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Thread: Is my motor ruined?

  1. #1
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    Default Is my motor ruined?

    I bought a Yamaha 4 stroke 20 hp (new) three years ago. I've only had it out twice due to lack of boat for it. I was working on finishing the recomended break in period in my very old Zodiac on Kachemak Bay. I planned on using the motor/boat combo a few days later for dipnetting the Kenai so I wasn't too concerned about doing a fresh water rinse right away... Well, I got sick of the old Zodiak constantly leaking and didn't feel to comfortable with it so I got rid of it before dipnet season opened and stored the motor. I forgot about the freshwater rinse

    Now I'm looking at getting an aluminum boat. Should my motor be ok?

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    Member JOAT's Avatar
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    Motor is going to be fine. Most people don't do a freshwater rinse afterward and the motors just keep on going and going and going...

    Slap the garden hose on her and fire it up if you have the ability to do so during the winter. It's good to roll them over monthly during the winter anyway so the pistons/rings aren't sitting in the same spot for the entire off-season.
    Winter is Coming...

    Go GeocacheAlaska!

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    Member broncoformudv's Avatar
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    Default

    I am sure your motor is fine there might be a little added corrosion but that should be it. Plenty of outboards are ran in the salt year round with no fresh water wash down. One way to find out for sure it to go give her a try.
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    Default there should be some zink annodes

    check the lower unit over for zink annodes zink blocks , they usually work pretty good at taking the corrosion to save the motor.
    However if there are none, the salt will effect the metals.
    did you winterize the motor ?
    fuel conditioner,check the gear case lube and fogg the engine?
    these are equally important.
    Having been an out board mechanic working fresh water primarily, I can tell if a motor has been in salt even only once in it's lifetime.
    This makes the zink annodes all the more important to me .
    If and when you flush the engine in fresh water , make shure that it gets up to temprature, but the fact is it is only a bandaid, once the salt is in the metal it is not comming out , you are only delaying the enivitable, especially alluminum. Exhaust chambers suffer the most.
    On some of the newer motors the coatings are significantly better, but fasteners still give away the evidence in their working serfaces.heads and threads. Look closely at the serfaces and look for blisters in the paint ,a dead givaway.

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    Member JOAT's Avatar
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    I'm not buying that at all. Got a 115 sitting here that has spent over 25 years in Cook Inlet salt and occasionally KP fresh waters. It was never flushed or rinsed afterwards. It was never fogged or fed any fancy "fuel conditioners" (which are just a marketing stunt, if you ask me). Just bumped monthly through the winter and given a good check out every spring. Then it was run it and forget it all summer long with nothing special done before winter parking. There was no corrosion or blistering paint or rotting screws. No salt water related problems ever surfaced. And I won't buy the notion that salt gets "into the metal" with a single application.

    The short story is, salt water isn't going to hurt your motor. Give the thing a good spring servicing, hang it on your new aluminum boat, and go have fun.
    Winter is Coming...

    Go GeocacheAlaska!

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    hang it on your new aluminum boat, and go have fun.
    Speaking of which. I want the boat for Kenai river and K-Bay on nice days. What boat would you suggest, keeping in mind that I have a 20 hp motor (tillar steering/short shaft) and ≈ $5,000 to spend?

  7. #7

    Default Wybo,

    Motor will be okay; I'd winterize it according to factory/dealer instructions; can't go wrong and the cost is minimal for a 20 hp motor.
    Go ahead and flush the motor, rinse trailer (when you get one!) afte saltwater use. Can't go wrong there either.
    I know there will be times when this is not possible but do it when it is.

    Boat choice (20 hp will limit this): I'd go for a 16' Klamath/Bayrunner due to the high bow, flat stern, will be okay with 2 guys, gear. Alternate would be a Lund. We have a 25 4stroke yamaha on a 16' jonboat and it's perfect for 2 guys, 3 is a push (against the current on the Kenai). MUST get the 2 different props available for those motors; makes a world of difference, I was running the stock prop and didn't realize the motor was over-revving at wide open throttle running up the Kenai; I got a Tiny Tach from Cabela's (very inexpensive BTW) and was educated on what that motor was doing, plus it's fun to switch props, explore the different transom pin locations (does not have power t&t so you gotta tilt motor, reposition the "pin" in one of the other locations, which will determine your motor's angle in relation to the transom, we picked up some mph by doing this, was amazing actually. Don't be afraid to do all this stuff, it's fun, easy and usually results in better-than-anticipated results!

