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Thread: Raft and SuperCubs

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    Default Raft and SuperCubs

    I have been reading the past raft posts and Mike Strahan's suggestions. Seems like most are angled towards guys on full blown dropoff float hunts. I know there are different uses and preferences and compromises. I have a few ideas, but also have a few more questions.

    I am thinking a smaller raft that will let me cover a larger area around a moose basecamp or go do a spike camp a short distance away would be the main use as opposed to drop off float hunt. Tough to pick myself up at the other end and fly back out

    Maybe with a small motor to speed things up at times for multiple loads. I talked to 4 guys that flew (not a cub) in two rafts for a moose/sheep hunt a couple years ago in the Brooks. I remember they said they put a wooden floor in them and had a small jet unit and oars. They looked like they were pretty heavy with two guys and a moose in one and two guys and two sheep and gear in the other. Now that I think about it more they may have made a couple trips each to get all that out, not sure. Anyway I don't remeber which rafts they had or how big the motor was.

    I am looking for something that I can haul in my cub. Sometimes on solo hunts with the rest of my gear. Sometimes in group hunts I would ship it out cargo or with the other hunters and then just shuttle everything/one the last few miles in my cub.

    Is this doable or am I dreaming? Suggestions (excluding buying a bigger plane)?
    Thanks

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    goose i have a SOAR pro pioneer, 85 lb fold able transom ~25 lb 2.5 merc ~35 lb oars and frame.. all for less then 200lb there are a few lighter models also aval... kinda looking for a second now too...
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    Member BlueMoose's Avatar
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    Talking Yikes

    I know several people with several opinions and there are several options.

    If I were actually looking for a boat such as you are asking for I would look to a NRS Livery none-Bailer 10' 6" at 68 lbs or 12ft at 72 lbs I have also included the 13 and 14ft Specs at the bottom.

    Nothing wrong with Vince's suggestion just that the otter would lean it-self to great base of applications IMO based on your inquiry. The fold tight and could go into a Cub and you can make or buy a take down frame and transom and still be in range Cub use.

    If I were going to look more towards Solo I would go with the 10' 6" model just over 60 lbs.

    If you wish to have more of a boat you would want to go up to 14ft making your boat 94 lbs. None-bailing boats are not for everyone however if weight is the main concern do not leave out looking hard at the Livery by NRS. Just My Opinion ;-)

    Otter Livery Series Rafts
    Our Otter Livery boats are ideal for basic whitewater, lazy rivers and lakes. It is the perfect raft to introduce you to the sport of rafting - affordably. The Otter™ Livery brand is available in five sizes that will meet everyone's' needs for getting on the water, whether it be for a day of fishing or just hanging out with family and friends. Both the tubes and floor are built with high-quality Pennel-Orca Hypalon® 1100-denier fabric. Other features include a two-chamber tube construction, 6 stainless steel 2" D-rings, removable thwarts with the exclusive NRS BATT (Batten Attachment Thwarts) System, and 2 EasyCarry™ handles. Trouble-free Leafield™ valves ensure easy inflation. Standard Floor. 5-year warranty, 3-year commercial

    Livery 106 10'6'' 4'11'' 62 16.5'' 12'' 27.5'' 24'' 4 41/1100 41/1100 6/2 63'' 48'' No $1,740.00

    Livery 120 12' 5'6'' 72 17'' 10'' 31''W x 34''L 26'' 4 41/1100 41/1100 6/2 65'' 48'' No $2,095.00

    Livery 130 13' 6'2'' 80 18'' 13'' 37''W x 44''L 28'' 5 41/1100 41/1100 6/2 72'' 60'' No $2,375.00

    Livery 140 14' 7' 94 20'' 13.5'' 45''W x 52''L 29'' 5 41/1100 41/1100 6/2 82'' 66'' No $2,635.00

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    Quote Originally Posted by goosepilot View Post
    I have been reading the past raft posts and Mike Strahan's suggestions. Seems like most are angled towards guys on full blown dropoff float hunts. I know there are different uses and preferences and compromises. I have a few ideas, but also have a few more questions.

