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Thread: what do you think of PROXY hunting?

  1. #1
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Default what do you think of PROXY hunting?

    should there be limits on the number of proxy's allowed?

    should they be allowed on ALL hunts?


    what about party hunts where one or two groups is filling proxy after proxy cleaning out local wintering holes?

    is the system being abused or not used enough?

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    Member pike_palace's Avatar
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    My sister is permanently disabled and we cannot get a proxy for her, fishing or hunting, because the state is such a bunch of *ricks about it. They want your whole lifes story and then some, and then you gotta contact your attorney, and on and on...
    "Ya can't stop a bad guy with a middle finger and a bag of quarters!!!!"- Ted Nugent.

  3. #3
    Member kodiakrain's Avatar
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    Default Not convinced

    I know of one young guy who seems to constantly taking Deer as he has got the proxy system down, it may be legitimate for a few older folks he knows and is really helping out with meat, but smacks of abuse more than legit. Only one guy I have heard of using the system though, so....

    Should be limited more from my view

    Dangerously close to the debate on subsistence priority being valid at all anymore. Are these people starving without these game(?), and if not can't we parcel out the access to animals more carefully to those who really appreciate the hunting experience?

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    I do not have a problem with proxies. I appreciate the desire to have quality healthy meat in the freezer. It may need to be better regulated but in principle I don't take issue with it. I would gladly take a proxy for my uncle or other hunter and feel great about helping to provide for them. As it my uncle hunts just fine and then rides out to cell phone access and calls me for the HARD work. I show up to help butcher and pack rain or shine, night or day and have always refused any meat.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    There are always a few who will break the law. I feel its a good program and ever better if you can get the person close to the action and involved in some way.

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    Member Chisana's Avatar
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    Personally I do not know how prevalent proxy hunting is, but I would really like to be in a situation where I could proxy hunt for elders or others who were unable to do so for themselves. I can think of few things more fulfilling than bringing home food for others. Friends who have lived in the bush have literally seen tears in the eyes of elders when someone brought them a choice piece of wild game. I would like to be able to do that for folks and do try to share as much of our own meat as we can spare and will continue to do so as long as I can.

  7. #7
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    I've only done it once, but it was a very rewarding experience. I hunted my sister's Nelchina caribou tag a few years ago when she was going through daily radiation and chemotherapy. It was a very, very big deal to her family that I was able to bring them home a caribou to fill their freezer. The system has its abusers for sure, and they should be dealt with harshly, but I'm not sure that systemic changes are needed. Having only participated once, though, there may be things I'm not aware of.

  8. #8

    Default I've seen where it was

    abused really bad. In unit 20E, we saw it completely abused. Thus, you can't proxy hunt for moose or caribou I believe here. I do have a problem with people proxy hunting for moose as most families can easily shoot a moose and share some with elders, etc. and still make it through the winter. I share as much meat with as many people as we can. We have been very fortunate the past few years with Delta cow's and other moose. I could proxy hunt for my parents, but choose not to as I can share with them, so why kill another moose?

    I do NOT think it is a bad thing if it is used how it is supposed to be used. There will always be the abusers and they should be hammered!

  9. #9
    Member Milo's Avatar
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    Used as intented - Good.
    Used not as intend - Bad, but not necessarily illegal.
    Falsified claims - Should be prosecuted same as poaching.

    I could get a proxy every time I moose hunt. Never have because 1 moose and a couple bou is more than enough for me and that family. I don't think I deserve to shoot two.

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    so here we are back to use and abuse.

    i think the general understanding i operate on is that the ten percent of people, or one percent, whatever you want to call them, will ignore the law (or intentionally manipulate the intent of the law) when it suits them.

    i am disheartened when i think about this, but i just hope the land can absorb these perpetrators and their abuse, and that it will not undermine the things that i cherish.


    i can recognize the intent of the law, but i also have been the benefactor and gifter of wild game being shared....and in my experience we help out those in our community in times of need, so i am a bit unsure of the need, though also understanding its intentions.

    To me what LuJon describes is much different than when the game/fish recipient is not at all involved in the harvest, but then, as in Brian's circumstance with his sister I can very much understand.

    Though I ask whether perhaps Brian should have hunted game under one of the many non-permitted openings for himself, not needing the proxy liscense, and taking moose or caribou elsewhere. The nelchina permit could have gone unfilled, increasing the herd by one.

    Certainly the nelchina hunt was the easier choice (and not saying that i wouldn't have taken the opportunity myself in that situation) but brian probably could have obtained equivalent meat elsewhere.

    Curious, did you also have a permit for yourself there?



    In the larger sense i am just pointing out that the rules allow an individual to take enough to share if they work hard enough...so maybe the proxy law is a bit unneccessary.


    people can double dip if they have their own liscense and a proxy, right?

  11. #11
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andweav View Post
    Though I ask whether perhaps Brian should have hunted game under one of the many non-permitted openings for himself, not needing the proxy liscense, and taking moose or caribou elsewhere. The nelchina permit could have gone unfilled, increasing the herd by one.

    Certainly the nelchina hunt was the easier choice (and not saying that i wouldn't have taken the opportunity myself in that situation) but brian probably could have obtained equivalent meat elsewhere.

    Curious, did you also have a permit for yourself there?
    Fair question. As for a permit, I did not have one myself that year for the Nelchina herd. Under the Tier II system I received a permit twice, but that wasn't one of those years. As for whether I could have got equivalent meat for my sister elsewhere, that is certainly possible. That being said, I certainly couldn't have gotten her caribou without either driving up the Haul Road or flying out, both of which I could not have done that particular fall due to both time and financial constraints. I was in my first year of teaching and taking a week off during hunting season was just not an option. Additionally, I'm just not a very good moose hunter. Really, it is something that I've had pretty meager success with. I could have chased moose in another unit that weekend, but my chances for success - and thus a full freezer for my sister who was single with three children while going through cancer - would have been much lower. Your questions are valid, but given the circumstances surrounding my sister's need and my lack of time and finances to pursue other options, I didn't think twice about filling her tag for her.

  12. #12
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    I hunt meat for Elders, have been for years...

    Proxie hunting shouldnt be for those who "appreciate the experiance", it is for those who appreciate the meat. The experiance is called "Hard work"

    I hunt/fish a plenty, and if I am hunting/gathering for my family and a proxy, its not "Double dipping" its "double the hard work."

    Nobodys gonna starve right away if we cant subsistance hunt, for sure, but neither is a city slicker when he loses his job , because the jobless can go on welfare and eat at Carrs, and thats no different.
    Maby the economie collapsing is no big deal after all, because you can go on welfare.

    What alotta guys dont seem to understand is that subsistance hunting IS a job. It keeps a family healthy and happy in a place where hunting rules where there are few jobs.
    Its not some once a year struggle up a mountain for one animal, its a year long struggle dealing with -50below to 12 foot above seas, across snow, ice, water, land and marsh, with bugs and danger for those who cant recognize it. Its hard work that feeds, clothes heats and makes ends meet as it has for thousands of years, with rewards that never ammount to much $$$ but certainly mucho self sufficentcy.

    I choose between buying food and buying fuel, I would never be able to do both. $6.85 of so a gallon for heating oil/gas, and with subsitance hunting I can make an honest living with hard work and self satisfaction.

    If subsitstnce hunting were outlawed, and I ended up in a city with hungry kids, and my living skills being null and void, I would hunt people, rich folks and especcially drug dealers who dont call cops and have the $$ ..... if subsitance hunting is outlawed, well so am I.

    I'll still be hunting, like a Viking.

    no kidding.
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

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  13. #13
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    not about subsistence or community harvest stranger...


    what about PROXY hunting the process used for some folks to have another hunt for them when they can not...


    i ask as there are rumors of some setting up camps and pulling multiple proxy's out of an area and wonder how right or wrong it is...

    should it be allowed for any hunt? one member here last fall had surgery and could not hunt nor get a proxy.


    should one hunter be allowed to fill 6-10 or more proxy?
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  14. #14
    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    I have mixed feelings on the proxy hunts. I thinks it's wonderful that the state has allowed for proxy hunts so that hunters can provide meat for those who can no longer get out and hunt.

    On the other hand, even without a proxy there are so many animals a hunter can legally take in a season that there is no way a family could possibly eat all that meat. So, even without a proxy a hunter can have a surplus of meat to share with the elders.

  15. #15
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    I get ya, Vince.

    My proxy hunting (holding an elders tags) and subsitance hunting are one and the same.
    Difference is whos buying gas and who gets first choice of what meats.
    When someone asks me to hunt, and provides tags and gas, they get first choice, and I do the work...
    Of course, when I fund it and work it, I give what I want , if I want.

    We ALWAYS share, and sometimes people bring me meat. I was lucky last spring with a broken Radius, that my oldest son can hunt well enough.
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

  16. #16
    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Default Intent is good, but loophole abuses are bad

    I agree with those who have said the intent is good but the abuses going on should be dealt with.

    "Sharing" of game is a customary and traditional practice no matter who you are or where you live. We used to send in meat to an elder widow in the past when we had it. Never thought of applying for a proxy permit. Certainly she couldn't eat a whole moose either. But she could eat a quarter over the course of the winter. And she shared it with her friends too.

    Allowing a proxy hunt, then, for a moose, for one person who can no longer hunt, seems a bit out of touch with reality of just how much meat they can consume. There are cases though where proxy hunting is warranted, especially if it is spread around to more than just one individual, as happens in many places today to get good quality game meat to elders who can no longer hunt.

  17. #17
    Member Bullwinkle50's Avatar
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    Default proxy

    Vince,

    Good question for a post. I believe the basic idea is good but as pointed out here probably gets abused. You also have the other side like Pike not getting one for his sister because of red tape. Abuse or loopholes are always going to be there because people are always going to figure out a way around the system. I would be in favor of limiting the number of proxys one person could fill but that could be an enforcement nightmare and sooner or later those same people that abuse the system will find a way around those restrictions.

    Randy

  18. #18

    Default Mixed opinion

    Like many others, I have a mixed opinion of the proxy hunting issue.

    If used as intended, where one person is unable to hunt for whatever rason and another is able to do the hunting for that person with the intent to provide the meat, or at least a majority of it, to the person who had the permit/tag but couldn't hunt, it is great. More power to them.

    If it is a case where the person who is unable to hunt is only used for their access to the permit/tag, be it from subsistance elegibility or just a regular tag, and the meat did not go to that person or maybe their direct family, I am against it. The system, at least my understanding of it, was not set up for the proxy hunter to fill their freezer with meat gained from the tag/permit of the other.

    Obviously, this is hard or even impossible to address completely because there isn't any rule about what the "owner" of the meat, the one who had the permit/tag, does with the meat after they have it home. I know the Nelchina hunt made some changes a couple years ago so that only people who had a permit themselves could proxy hunt for another and I belive they were only allowed to proxy for one person as well (max of 2 caribou taken by one person, theirs and the proxy). This would at least reduce any instances of someone paying some buddy's grandfather who lived in Glennallen $50 to fill out the application, then just hunt for themselves with the other's permit.

  19. #19
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    The proxy system is a good system - Like all other laws those who violate them should be prosecuted when caught. You can not proxy hunt all animals in all areas - The last time I looked you could only proxy hunt moose in an area where the limit was any bull, not in areas with other restrictions.

    Residents are allowed to take a moose and decide what they want to do with it - sausage, burger, share it with family, etc - why should they have any more right to this than my mother who is a resident that has been utilizing this resource for her entire life? The proxy law allows her to use me to obtain her share of the resource. What she does with it is her business and she really doesn't need a bunch of "hunters" deciding how much meat is too much for her to have in her freezer or share with her family.

    Just because one still has the capacities that allow them to hunt shouldn't give them anymore right to the resource of food. If you know of someone violating the proxy process please turn them in.

  20. #20
    Member Milo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rambling raven View Post
    Just because one still has the capacities that allow them to hunt shouldn't give them anymore right to the resource of food.
    Really? Thats how that last few millions years of evolution worked

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