gr in a 358Win. With a 200yd zero you'll be an extra 1/2" high at 100yds and 1" lower at 300 yds with a 250gr bullet. As F.P. mentioned, the long boattails are an issue with the .358Win due to it's shorter cartridge.

    The slight increase in velocity with the Whelan always helps but I don't believe the difference makes that much difference.

    This cartridge is new to me though, I'm sure there are others who can be more definite with their experiences.

    If I were looking for a bolt, I'd get a Whelan. I was looking for a BLR and a .35 so I got a 358Win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Cor15:19 View Post
    I own both and really like them both. The difference between them IMO is strictly what type of firearm a person wants to use. In a bolt action rifle I am just not crazy about the short action where the reality is you only save a few ounces so I'll take a Whelen in a bolt action every time. In a lever action there are limitations on COL and the shorter 358 Win makes sense. Of course the Whelen is available in Remington's pump and now their autoloader so there are more choices than simply a bolt action or lever.

    As far as differences in recoil or performance, they are similar to the 308 vs. 30/06. Gun weight and design will make more difference in recoil than the cartridge to which it is chambered, but if they are chambered in identical rifles and loaded to identical pressure the Whelen will produce more recoil. I have to say that their comparative mild recoil is the reason I am so fond of these two cartridges.

    Ammo is more available for the Whelen than the 358, but neither are close to being common. If you hunt out of state and lose your luggage in transit you may have difficulty in locating ammo for either of them. Both cartridges are a breeze to handload and both perform well with cup & core bullets. The Whelen and 358 use common parent brass, '06 & 308 respectively, and are well suited to a variety of powders. Float Pilot makes a good point about bullet weights, but there is nothing in NA that cannot be successfully hunted with a 225 grain .358 bullet at 2450 fps in the 358 so the difference is not earth shattering.

    I tend to think of the 358 as a 200 yard cartridge and the Whelen as a 250 yard cartridge, but that does not mean their bullets simply fall to the ground at those ranges. What I mean to say is that I'd just as soon use either of these cartridges on moose/bear out to these ranges as any other sub 375 H&H cartridge. Both of them are very effective. Regardless the cartridge you choose, I think you will be very satisfied. In fact you may decide the decision is too difficult and end up buying them both.
    That's my problem now. I may end up with both. I do like the Ruger. I can get it in .35 Whelen from Gun Broker. How does the Ruger compare to the Rem? I know the Ruger has a 22" barrel and the Rem has a 24" barrel.

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    I'll just say amen to what everyone else is saying here. They're all on the mark and no hype or flames. Good discussion.

    I've owned both and liked the heck out of them. They're real close, with differences I'm not sure an animal would notice.

    But as I think about it, I think I've "voted" for the 358 for my own uses. I've got three of them, and have owned all of them for the best part of 35 years. During that time I've had 3 or 4 Whelen's pass through my hand, but not stick.

    Mostly that's a reflection of the types of rifles rather than the caliber. All of my 358's (a Savage 99, a Winnie 88 and a Carl Gustoff lefty custom) are small and light. That just suits the way I carry and use them. The Whelens I've owned have been bigger and a little heavier. Start taking guns away from me and the 99 is the last I'd let go, as much for sentiment as function. Lots of memories and good service.

    I've had a twitch for a Whelen lately, and frankly the only way I'm likely to get what I want is to build it. I like the Ruger action for its tang safety. I've got a house full of Remingtons, so maybe that's why the Ruger appeals right now.

    I gotta say though, that if I build a Whelen it's very likely to be an Ackley Improved. I had one loaned to me for a couple of years and really grew to like it. Case life was much longer than any other Whelen I've owned or loaded for. It's only 100 fps or so faster out of a 22" barrel, so it's not that much of an "improvement" over the Whelen. But add that 100 fps to the difference between a Whelen and a 358, and you've got something.