    I am thinking a smaller raft that will let me cover a larger area around a moose basecamp or go do a spike camp a short distance away would be the main use as opposed to drop off float hunt. Tough to pick myself up at the other end and fly back out

    Maybe with a small motor to speed things up at times for multiple loads. I talked to 4 guys that flew (not a cub) in two rafts for a moose/sheep hunt a couple years ago in the Brooks. I remember they said they put a wooden floor in them and had a small jet unit and oars. They looked like they were pretty heavy with two guys and a moose in one and two guys and two sheep and gear in the other. Now that I think about it more they may have made a couple trips each to get all that out, not sure. Anyway I don't remeber which rafts they had or how big the motor was.

    I am looking for something that I can haul in my cub. Sometimes on solo hunts with the rest of my gear. Sometimes in group hunts I would ship it out cargo or with the other hunters and then just shuttle everything/one the last few miles in my cub.

    Is this doable or am I dreaming? Suggestions (excluding buying a bigger plane)?
    Thanks
    What you are talking... actually has a much higher rate of success (over the "full-blown" float a river hunt) for those with a boat & plane that can afford or have access to this means of 'float hunting'.

    For example:
    Scenario 1.) Let's say you are flown in to the general destination hunting grounds (base-camp) by beaver and ultimately shuttled there (meaning spike camping) by cub and float the lake or streams from a more local sense. Let's say you are successful in the second day of a 10-day window to hunt - contact is made, cub comes in at the earliest place on the river to meet you, everything is shuttled to a beaver landing spot and you w/ all bulk is freighted from the field (or back to base-camp). By this scenario the boat is not the 10 day-freighter and meat hauler for the duration... or at least does not have to be.

    Scenario 2.) Let's say the 'spike' hunt area is not productive for whatever reason... however the fly-boys working the air miles have spotted more productive grounds nearby on another stream, yet you have no way of access to that drainage in time. Contact is made, cub pics you up, shuttles to new area, and new float hunt chances potentially unfold.

    In both examples, smaller boat is used, multiple accessibility by air is a statistical winner, and the float is not weighed down by gotta float/freight hard for total duration on one put-in/take-out conclusion. Each scenario holds advantages for multi-species floats.

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    My second posting is more about boats.

    From your description... a few good examples for smaller boats, but none mentioned lend themselves well to using motors of any kind.

    SOAR does not have a good motor mounting option to maximize any level of performance or stability.

    Otter Livery or non-bailer rafts while more stable - without making floorboards are slugs performance-wise w/ any motor and really bad on fuel consumption. These would require installing a mount as well.

    Many self-bailers are slugs with motors plus the weight... so still not right fit per your description.

    I do have some much more suitable options to discuss - proven in the very scenarios I described by my previous posting... easiest to PM

  6. #6

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    Thanks for the input. I will pm you guys

    I saw a couple spots that I thought might work. Where I can land my cub (on wheels) on or very near a river/lake. I can hunt on foot locally or hop in raft and get further into areas that I can't land anything (wheels or floats) nor want to carry a moose out on foot that far. These spots do not have rapids and usually have a relatively consistant level and or flow of water.

    Just seems like a wheel plane and a raft gives me the most possibilities. It bridges the gap between a wheel plane and a float plane. And it should reduce the distance with a heavy pack on my back or allow me to hunt multiple animals and get the meat back to my plane so I can start flying it out while the others continue to hunt.

    I realize that a boat this light weight won't be a real performer with a small motor, but it will be better than rowing all the time. I'm not going to go on a 100 mile trip like this, just a couple miles to maybe 20 miles.

    I wished I could remember more about those guys I talked to and their equipment. I think one of them had kind of a fancy restaurant in Wasilla.

