Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 44

Thread: No bashing....just venting

  1. #1

    Default No bashing....just venting

    I am a retriever trainer and frequent the Palmer Hay Flats regularly. I train in areas that are right popular for other amateur trainers and even those that just go out to walk their dogs.

    Here's the problem. I went out to one of my areas to train...haven't been there since last summer. With the winds we have been having lately I scouted out the area for potential dog training. It looked good so I went out to set up. When I did.. I noticed out of place sticks...this is a watery area during the summer so a stick is well out of place. It just didn't belong. Being inquisitive I pulled it up. A chain was attached so I figured it is a trap. I then looked around and the whole area had sticks with traps attached.
    I understand trapping goes on in the area, but never this close to where others venture. Typically you see trails made by the trappers where they go in to check there traps. I do avoid those areas. But these traps had no trail to them no sign at all of being checked. In fact they were covered over by snow and frozen in.
    My guess is they were placed here during the fall and then simply left. Maybe winter caught up with the trapper too fast and he couldn't pull them. I don't know. These things are setup right along a road. A very popular road. Just doesn't seem ethical.
    Before you start bashing me I know there are laws in place to protect your trapping rights. And then you'll tell me that I wasn't suppose to touch the traps and that I could get arrested. That's ok...I know there are good people and bad people. I'm looking to hear from the good people on how to best handle this situation.
    Right now these traps aren't causing a big problem because they are so weather in that they won't get tripped. But come spring when things start to melt will cause a problem. Not only for me but for other dog enthusiast that frequent that spot for dog training. And there are lots of us that do.
    My questions is....How do I handle this if these are truly abandoned traps.
    I did talk to a Trooper today as well. Yes, he too told me what the law was and apparently trappers can trap there. But he said that I did not have the authority to determine if they were abandoned or not. So who does...the trooper wouldn't give me a definitive answer. I think he was siding to the fact that all trappers are responsible for there traps and that this person will be back to check on them.
    Even if they are frozen in....an axe can get them out. So I find this person to be extremely lazy in recovering his equipment. Meanwhile preventing others from using the same area for recreation.
    Simply put.....I feel that trappers rights are infringing on my own recreation. If these traps are still there this spring and since it is illegal for me to touch them. That means I can't safely train my dogs there.
    Being held at bay by a bad seed trapper.

  2. #2
    Member Huntress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Somewhere between here and there.....
    Posts
    1,173

    Default

    Baron,

    I would call F&W Troopers (not AST) in Palmer and let them know the situation. That it doesn't look like they have been tended to and let them handle it. We have been told (don't know if its true or not) that if it looks as though they had been abandoned they will pull them and hope that the owner comes looking for them, eventually. I have a message into Rick E, he knows most of what goes on around there and the area really well....he might have some better suggestions or information on who those might belong to.
    Did you happen to notice any metal tags hanging off of them? Some folks identify them with metal name tags that are usually hanging off the chain.....
    It sounds to me like it might be a rat trapper, which if placed right wont cause harm to your dogs. They are usually located and placed within a "rat push up" with a stick coming out of the top to anchor the trap and this time of year are usually frozen. That's why most folks wait till spring to "rat trap".

    Hope this helps!
    "In the interest of protecting my privacy I will no longer be accepting Private Messages generated from this site and if you email me, it better be good!"

  3. #3

    Default

    Yeah, they are sticking up out of mounds. Rat trapping, hmmm. OK
    This area is my swimby pond, also use it for cheating singles, down the shore marks, even down the shore blinds. It's nice cause it is right next to the road so you don't have to lug a bunch of stuff out very far.

    no metal tags from what I saw.

  4. #4
    Member Huntress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Somewhere between here and there.....
    Posts
    1,173

    Default

    Yep sounds like a Muskrat trapper. He could very well be leaving them there as well. More than likely they aren't set, left to sit and freeze so that when the thaw comes he's ready to go and hasnt lost his area to trap in.That area is pretty competitive when it comes to rat trapping. Just an assumption though, weirder things happen all the time!
    "In the interest of protecting my privacy I will no longer be accepting Private Messages generated from this site and if you email me, it better be good!"

  5. #5

    Default They could be very active still

    Rat trapping like that will look like they are frozen in, but they are trapping the mounds inside. Many will cover the mounds up with snow to keep the inside of the mound from freezing where the rats are coming up inside. I would bet they are being tended. Also, if they are in the mounds, then they are no danger to your dog at all.