    I guess what I'm saying is that the jump in performance between a 358 and a standard Whelen isn't enough to interest me. But the 200-250 fps (depending) difference between a 358 and a Whelen AI does get my attention. If I'm going to build a rifle that's a little bigger and a little heavier, I want that kind of jump in performance. Not throwing dirt on the plain Whelen, and I still might build that instead. But you know how a hankering can grow on you, and right now the hankering ends in AI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roknjs View Post
    That's my problem now. I may end up with both. I do like the Ruger. I can get it in .35 Whelen from Gun Broker. How does the Ruger compare to the Rem? I know the Ruger has a 22" barrel and the Rem has a 24" barrel.
    IME they are both good rifles. I would not make a fuss over a 24 or 22 inch barrel. I have my preference, but I'll not go so far as to say it is better. I suspect that the Remington is significantly lighter than the Ruger, probably 3/4 of a pound lighter. The Ruger includes very secure (& heavy) scope rings with its purchase price, but then its design radically limits your choice in mounts.

    When I bought this Whelen, it was the only factory offered bolt action in 35 Whelen so my choice was easy. If I were to buy another factory rifle in 35 Whelen, my decision would not be as simple. I like them both and I do not think either rifle would be a poor decision on your part. I encourage you to compare them both, side-by-side if possible. Then you can tell us why you chose one over the other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roknjs View Post
    I want a .35 caliber. I've done quite a bit of reading here and on other sites. I've narrowed it down to a .358 Win or a .35 Whelen. I've seen some good examples on here of .358 Win accuracy. Is the .35 Whelen just as accurate?

    I plan on using the rifle in the lower 48 mostly, but may be used here some.

    So far, I know the main advantage of .35 Whelen over .358 Win is the .35 Whelen factory ammo is more readily available. Some will say the .35 Whelen provides better distance. I probably won't shoot past 250-300 yards anyway, so I'm not sure this is a true advantage for me. I also know the Whelen will send the 250 gr bullets and up with more authority. Am I missing anything.

    head or tails.......
    its your pick....they are both great cartridges. The last game animal I shot was a moose....with a 358 Winchester BLR. I own a 9.3X62 mauser full stocked CZ carbine which is prob. why I dont own a 35 whelen....but I sure like em! So....I'm covered for AK with my 358 and 9.3X62. My vote would go for the 358....it's a perfect rifle for carrying through the thick stuff. But beware....they do have quite a kick in a light rifle with full power 250 grain handloads. here's the answer to all that ales yah: THE FINEST 358 your eyes could ever lay on: (put a 1-4 power or 1.5-6 power scope on that bad girl and take any Alaskan big game animal within 300 yds) This is a 300 yd. big game rifle.....and don't forget it. do some studying, check our energy figures, and how much the bullet will drop at 300 yds....then compare them with a 30-06 with a 180 grain bullet and get back with me....tell me what yah found at 300 yds.....not what a magazine article told yah.

    http://www.browning.com/products/cat...34&type_id=015

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Cor15:19 View Post
    IME they are both good rifles. I would not make a fuss over a 24 or 22 inch barrel. I have my preference, but I'll not go so far as to say it is better. I suspect that the Remington is significantly lighter than the Ruger, probably 3/4 of a pound lighter. The Ruger includes very secure (& heavy) scope rings with its purchase price, but then its design radically limits your choice in mounts.

    When I bought this Whelen, it was the only factory offered bolt action in 35 Whelen so my choice was easy. If I were to buy another factory rifle in 35 Whelen, my decision would not be as simple. I like them both and I do not think either rifle would be a poor decision on your part. I encourage you to compare them both, side-by-side if possible. Then you can tell us why you chose one over the other.
    Unfortunately, the only Rugers I've seen in 35 Whelen were online. It looks like they dropped it from their lineup. The .358 is a nice one. Goes about 7 lbs.

    The Ruger in 35 Whelen would go 7-7.8 lbs. I can't find the specs on the Remington's weight.

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    A rifles accuracy is related to the quality of the chambering and barrel, less so the cartridge. The whelen can give around 100 fps over the 358, the 358 can be had in a marginally lighter package. You probably don't "need' either in the lower 48 but the .358 will do anything that you want it to and then some. I'd sure like a savage 99 in .358.

    I'd get whatever makes you feel warm and fuzzy

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    I have wanted a Whelen all my life, and I really don't know why. I don't know why I've wanted one so bad when I had others that would and have sufficed, and more importantly, I don't know why I haven't built myself one yet. I may have to disguise my address from Brownbear as I have started a project for my Whelen on a Ruger 77 Ultralight with the tang safety! Or I guess I could just ask him for load data and post pics.