    I can fab up my own frame system and incorporate a transom. I just need to decide which raft to buy and get the specs so I can build it this summer.

  7. #7

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    Looks like a cataraft might work better with a motor. Would be same weight and load, but break down to two packages instead of one. Would the total set up weight and usable load be comparable to a round boat?

    Not finding all the same weight, load, size specs to really compare.

    Pro Pioneer rolls up to 22"x13"x45" 85lbs 1500lb load and about $2K on sale

    Aire Jaguarundi Cataraft 84lbs 1484lb load litte over $2k

    Anyone know first hand?

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    I dont have the specs handy, but I flew my 14 foot cat around for years in the cub. Mine was made by Jacks plastic welding so it was a bit lighter and maybe less durable than some of what the guys here have been recommending, but I never holed it or anything. It had 24" tubes which was nice for clearing rocks when I'd straddle them on the thinner stretches of the upper rivers. My buddy bought a 22" by 14 foot cat made by NRS and we flew it around quite a bit too, but the smaller tubes made it a bit less manuverable on the boney stuff we'd typically find on the upper stretches.

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    One issue with a cataraft is the frame. Many of these break down into small pieces, but they all add weight and cost. They can work well for fly outs in small planes, but just make sure you add in the extra weight and cost when you're comparing them to round boats.

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    How much more weight would a cata frame be over one for a round?

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    Comparing NRS Topcat or similar with a NRS Longhorn: 110 lbs to under 40 lbs. Over $1100 to under $400. So in this case, 70+ lbs and 700+ dollars.

    That may not be a fair comparison but... A round boat only needs a small, compact frame to fly in with, while a cataraft always needs a fairly complex setup even when traveling light.

    Another option with the cataraft frame is to only take a short central section of a cat frame, and cut a few trees to extend "cargo modules" off both ends. I did that once with two cats we flew into upper the Talkeetna. If you plan well, this can work acceptably well.

    You also need to add in the weight & cost of oars, but that should be similar for both.

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    SOAR does not have a good motor mounting option to maximize any level of performance or stability
    Brian could you explain this? i have not used my Soar transom as of yet but plan too this summer. it appears to be solid enough, mounts uner the tubes and up over the back with a cross bar in the center for support

    it is supposed to handle a 5 hp???

    would like to know
    thanks
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    I have a deal for you!! I have a buddy that has THE PERFECT boat! I am sure I could get him to agree to bring it if you took the three of us hunting in the brooks.

    http://www.alaskaseries.com/alaskan_jet%20ranger.htm

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    Member BlueMoose's Avatar
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    Wink Now Lujon

    Should you not state you have a boat available however not the perfect boat :-) Jim does a decent job of putting reasonable options on the market and the Jet Ranger is an option and reasonable.

    Jim is correct as always and the split frame is an option however not the most stable platfrom depending on your water type and level.

    Jim is also accruate about the weight difference and cost difference if your looking at Cat options you might want to consider the extended cost & weight of a Cat setup versus a standard round boat. You might be looking at as much as 100 - 125 lbs differnce with a Cat set up.

    IMO your still better off for flying in a small round boat with a motor mount if speed is not your major concern.

    If you are in fact going up river with a load YIKES then Lujon just might have the best option that is if you can not find someone to sell you one of Tracy'd Modified Travelers which blows the rest of the best out of the water. Might I suggest you talk to Tracy at AR&K and ask about the Power Traveler might just be the ticket if you can find one.

  15. #15

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    Just to make sure we are all on the same page, I am looking to go up and down river or around a lake rather than a real float trip downstream on class II or III. I don't need to haul 2 people and 2 moose and 10 days+ gear. I am not saying that I won't ever do real drop off float trips, just not now.

    Strutz
    Have you run both of those frames? is that an apples to apples comparision?

    I looked at some net charts trying to find apples to apples as far as load ability is concerned.
    Load Weight Frame Weight Total Useful
    Aire 143E 1620lb 136lb Big Horn 48lb 184lb 1572lb
    Big Horn II 67lb 203lb 1553lb

    Aire Lion 1800lb 96lb Top Cat 107" 118lb 214lb 1682lb
    Top Cat 120" 122lb 218lb 1678lb

    Pro Pioneer 1500lb 85lb Per Vince w/frame+oars+merc<200lb

    Looks like total weight is pretty close between similar usefull load capcity Aire's unless there are things I'm missing.
    Speaking of things missing, I'm guessing there would be more weight involved in getting a motor on a round than on a cat?

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    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    Others would know better, but it seams that it would be hard to push a raft up river against the current with any load at all, without being able to get on step.

    One or two hunters and day gear, Perfect setup for the Alaska Series Jet Ranger.

    2 Stroke 25 hp Jet. Weighs around 120lbs
    401AJR Jet Ranger Weighs around 145lbs

    Will carry over 750lbs on step at about 17 to 20mph

    This is a great setup to fly in and run up and down the river. I have had 3 adults with gear on mine and had no trouble. Here are a few pics, if you want to check it out, PM me.







    Steve

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    Member BlueMoose's Avatar
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    I would also consider the West marine AL-290 at 103 lbs.



    This Hypalon® fabric sportboat boasts features typically found only on larger, more expensive inflatables. Its oversized tubes, rugged anodized aluminum floor and weather-enduring hypalon fabric make it the perfect tender for tropical cruisers. Heavy-duty interior loops for oar storage are built-in. Includes seat, pressure gauge, oars and repair kit.

    Application: Performance Sportboat
    Fabric: 1100 decitex French Orca 215 Hypalon†
    Tube Diameter: 16-3/4"
    Number of Chambers: 3+1
    Bottom Shape: V-shape

    Floor: Anodized aluminum

    Or you need to look as well which is 77 LBS SB-310 Wood Floor Sportboat

    these outstanding sportboats offer exceptional convenience, performance and portability at a very attractive price! With premium features like marine-grade plywood floorboards and transoms, 1100 Decitex thermobonded PVC fabric and high quality accessories, you won’t find a better sportboat value. Both models include heavy-duty aluminum oars, built-in oarlocks, wooden bench, sturdy grab lines, and stainless-steel bow carry handle and towing rings. Either provides an excellent platform for exploring, fishing, diving and as a tender for your primary craft. They’re quick to plane and corner with minimal flex or wobble. Also includes bellows pump, deluxe carry bag and repair kit.

    Application: Performance Sport Boat
    Fabric: 1100 decitex PVC-coated polyester†

    Tube Diameter: 16"
    Number of Chambers: 2+1
    Bottom Shape: Inflatable V

    Floor: Marine plywood
    Transom Construction: Marine plywood

    Seam Construction: Thermobonded
    Warranty: Five years

    †NOTE: PVC fabric is rugged, durable and dependable in conditions where there is not intense UV exposure. But if you will do most of your boating in tropical conditions, a Hypalon boat will last longer because of its better resistance to UV degradation.

    Name Length Beam Weight Tube Dia. Capacity Persons Max. HP Chambers Floor Fabric
    SB-310 10'2" 4'11" 77lb. 16" 882lb. 3–4 10 2+1 Marine plywood PVC

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    or!!! you could get a P A I R (0) (0).. of small packrafts and some extra large snow shoe bindings to run up the river with
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    or!!! you could get a P A I R (0) (0).. of small packrafts and some extra large snow shoe bindings to run up the river with
    Hey - those are my Turnagain Arm mudflats extreme slippers!

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    Thumbs up Boat for the purpose...

    Inflatable boat for the purpose... is this!

    Here are a few pics of pvc version on the ocean.

    Efficient, quiet, 5 chambers (4 + 1), stable, simple lightweight motor mounting set-up... paddle it, row it, stand up, or pole it. Hunting color. 70lbs.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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