    -TJ

  6. #6
    Member Huntress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Somewhere between here and there.....
    Posts
    1,173

    Default

    You are right Top Jimmy. They very well could be active. I was going off the comment that he made about not seeing any trapper trail etc... But, in that area it's easy to have a trail and have it wind blown within minutes. I also know folks who do leave their sets out and don't mess with them until spring. No different than some who just pull their snares and hang them. Its pretty common. My point being what may seem "abandoned" my very well not be what it seems.
    TJ is right Wetland, they do not pose harm to your dogs. In fact when we were trapping rats in that area before it became popular we usually had ours dogs with us. It was a family affair, many kids in the area get their feet wet by rat trapping.
    "In the interest of protecting my privacy I will no longer be accepting Private Messages generated from this site and if you email me, it better be good!"

  7. #7

    Default Snapped or not?

    I'll bet they are snapped and ready for the thaw which is legal. Animals left in the water start to lose hair in a relatively short time. The fur must be saved thus that would be illegal. Trapping thier houses (mounds) is common all winter and legal.
    Not to be a butt but, Alaska is trapping country. You should learn about the sport that has been a large part of Alaskan history. I would train dogs there, no problem. The dogs probably wouldn't get trapped and if they did, no big deal. A muskrat trap is painless but would teach the dog to steer clear from them which could save thier life. A friend years ago brought his dog on the trap line. He stepped in a #3 cat trap only once. Problem solved and after 20 seconds you couldn't tell by his behavior that he was caught in one. If the muskrat traps are on drowners it could be a problem or if beaver trapping is taking place but dogs figure things out quickly. (The ones worth having anyway!) lol

  8. #8

    Default

    There is still plenty of snow around to leave tracks. This last snow is what about a week and a half old.
    I'm thinking like Huntress about them being left. But then that still doesn't make me feel any better. Spring is when I want to use that area the most. It would be nice to coexist with the trapper. So I can still train my dogs and he/she can still trap in the same area.
    I'll pay closer attention to the style of trap. It could very well be that these traps won't bother my dogs. I hope so, certainly come Spring.

  9. #9
    Member Huntress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Somewhere between here and there.....
    Posts
    1,173

    Default

    Wetland, a rat trapper won't bother you or your dogs one bit. Unless your dog is digging into the mound he'll never be exposed to the rat traps. The traps are located within their homes, almost like a miniature beaver house. You, yourself, can stand on top of these mounds and never see or be exposed to the traps. The only thing you should see is the stick like you saw today, maybe some wire or chain. When we checked our rat traps we did it almost every day. If nothing else it was at least every other day.

    The traps used are very small.
    "In the interest of protecting my privacy I will no longer be accepting Private Messages generated from this site and if you email me, it better be good!"

  10. #10

    Default

    What Huntress said.

    I have trapped muskrats out there myself. Not in the last few years however.

    The traps are in the push-ups and your dog won't get caught in them. They usually do freeze in but it's just the chain, the trap is inside the pushup and insulated by the moss that the muskrat puts there to keep it's breathing/feeding hole open. A couple whacks with a hatchet and the trap is checked, then the moss is put back in place and packed with snow.

    The trap can be left for awhile because the muskrat almost always dives down in the hole and drowns. They keep pretty well in that 30 some degree water.
    Wasilla Real Estate News
    www.valleymarket.com

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    14

    Default Get Over It

    Retriever, it sounds like you are upset because a trapper is legally trapping in an area that you haven't been to in a while. Every place in Alaska has a different use at different times of the year. While Alaska is vast, perhaps February is not the best time to train your dog at the Palmer Hay Flats. I think that I might post a complaint on the waterfowl/dog training forum because I am tired of stepping in dog turds every time I go to check my traps.

  12. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by two timer View Post
    I think that I might post a complaint on the waterfowl/dog training forum because I am tired of stepping in dog turds every time I go to check my traps.


    I don't care who you are, that's funny!
    "If you are not working to protect hunting, then you are working to destroy it." ......Fred Bear

  13. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by two timer View Post
    Retriever, it sounds like you are upset because a trapper is legally trapping in an area that you haven't been to in a while. Every place in Alaska has a different use at different times of the year. While Alaska is vast, perhaps February is not the best time to train your dog at the Palmer Hay Flats. I think that I might post a complaint on the waterfowl/dog training forum because I am tired of stepping in dog turds every time I go to check my traps.
    Sure...go ahead.
    But you will probably wind up with an answer like the one you posted.
    Like I mentioned before... I am looking for good people to answer.