  8. #8

    Question Zinc talk?

    Am I missing something with the zincs talk? Aren't they for preventing electrolesis (currents in the water) and really have nothing to do with salt and what it can or can't do.

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    Member Alaskanmutt's Avatar
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    Default Salt water

    Quote Originally Posted by Myers View Post
    Am I missing something with the zincs talk? Aren't they for preventing electrolesis (currents in the water) and really have nothing to do with salt and what it can or can't do.
    Increases the galvanic corrosion between dissimilar metals.

    Think of it as the battery acid in a battery. the salt creates a path for the electic current (not as prevalent in fresh water, but present in brackish waters.

    ZINCS (notice the spelling) are sacrificial, they dissolve before the dissimilar metals according to the conditions, i.e. zinc vs aluminium vs other anodes.

    Also calling them zincs is like calling all sodas cokes.

    sacrifical anodes.

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskanmutt View Post
    ZINCS (notice the spelling)

    You lost me. Is it suppose to be all caps? Your spelling is the same as the previous poster. Also, please explain the statement about soda and cokes. I understand that all zincs are not made of zinc, some are other alloys depending on freshwater or saltwater use, but I am missing your point.

    BTW, I agree with the general statement that your motor is fine. Fire it up in the spring and go, o winterze it now if you want to spend the time on it, but it will survive if you don't.
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    ...Am I correct in saying the zincs have nothing to do with stopping salt water from corroding anything?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myers View Post
    ...Am I correct in saying the zincs have nothing to do with stopping salt water from corroding anything?

    No, you are not correct. That is what zincs do, they are the sacrificial material on your boat stopping electrolisis. Without them other metals in you boat will become sacrifical and decay.

    Here is an article that explains it better than I can.

    http://boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/012000tip3.htm
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    Default Well

    Quote Originally Posted by jrogers View Post
    You lost me. Your spelling is the same as the previous poster. Also, please explain the statement about soda and cokes. I understand that all zincs are not made of zinc, some are other alloys depending on freshwater or saltwater use, but I am missing your point..
    The others were spelling them zinKs no k just a c zinc.

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Myers View Post
    ...Am I correct in saying the zincs have nothing to do with stopping salt water from corroding anything?
    Not saying zincs aren't important, but for a boat (and engine) that live on a trailer, I would be suprised if after 30 years the zincs need to be replaced.

    It's the boats (and motors) that live in a harbor where the zincs are critical.

    And to the original question, I wouldn't worry about it. Todays motors can are very corrosion resistant, and if you don't flush the engine every trip, don't sweat it. I think it's a good practice to change the crankcase and lower end every season, depending on the recomendation of the manufacturer, winterizing may not require fogging or other special steps.

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    Default Use outboard ears

    Slap the garden hose on her and fire it up if you have the ability to do so during the winter. It's good to roll them over monthly during the winter anyway so the pistons/rings aren't sitting in the same spot for the entire off-season.[/QUOTE]

    This great advice! But one thing I would add is make sure you use outboard ears. Your Yamaha will most likely have a hose attachment on its right side. This is meant for flushing without starting the engine. If you connect to this and fire up you may very well wipe out your impellor. I had friend that did not bother to read his manual and found this out the hardway

    Happy Boating

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    Member broncoformudv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul H View Post
    Not saying zincs aren't important, but for a boat (and engine) that live on a trailer, I would be suprised if after 30 years the zincs need to be replaced.
    My boat is a 96 and all of the zincz have been replaced due to them wearing out. From what I could find they should be replaced when they are down to 25%-30% of their former self. The one on my transom was looking a little rough in 2007 so I changed it out. In 2008 I pulled the caps off my heat exchanger and the zinc in there was just about gone.