    Anywho rambling aside, I have known about the Whelen for quite a long while and until I was in college I had no idea the 358 even existed, don't know how that happened but the Whelen bug had already bitten me. Besides the fact that I found a great deal on a rifle with a std length action made the decision easier, add to that that I found a set of dies and 20rds of brass for 20 bucks and you can see what really made my mind.

    But had that rifle been short action, I would likely be in the process of putting my new 358 together. I have visited with several guys who have had both and their performance seems pretty equal. I have been toying with the idea of late of putting together a pretty much same dimension as my soon to be Whelen, for my Girlfriend to use, in 358. I think that would be cool, as long as it has the same LOP as the rest of my rifles.

    I think it boils down to which one you want engraved on the side of your barrel, and nothing more. So handle some guns, pick the one you like best, and worry about whether its a 35 or 358 once you get it home.

    Good luck and good choice whichever you choose, its nice to see guys picking sensible cartridges to use at sensible ranges in the day of the UberMag mentality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Cor15:19 View Post
    ... Of course the Whelen ... their bullets simply fall to the ground ...
    1Cor, I have been impressed by your objectivity lately.





    JK--I know the Whelen is a great round.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    I have wanted a Whelen all my life, and I really don't know why. I don't know why I've wanted one so bad when I had others that would and have sufficed, and more importantly, I don't know why I haven't built myself one yet. I may have to disguise my address from Brownbear as I have started a project for my Whelen on a Ruger 77 Ultralight with the tang safety! Or I guess I could just ask him for load data and post pics.

    Anywho rambling aside, I have known about the Whelen for quite a long while and until I was in college I had no idea the 358 even existed, don't know how that happened but the Whelen bug had already bitten me. Besides the fact that I found a great deal on a rifle with a std length action made the decision easier, add to that that I found a set of dies and 20rds of brass for 20 bucks and you can see what really made my mind.

    But had that rifle been short action, I would likely be in the process of putting my new 358 together. I have visited with several guys who have had both and their performance seems pretty equal. I have been toying with the idea of late of putting together a pretty much same dimension as my soon to be Whelen, for my Girlfriend to use, in 358. I think that would be cool, as long as it has the same LOP as the rest of my rifles.

    I think it boils down to which one you want engraved on the side of your barrel, and nothing more. So handle some guns, pick the one you like best, and worry about whether its a 35 or 358 once you get it home.

    Good luck and good choice whichever you choose, its nice to see guys picking sensible cartridges to use at sensible ranges in the day of the UberMag mentality.
    Thanks. I had a .325 WSM but traded it. I like the .35's better. Since I have a .308 coming, the .358 would be a good choice since I can make .358 out of .308 brass.

    However, the 35 Whelen has interested me for quite a while. I've just recently come across the .358, but looking at some of the posts on here, it seems to be a pretty nice round.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 35gibber View Post
    A rifles accuracy is related to the quality of the chambering and barrel, less so the cartridge. The whelen can give around 100 fps over the 358, the 358 can be had in a marginally lighter package. You probably don't "need' either in the lower 48 but the .358 will do anything that you want it to and then some. I'd sure like a savage 99 in .358.

    I'd get whatever makes you feel warm and fuzzy
    back in 04 when i attempted to buy a savage 358 winchester on bunbroker and was bought out with bids all that were over $3,000 dollahs.....i gave up and bought a Browning Levah.....for $700 from boondocks......and ran the rivahs happily evah aftah. (but I still wish I could have a 358 savage 99)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak View Post
    back in 04 when i attempted to buy a savage 358 winchester on bunbroker and was bought out with bids all that were over $3,000 dollahs.....i gave up and bought a Browning Levah.....for $700 from boondocks......and ran the rivahs happily evah aftah. (but I still wish I could have a 358 savage 99)
    Haven't been to Boondocks yet. I need to go look there. I'll probably swing by there Monday. Unless they are open tomorrow.

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    I basically said NO to all the common 30-06 300 win mag and 338 win mag guns and went entirely unique......it feels great too BTW! even got rid of the 375 ruger be all fix all magnum I had.......the ole 9.3 is just too good like that

    it's basically a supersized 308 and 30-06 when you think about these two cartridges. although....the 9.3 does hold quite a bit more powder than an 06 case...same length. good 300 yd. guns, unique, and fun to handload for.

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