    Besides...dog turds won't kill you or injure you...like a trap will my dogs.

    You could learn from Huntress, martyv,Tombo and Top Jimmy. They are putting forth the effort that I am looking for. Education on how to operate with trappers.

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    14

    Default Your Right

    I think that you should submit a proposal to shut down trapping in the Palmer Hay Flats on the basis that two or three people might want to get outside for two hours during January and train a dog. Maybe if you bring in some of these "Biologists" from ADFandG you guys could prove that there are only 3 muskrats in the Palmer Hay Flats area and shut the season down for good. By the way, dog turds contain what is known as fecal choloform which can be deadly if it gets into any water supply.

  15. #15
    Member Huntress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Somewhere between here and there.....
    Posts
    1,173

    Default

    Woah guys! Wetland came on here with a valid concern. He didn't come on here belittling trappers and whatnot.....Give it some thought before you post, education goes a long ways and not everyone knows what trapping is about like you or I. Trapping gets a bad rap, folks who don't trap take in the information that they get from the anti's. It's your job as a trapper to keep our future going by educating and helping folks who don't understand trapping. Otherwise with the badgering that was just recently posted Wetland could very well walk around still thinking his dog could be killed by a rat trap...Come on! Those of you who stepped up and helped me explain rat trapping, thank you.

    I'll now step down from my soapbox, the air is a little thin up here.
    "In the interest of protecting my privacy I will no longer be accepting Private Messages generated from this site and if you email me, it better be good!"

  16. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntress View Post
    Woah guys! Wetland came on here with a valid concern. He didn't come on here belittling trappers and whatnot..

    Really, than what was this?


    =
    Wetland Retrievers;660583] These things are setup right along a road. A very popular road. Just doesn't seem ethical.
    So I find this person to be extremely lazy in recovering his equipment. Meanwhile preventing others from using the same area for recreation.
    Simply put.....I feel that trappers rights are infringing on my own recreation.

    Being held at bay by a bad seed trapper.

    All this because he found some sets, in HIS area that he hadn't been to in a long time. what it boils down to is he wanted to bash trappers because he found some traps and didn't like it, but doesn't want anybody to say anything back, hence the "bad" people.

    Great, all the trappers "unite" to very politely inform him that they are muskrat traps and his dog is in no danger and all is well right? Wrong, maybe next time they are coyote sets, then will his complaint be legitimate? Should the trapper pull all his traps because someone wants to train their dog?

    Does anyone on this forum understand what public land is? I am getting the strong feeling everyone thinks it means "I am the only one that should be on it, and anyone that disrupts MY activities is WRONG and anyone who utilizes it differently is BAD.

    Wetlands Retriever, I think you most definetly should be able to go out and hunt/train with your dog, but you are no more right or wrong than that trapper for using the land. You admitted you don't know much about trapping yet you were very quick to say he is lazy, bad seed, and unethical and also label anyone who took offense to that as "bad". What does that accomplish? Why such a hatred to someone who is trying to enjoy the outdoors much like yourself?

    Ryan
    "If you are not working to protect hunting, then you are working to destroy it." ......Fred Bear

  17. #17

    Default

    Hi Baron. Let me ask, and maybe I missed this already, but were the traps chained to the stick located inside a muskrat pushup? I'm not flaming just curious.


    EDIT: I'm a trapper and I doubt Baron was here to bash trappers. I think he was here moreso to learn a thing or two from his findings. Venting a lil, probably so, a lil uneducated in the ways of trapping I'd say yes. Lets keep this friendly and educate verses the stoning approach.

  18. #18
    Member Huntress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Somewhere between here and there.....
    Posts
    1,173

    Default

    Ryan,

    The way I read this is that he thought whoever it was abandoned the sets, possibly a lazy trapper (I'll be the first to admit I know a few of those!). Without a healthy understanding of how trapping works how was he to know any different. If your a trapper, don't you find it part of your duty to inform the misinformed? If not you are in the wrong sport because you'll come across much worse than Wetland.
    I also don't believe it was hatred you were reading, not at all. What I read was an person who had no idea what trapping was about.