    To give you some perspective my boat is an aluminum river boat used in the salt and in fresh water and is flushed and washed after each trip. Think I do spend a little more time in the salt than in the fresh tough. Even still it spends much more time sitting on a trailer than it does bobbing on the water.
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    Default about flushing

    Like I said earlier , I can tell if a motor has been in salt just once.
    The engine needs to be brought up to temprature in the fresh water flush, other wise the metals do not expand ,gaskets will retain all depsited minerals as well as all other joints with in the cooling circut.
    Some one that is not seeing corrosin on their motor is expirenceing it some where else on their aluminum boat.
    As for fuel treatments, OMC has a product called 2+4 fuel conditioner. It works much the same as stabil. I have treated fuel systems and seen them sit 5 years them return them to the water and run like they were freshly fueled.
    The reason fogging il was invented ,is the moisture in the atmosphre gets in every thing, temp changes and barometric pressures changes drive moisture into every thing. 'The bearings in your motor are tiny rollers hi carbon steel , emagine one small beed of moisture sitting there on just one roller doing it's thing. Bearings roll against other bearing serfaces they share including any contamination . Now I know It sounds like I am making a big deal out of all this but it was my job every winter to rebuild the motors from the rental fleet. too much fun.

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Salt Chukar View Post
    Slap the garden hose on her and fire it up if you have the ability to do so during the winter. It's good to roll them over monthly during the winter anyway so the pistons/rings aren't sitting in the same spot for the entire off-season.
    This great advice! But one thing I would add is make sure you use outboard ears. Your Yamaha will most likely have a hose attachment on its right side. This is meant for flushing without starting the engine. If you connect to this and fire up you may very well wipe out your impellor. I had friend that did not bother to read his manual and found this out the hardway

    Happy Boating[/QUOTE]

    I would be more afraid of it freezing with water in it than the salt. Look how many boats sit in the harbor at Homer and Seward. They NEVER get a rinse.

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    Default just to add my two cents RE: ZINCS and corrosion

    ZIncs on a boat are there strictly as sacrificial anodes. That is to say that the zinc is a "lesser" metal (think periodic chart) and is more willing to give up its ions(think chemistry class experiment) because the ions are "unstable". Saltwater, due to its chemistry makeup(namely sodium when it reacts with oxygen) wants to take or eat the electrons(of the metals) of your nice shiny new four stroke yamaha. So when you pull your new boat out of the water after a great day on the water,there occurs a chemical reaction called oxidation in which the electrons of the zinc anode releases or gives away its electrons "sacrificially" because it is a lesser metal thus saving the metals of you nice new shiny yamaha. THe other type of chemical reaction that occurs both in salt and fresh water is electrolysis. Same principles as with oxidization, except that the reaction is caused by static or induced electricity. So we put a zinc anode on our engine so the electrons of the zinc are sacrificed" or taken by the electricity and save the metal of our engine. I had this old mercury that had some spark plug wires that were old and leaked current--high current at that--and was causing a power loss problem and was rapidly eating the zinc bar away. I didn't find the problem until I ran it at night and as i was dumbfounded and at a loss I put the metal cowling on and felt a tingle and then found that the spark plug wire was ever so slightly arcing to the metal cowling cover and causing exceesive pitting of the aluminum parts.
    disclaimer: I may not be 100% accurate on the info above but the ideas and principles are there. I remember doing this science experiment in high school on corrosion. I used these threaded zincs and carefully tapped them into different types of metals--copper, steel, lead,brass, bronze
    to see which metals were more corrosion resistant and placed them each in a cooler of saltwater. Fun times--had a guy from state ferries help me. they use electrolysis on the sewer water to treat it and kill the germs.

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    Member alaskabliss's Avatar
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    Default

    [QUOTE=Paul H;657700]Not saying zincs aren't important, but for a boat (and engine) that live on a trailer, I would be suprised if after 30 years the zincs need to be replaced.

    Not true my friend. My 05 T-Jet see's alot of salt and fresh water and I have already had to replace the zincs in the heat exchanger. I do flush my motor after salt. I feel every boat is going to be different depending on where they run, how they rinse it and even how their electronics grounded. The zinc is a cheap replacement item that should be looked at annually. Just my opinion though

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