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Thread: Complaints, Comments, but Little Hunting??

  1. #1

    Default Complaints, Comments, but Little Hunting??

    I joined this board only recently, as I plan my DIY '07 Moose Hunt. Something I've dreamt of as an avid hunter for quite some years now. I logged in, read a post or two containing the word "moose" and asked for a little help. And recieved just that "a little", very little. After a few weeks of following the board, I can see why. Guide bashing, guide supporting (with limits), out-of-stater bashing, out-of-stater supporting(as long as he's a freind of a resident), DIY-ers "too unsafe", DIY-ers OK, as long as they're "smart enough", F&G is "to blame", F&G is in it for the $, how "those people" are ruining "our way of life", and especially interesting is the commentary about us (those from the lower 48) who do one of two outlandish things- 1.- pay for a guide and 2. come to Alaska to use "your" land. WOW!!!! I asked for a little moose hunting help and got five replies, of which one was me. Local Alaskan Politics recieved 500+ replies. I thought the board was titled Alaska Hunting, not Alaska Political Views and Hunting Related Complaints. My Bad. To top it off, I'm an educated hunting advocate who loves this sport for the "hunt" part of it. So, I'm going to add my $.02 to the arguements, only in an effort to keep this board what it appears to me to be - a political hotbed of hunting related political commentary. Here goes (and please- this doesn't apply to everyone, just some of the ridiculous comments I've read):
    Alaska is a beautiful, an awesome place to just visit, let alone hunt, and I've only ever witnesssed a very small section of it, when on a guided sheep hunt in the Talkeetnas. I know - some of you may be thinking - what a whimpy, dinner-bell shooter using a guide. I also made the mistake last year of going to Disney for a vacation, when I could have been a real man and built some thrill rides on my own using old bicycles, a welder, two washing machines and a wheelbarrow, and then two black paper plates with a rubberband and a moose call taped to my nose so the kids would think I was Mickey....
    I've also forgotten my place in this nation of 49 states. You know, where we (from the United States) unwelcomely intrude in that far north nation, ruin it's residents way of life, trample all over it's national parks, unwelcomely supply millions upon millions of US dollars through the entire touristry industry, supply the unwanted billions of dollars to your nation's coffers by buying oil and other marketable items (crabs, fish, etc.). Spare me the hot-headed comments- I'm only refering to a select few here, and there's a smiley face insert here too- I'm simply saying that if you don't hold a deed, then it's not yours, so don't call it yours. We live in a great mixing pot of 50 states, not 49. We have to accept the person who stands up and yells at the top of his lungs that which makes our blood boil, and he must accept ours. That's what makes this country great!
    And, don't you vote there? I thought you did. My bad. Here in PA, we actually vote the lawmakers in and out of office, and those lawmakers are responsible for appointing the heads of services like Fish and Game, etc. In all the ramblings I've read nowhere did I see a responsible, educated comment on a politicians position relating to fish and game. I was pretty sure up until now that Alaska F & G was run by ALASKANS, not Brazilian nationals. "They" "They" "They" - what's up with that? I certainly would never tell you how to run your state's F & G, but it seems that some of you can't even tell your fellow Alaskan's how- just complaining about the outcome.
    And lastly, I'm sure most everyone who reads this board/post is a decent guy or gal, who like me is really heart & soul into hunting. And I appreciate that. I really appreciate the responses (though few) I've gotten from the few left here who actually want to discuss hunting (I know- I'll get blasted by someone for that too!). And, to prove my point, my moose post will probably remain at less than 10 replies- but this one will surely get some attention. All in all, Alaska is a beatiful place and though I have for the first time experience an aire of unwelcome feeling in my own nation because I'm an "outsider", "guide hirer", etc. I'm still gonna go, and I'm gonna love it! (and one more tiny comment- YES, views must be discussed as a lead into a political debate - I agree - my comments here are not reflective of the fact that these topics were discussed, just at foolishness of some of the commentary)

  2. #2
    Member lawdog's Avatar
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    Default get used to it...

    at least your just a nonres, I'm both a nonres and an assistant guide. We're the reason everything has gone to hell in AK. It doesn't matter that my Grandfather's a retired master guide and my Grandmother is a native or that I come to AK for months on end for little to no pay and leave thousands behind. I think your getting a real taste of what lurks behind this forum. Just continue to go and enjoy yourself and don't worry about them. e-mail me later about your hunt. jesse

  3. #3
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    Default

    Welcome to the forums edpre. Don't let the comments of a few skew your view of all. I agree with what you are saying. I think you will find that there are more who have no prob with people coming to Alaska and hunting. Most guys with the attitudes about non-res hunters really have no room to talk because they came from somwhere else a few years ago. My attiude is come on up and hunt for your moose. The Lord makes em every year.

    I read your post about your moose hunt inquiry but have no input for you. You need to remember that Alaska is one third the size of the entire Continental US. There are TONS of game management units, some probably the size of PA. Most of us only hunt in one or two of them. Your question was very specific in regards to a specific GMU, Guide and specific lake IN that area. I am surprised you had any responses. What are the chances of someone here knowing that specific info? Sounds like you did get some input, I would say that's pretty good. Now, if you would have asked something like "what GMU has the highest moose population and who hunts there?" I bet you have gotten quite a few more responses. Anyway, I think you see my point.

    Remember, there are hundreds of registered users on these forums and only a few with the "stay out of my state" attitude. I totally disagree with lawdog's statement of "I think your getting a real taste of what lurks behind this forum." Most Alaskans never even see these forums. and...
    If you spend some time and read past posts here and also in the old forums
    http://www.outdoorsdirectory.com/akforum/ you will find there are MANY who are quick to give info to help guys like you plan a hunt.

    Good hunting and Happy New Year

    Perry
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and donít have one, youíll probably never need one again

  4. #4
    Member RainGull's Avatar
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    Default

    To keep this discussion about game, it would seem that we all prefer the thin-skinned variety!!!

    I think that a lot has been read in to a lot. I think that I read all of the same stuff, and am quite sure I was on the right and wrong side of every "hunting discussion" depending on your viewpoint at the time. When some one says "gee, I don't think that it should be a requirement to hire a guide, and I wouldn't do it," dont take it to mean "anyone who hires a guide is a sorry whining whelp who needs to be spoon fed." Every issue is that way.

    So I believe that we ought to respect the fact that we are 50 United and seperate states and not one federalized entity (wishful thinking anymore). So I choose to honor the two founding documents as they were intended. So what! I like A-1 sauce on tuna fish does that offend anyone who prefers mayonaise?

    The way I see it these debates preclude good debates about hunting specifics. I see the discourse here as encouraging. I have the hope (perhaps false) that these issues will drive more participation in the process, both the political process, and the fish and game process. But then I am not afraid of a good debate. Everything is politics and everything is religion, it's unavoidable.

    I actually think that the recent debates here have been a big improvement lately. I see a lot less snide remarks and personal attacks (except for that one poor Smedley Herfendinger feller.)

    It's funny to me because you say, gee it's your state and dont you all vote and get involved politically? And then you say that we act like it's our state.

    Wouldn't you rather book your moose hunt and spend your money and have these issues worked out? Wouldn't you like more opportunity for your money? Wouldn't you like to see better management up here?

    It is the residents state and hence only they vote here to decide these issues. Hence when you come to a forum about Alaska Outdoors, you will get a bunch of passionate Alaskans involved in the politics of their issues. Be glad that you do not have to deal with the issues when you come up and hunt your sheep and moose and then leave the good and bad behind for us to continue to deal with.

  5. #5
    New member akhunter02's Avatar
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    Default edpre

    If you have been around this forum very long you will see there can be lots of good information passed along. I for one have received and passed along vital info to and from both Resident and Non resident hunters alike.

    But you need to keep one thing in mind, a quick way to get on the neg. side of things is to say or feel that non residents should have the same rights and oppertunities (related to hunting & fishing) as those of us who live here year round. Many alaskans (not all) take exception to non residents being able to guide here but yet cant legally hunt here.

    Many are fustrated that a good portion of air taxis and charter services cater to guides/outfitters and out of state hunters, supply and demand takes over and its all about the money. Again not all guides or air taxis are that way.

    Keep in mind that (im speaking for myself only) there are years of research, scouting, unsucessful hunts over the past 15 years. The information gained has been hard and costly to come by, so it is given out sparingly. Your questions was simple and to the point but many do not want to say anything if they cant say something good; and on this forum negative comments are highly frowned upon. Those looking for specifics on hunting spots should not expect to get much.

    Lastly, you see more of these kinds of threads (the one you speak of) between Nov and April. Not much going on to talk about and a lot of the negative things that happened in the past year is just now coming to the surface

    What till the end of Jan, first of Feb when permit results are released, there will be a lot more going on, more info being passed. And of course more complaining about how unfair the current drawing system is by those who didnt draw.

    Good luck on your moose hunt

  6. #6
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    Default

    I've lived and worked here non-stop for 40 years. I hunt, fish, raise kids, vote and pay taxes. I participate in the economy and have ridden the waves of good times and bad times here. It's my home. I participate every day in the local economy and infrastructure that provides outsiders the facilities to visit. I can't tell you how insignificant the opinion of some guy in Pennsylvania is when he says he's going to visit here and will spend a little money here and is disappointed in the attitudes of some local people. What these guys are discussing is important to them. This forum allows them a place to voice their opinions and frustrations. I don't expect somebody who lives in Pennsylvania would understand local issues.

    I've never stayed in another man's home as a guest and thought to tell him how to run it. If you want to visit Alaska, please do. If you want to participate in it's politics and policy making, move here. I don't care if your parents and grandparents lived here. If you don't, you don't.

    As far as the broad attack on guides, let me give my short overview. I like to hunt. I hunt for fun and for food. Guides hunt as a business. Good businessmen look for competitive advantages and increased volume and profit. Good businessmen are good at what they do. Make hay while the sun shines because you never know what next year will bring. In every other area of your life you seek out businesses and suppliers who provide you the best advantage. To be critical of guides because they're effective at their craft is profoundly hypocritical. To criticize a guide for charging what the market will bare, even if that market favors outsiders, is also hypocritical. Crowding? Crowding is four fast food restaurants on one intersection. We see it every day. If all four succeed, it must not be too crowded. If one fails, perhaps it was. These things tend to take care of themselves.

  7. #7
    New member akhunter02's Avatar
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    Default Well put

    enough said

  8. #8

    Default To sum it up.

    In Florida we have a saying that fits all of this complaining perfectly. "FISH OR CUT BAIT".

  9. #9
    New member akhunter02's Avatar
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    Default Bone

    Make you a deal, Ill keep hunting alaska and you keep fishing FLA

  10. #10
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    +1 on akhunter02 and Mr. Pid statements ,

    I couldn't have said it better myself!

    Cant remember ever getting on a hunting forum based on a another state and posted anything, nonetheless complained about my opportunities in their state or the way I expect to be treated.

  11. #11
    Member 379 Peterbilt's Avatar
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    edpre

    That post was a little strong dontcha think? There is no guarantee one will recieve free help here, but usually there is someone willing to help. But bashing for not getting any will probably result in ensuring no help. Someone posted the link to the old board - having joined 3 years ago, I know for certain there is some good information to be found. Back when Larry Bartlet was here, he offered tons of tips. Ya just gotta dig a little. Also, just be glad there is not a requirement for nonres to hire a guide for moose. Myself, I'm extreemely greatfull for that. Good luck on the moose hunt btw.