    Each year this happens, Dog's vs Traps...please don't act like its a surprise.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lost_By_Choice View Post
    Really, than what was this?


    =









    All this because he found some sets, in HIS area that he hadn't been to in a long time. what it boils down to is he wanted to bash trappers because he found some traps and didn't like it, but doesn't want anybody to say anything back, hence the "bad" people.

    Great, all the trappers "unite" to very politely inform him that they are muskrat traps and his dog is in no danger and all is well right? Wrong, maybe next time they are coyote sets, then will his complaint be legitimate? Should the trapper pull all his traps because someone wants to train their dog?

    Does anyone on this forum understand what public land is? I am getting the strong feeling everyone thinks it means "I am the only one that should be on it, and anyone that disrupts MY activities is WRONG and anyone who utilizes it differently is BAD.

    Wetlands Retriever, I think you most definetly should be able to go out and hunt/train with your dog, but you are no more right or wrong than that trapper for using the land. You admitted you don't know much about trapping yet you were very quick to say he is lazy, bad seed, and unethical and also label anyone who took offense to that as "bad". What does that accomplish? Why such a hatred to someone who is trying to enjoy the outdoors much like yourself?

    Ryan
    "In the interest of protecting my privacy I will no longer be accepting Private Messages generated from this site and if you email me, it better be good!"

  19. #19

    Default

    =Huntress;660853]Ryan,
    The way I read this is that he thought whoever it was abandoned the sets, possibly a lazy trapper (I'll be the first to admit I know a few of those!).
    Right there is the problem, why do hunters and trappers always assume the worst in each other? How is this helping any of us?

    Without a healthy understanding of how trapping works how was he to know any different. If your a trapper, don't you find it part of your duty to inform the misinformed?
    I agree 100%, but thats not what is going on here. The core of his message was a trapper rights were infringing on his recreation. All that was said to him is that muskrat traps won't hurt his dog. That's watering it down with out ever addressing the real issue. I know it's a warm fuzzy to sugar coat what we do to "justify" it. Maybe because we think if we constantly proclaim how "ethical" we are and bash anyone that hunts short of a longbow, that our rights won't be taking away. My personal belief is this is sending the wrong message. What it's doing is putting us at each others throats as it is so evidently clear on this forum.

    BTW, I don't trap. Never got into it, strange how it takes someone who doesn't trap to stand up for the one who does. I am a hunter and a fisherman and a general outdoor and wildlife enthusist and I most certainly feel it's my duty to inform the misinformed, appearently it is at a much larger scale than I thought though.

    Ryan
    "If you are not working to protect hunting, then you are working to destroy it." ......Fred Bear

  20. #20

    Default

    This has been informative for me. I have learned the type of traps that are being used and that they(the traps) aren't designed large enough for dogs. I don't train in wolf areas....so I expect I'll never be around anything big enough trap wise to worry about.
    I'm not looking to shut anything down. I really wasn't aware that trappers are allowed to leave equipment out as it was explained over winter. Which could be the case in this situation. I figured that if traps weren't being used they were taken up. But I too can see the rationale for leaving them behind til Spring. They can't hurt anything encased in ice.
    I'll keep an eye out and hopefully I'll have a friendly meeting with this individual in the future.
    Two timer...on a calmer note...I'm not the typical person that goes out once in a blue moon to go play with my dog. I run a training business. At times I have anywhere from 8 to 12 dogs on my truck to work with. I'm out training at least 5 to 6 days a week. These are client dogs that I train for hunting and also competition training. Training goes on year round for me. For me..training has to continue during winter to keep the dogs skill level up. My clients run Hunt Test and Field Trials. You can't wait til Spring to start training. If you do you don't have enough time to fix problems before the first competition event. I rotate from one location to another depending on weather and ground conditions. This week it happened to be the flats.
    The retrievers that I run are bred for lots of power. They run at full speed on retrieves. So at the thought of one of them hitting a trap at 30 mph would be just devastating. I take very seriously the care of the dogs entrusted with me. Being first uneducated on what was exactly going on....YES...I admit...I over reacted. Mainly because of that care I put into each retriever on my truck. But I'm glad I had this forum as a resource to have things explained a bit more. Now that I know the traps are hard to get to for a dog I can continue training there. In fact the mounds add a bit for the dogs to negotiate around.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •