I personaly would never hunt within a fenced area..
I personaly would never hunt within a fenced area..
It's a sad day when our inability to call something "wrong" on moral grounds leads us to places like this. But because so much of our society has, in the interest of embracing diversity, embraced an amoral view of nearly everything, hunters are put in a place where arguments like "who are you to tell me this is wrong" become the end of the discussion.
This is shooting. Not hunting. The guys involved should be ashamed.
So should SCI for endorsing it, and Cabela's for resourcing it. This rightly raises the ire of the non hunting public, dilutes the true essence of hunting, and could ultimately lead to the demise of recreational hunting altogether.
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So when is a fenced enclosure big enough that its a fair chase? Probably never big enough. SCI should not condone this at all but then it would eliminate a lot of South Africa hunting trophies, maybe that's why, I don't know. I had a hunt in Europe one time that was suppose to be fair chase. It was a very large area and I didn't realize it was completely fenced until afterwards. I never went back. I don't see how Cabela's is resourcing it. The link is to an advertisement for food plot attractants, not fences. Food plots are legitimately used in many non fenced areas to attract deer. By the time the fall season rolls around, most of the food is gone but the deer still use the area. ITs the same as cultivating oak trees or having apple trees. There's a lot of difference between fenced areas and the use of food plots. (Bait stations are another subject and usually illegal)
Yeah, I don't see any connection to Cabela's on this one. Just because they sell food plot stuff doesn't mean anything. Should we jump all over Fleet Farm because they sell sporting good and fence all in the same store? Nope.
"If you don't see a fence, it's just like hunting in the wild, but you're guaranteed to go home and eat elk meat."
If it is "guaranteed", it is not hunting.
Live life and love it
Love life and live it
I appluad Boone and Crockett for not supporting fenced hunts like this
There's one way to get the attention of states like Idaho that allow canned hunts. When you are planning an out of state hunt, don't hunt any state that allows them. Send them an e-mail too and let them know they are losing out on the opportunity to get your dollars and that you plan on hunting a state that demands fair chase.
I don't think the state makes any money off the canned farm hunts as they consider farmed animals to be property of the farm and not the state. But maybe they have some other way of getting into your pocket book.
Michael, I also think it's a sad day when people are muzzled to prevent them from mentioning names of people accused of serious crimes even when their name appears in a public report of these crimes. As for legal problems with this, you can't be sued for slander when you are speaking of facts. I can see running it by a person from the site who can then check it out to make sure it isn't a rumor or a downright falsehood, but it serves the users of the site no good to have a blanket ban. The information may save them headaches in the future. I could understand a rule that strictly banned discussing or speculating or flaming someone after the information was put out until a verdict was in. But if I was paying someone money to provide a service connected with a hunt, I'd like to know who was having trouble with the law. And if I saw a name mentioned in more than one incident, I'd have to be very leary of spending my money with that person. I thought this site was a place to get information. We all complain about unscrupulous guides and transporters, but if we can't give out public information, how are people supposed to know who they may want to avoid?
I once watched a television show where this "guide" was getting a couple on a massive bull elk. They told the lady to get ready and she shot. The show used the traditional kill shot of the bull being hit and what I found interesting was that you could see the high fence on three sides of the animal.
The lady also didn't even really know which end of the rifle was the right one and was totally out of place.
Disgusting. I wrote the show's producers and told them I thought the show was a joke and wouldn't ever watch again. Funny, it was pulled from the network the next week.
Shooting an animal that is in a pen is not hunting.
I've hunted elk in the Frank Church Wilderness and would do so again in a heartbeat. If the guys that hunt the farms get their ya-ya's doing so I say have fun. Horns never impressed me anyway.
It isn't my business to impose my beliefs on Idaho. I appreciated very much the opportunity to hunt there and hope to again. If these farms relieve pressure in the wilderness, I win. To each his own.
Unethical and just wrong,thats not hunting.Hunting should always be fair chase.
Dont care if you get a 400B&C elk bull in a high fench area,thats not true hunting to me
"We have a lot of people who are just tired of hunting on public land and all they see is wolf tracks," said Ken Walters, owner of the Ranch. "There's just too much competition out there and there aren't that many elk in the wild." This bull was taken this year after four days of hunting on public land and saw no other hunters. These people are just lazy. MC Hunting.
To each his own, Pid? That's a hard pill for some on this forum to swallow.
I'd say concerns of farm/penned animals transferring disease to wild stocks are legitimate.
I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
I have less friends now!!
Idaho allows canned hunts, MT and WY do not. One serious problem is this fall, an ID elk farm near the National Forest/ Yellowstone Pk. border had over 100 elk escape. Most were NOT shot in an emergency hunt ordered by the governer of Id.
Subsequent DNA tests showed at least one cow was a Red Deer/Elk hybrid. Now the purity of the elk in the region is at risk, because of greed and multi-thousand dollar hunts for fenced animals.
Finally the media circus loves stuff like this, gives them another chance to paint us all with the same broad brush.
If you ever want to come to Idaho for some fair chase elk or anything else, give me a holler. I've got a cabin you can use and miles of fair chase.
I was impressed in a big way by Idaho hunting. Chasing critters at 9000' was a rude awakening for me, but I had an absolute blast. I have friends that hunt New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, and Montana. All of the stories are similar to mine in that a good time has been had by all. If I could retire today I'd be a happy boy spending the rest of my days Steelhead fishing and Elk hunting. Idaho is a very nice place for such pursuits.
Happy New Year!
Outfitters in Quebec Canada will Guarantee you 2 bull caribou from several million acres of open range, is that considered not hunting?
You could come out here and I would positively Guarantee you that I colud call in a fox for you. It's up to you wether or not you pull the trigger. Is that considered not hunting?
Is this hunting? NO
Is this sporting? NO
Is this fair chase? NO
Is it wrong? NO
If it is, then our whole agricultural industry is wrong. What is the difference if a angus bull lives its whole life in a pen then is herded into a smaller pen where is is shot in between the eyes for food or a person that goes out to a 1000 acres enclosure and shoots his meat in a controlled enviroment?
What is the difference if you have chickens living in a 12"x12" pen and then slaughtered for your dinner or you go out to a pheasant farm and shoot your own?
Would I do it? NO, but I do not impose my will on those that do. I am sure these animals live a **** site better then the farm raised cattle, veal and lamb that comes conveniently wrapped in neat packages at the super market.
There are people out there that go out of season and poach a trophy buck only to boast about how they killed a great buck. There are those that spotlight and shot big bucks illegally. These are the people that are disgusting. These preserve hunters are nothing more then farmers harvesting farm raise game. Albeit different then normal, but still legal. They deserve no credit for shooting a great animal in Boone and Crocket or SCI. But they can form their own Preserve Trophy Record Club if they want. But lets get something straight here, this is far from digusting and far from an illegal activity.
A lot of these guys that hunt these preserves are also fair chase hunters like the rest of us. Lets remember something there are a lot of people whether they are handcapped, elderly or what ever that may like to have a chance a a big elk or buck that they may not be able to get otherwise.
If you take the woods out of the woodsman you have nothing left but a man in the woods.
Does either of these organizations recognize animals take in this fashion in their perspective record books?
And it isn't wrong as long as you make the distinction that it isn't hunting, sporting or fair chase. The problem is, that it is advertised as hunting, and sporting and mayebe even fair chase. So it reflects on all hunters whether they want it to or not. By having a special record book for it, SCI also legitimizes it. It is no more special than paying a farmer to shoot one of his cows or chopping off a chicken's head. So why have a record book and pretend it's hunting? Is it to recognize the magnificent feat of pulling the trigger and taking a life? Is it to recognize the farmer for his breeding and feeding program that raised an extra large animal? It certainly isn't to recognize an animal who got old and large by his cunning and strength.
And why is it so important that handicapped or old people shoot a large bull or buck that you're willing to give hunting a black eye over it. If they want to kill one in this manner, I have no problem with that, it's their ego they are feeding, but as above.......don't call it hunting! If a handicapped person drove a nail through a piece of wood, would you call them a carpenter or hire them to build you a house?
For that matter, if I drove a nail through a piece of wood, would you call me a carpenter?
And what if you had a carpenter's ranch where people could come and drive nails into a piece of wood and you guaranteed 100% success and you paid to do it. And the more money you paid, the bigger nail you got to drive into the piece of wood.
And what if a carpenter organization had a book that bragged about what a carpenter I was because I drove the largest nail ever, farther into the piece of wood than anyone else?
And then the carpenter ranch filmed people driving nails through wood. And the film focused on what nice habitat the ranch had, in this case the shop. And also focused on the large nails that were being driven into wood. And suppose it showed what a great time people were having, driving nails into wood. And it told of the nice knowledgeable people running the ranch. Basically the film would be an advertisement to come pay to drive nails on their ranch because of the quality nail driving there.
Now if someone expected me to be a carpenter because of all that and hired me to build a house for them, I'll give you a clue, it would give carpenters everywhere a bad name. And carpenters eveywhere would be justified in being upset and disgusted that carpentry was being portraited in this manner. Now if they took the mantel of carpentry ranch off the activity and called it a nail driving ranch, and got rid of the record book, carpenters would probably still chuckle at it, but they wouldn't be upset at being lumped in with this activity in the public's eye.