  12. #12
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    Default Penalty - Unsportsmanlike conduct


    Excessive whining in the backfield.

    (you are now 15 yards further from Alaska)

  13. #13
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    Well said Mr. Pid. That's how most Alaskans feel. This sentiment ain't new.
    I came here 36 yrs ago and outsiders got alot worse respect then. Political Correctness has taken a toll on how Alaskans can present themselves to outsiders. I like an argument with another AK resident cause I can respect him. I got no time for outsiders critisizing us. You will never understand Alaska or people who call it home. That also goes for out of state guides...They won't ever understand Alaska either.
    You're not going to get any good hunting places advertised over the world wide webs from Alaskans. Get over it.

  14. #14

    Default sunshine

    How about I send you all some fresh fruit or something. Out of control!! Must be the long winter. Last I heard Alaska is part of the USA. I have 2 Honorable Discharges and a Combat Action Ribbon. I pay more in Federal tax than most of you probably earn. I think I' ve earned the right to hunt Alaska and talk Alaska Hunting since I do go up there just about every year. Happy Hunting.

  15. #15
    Member 379 Peterbilt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bone View Post
    I pay more in Federal tax than most of you probably earn. I think I' ve earned the right to hunt Alaska and talk Alaska Hunting since I do go up there just about every year.
    Keep the money equation out of it. Yes, the nonres funds 80% of the monies toward the ADF&G budget, but wearing that on your sleeve will only serve further resentment. It does no good and just continues to divide all sportsman/hunters, who share the same interests.

    Respect to you on the combat service to our country, but in relation to a "right" to hunt Alaska, as a nonres, really means dick.

    However, you do have the "right" to "talk" about the hunting, as you say....but you are making us nonres's look bad.

    Reload and try harder next time, please.

  16. #16

    Default I apologize.

    It just bugs me that one American can tell another American that he does not belong or can't do this or that. I would personally invite any true sportsman to Florida to hunt alligator, fish, duck hunt, or shoot a Osceola Turkey.The scouting is already done. And i love showing others how it is done. Im happy to show all my secret spots to non residents because they don't live here to abuse it. We all have something to offer when it comes to hunting. I live and work for it. We leave our families for weeks at a time to come to Alaska and other places to hunt. We don't buy animals at high fence hunting clubs we want to work for them. I want the game to be just as plentiful in Alaska 20 years from now also. I want my son to come to Alaska in a few years and experience the beauty and wonder. Lets talk hunting not about the idea that non residents and their guides are hunting animals into extinction. happy hunting and stay warm.

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    Keep in mind bone, osceolas , alligators and ducks arent on the list of dream hunts only available in one state for the 50 million hunters that live in our nation, Moose, Brown Bear,and Dall Sheep are makes things same but different at the same time.

  18. #18

    Default

    Wow, well I think you get the point. I know I could not have said it any clearer.

    Don't forget, there are many Alaskans that take time out of their day to help out nonres/foreigners catch a fish or whatever.

    I know you said it doesn't pertain to everyone here and this is a little off topic but at the same time comments about being included in what happens in our state, well why should anyone from the lower 48 tell us that we can't drill ANWR? 99.99% of the US population will never even visit that desolate area let alone go far if they do. Its not like the rest of the States, one road for publics use, no population other than workers and a few small villages otherwise its absent of people and will remain that way. Yet we can't seem to harvest our resources because the remainder of the US population has to put their 2 cents in as to what we do with the land. When was the last time you heard an Alaskan tell Texans that they can or can't drill for oil or that they have to change their hunting laws to better include the rest of us?

  19. #19
    Member H_I_L_L_B_I_L_L_Y's Avatar
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    Talking lack of siunlight

    boy its definatly late december.

  20. #20
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    lack of sunlight

    But we are now gaining more sunlight everyday.

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