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Thread: Deshka is it going to be better

  1. #1

    Default Deshka is it going to be better

    Just wondering what all of you folks think, if the Deshka will be
    worth fishing this spring or not. On that note will the Little Su
    be worth fishing this spring. I have had bad luck for the past
    two years fishing for kings, Iam not saying that I haven't caught any
    I am just saying that the fishing has sucked for kings the last few
    years. I wonder if the fishing is going to get any better or is it going to get worse. Really I cant wait to hit the river weather if its good fishing or bad fishing, is it ever bad when your on the river though.

  2. #2
    Member rimfirematt's Avatar
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    I was looking at the run counts for the deshka over the last 5 years and it has been on a steady decline. Im not optimistic about any of the valley streams this year. Nobody seems to know what is going on with the salmon.
    There was an article I read and a bioligist things we are in a major crash cycle right now that could take many years to come back up. Like 20 years! He says this happened once in the 70's or 80's

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    Member sheep man's Avatar
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    I say were in for another slow season....
    I ♥ Big Sheep

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Know one knows? Could it have anything to do with the floods a few years ago and the ensuing pike infestation?

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    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    Know one knows? Could it have anything to do with the floods a few years ago and the ensuing pike infestation?
    I'm guessing the run will be better than last year, although thats purely a guess as I haven't seen any age class data yet (it should be floating around the internet somewhere soon) I think the drought in 2004 then subsequent flooding really hurt the run, I remember fishing upper willow in august and seeing kings stacked up in deep pools instead of on beds and water temperatures in the 70s I can't imagine that helped anything.

    I'm optimistic for this year 2006 was a fairly normal summer so hopefuly it'll help.

    As far as Pike go they are not a significant predator on chinook smolt due to the habitat that chinook live in, pike are much more likely to have a large impact on coho.
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    Member AlaskaHippie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    Know one knows? Could it have anything to do with the floods a few years ago and the ensuing pike infestation?
    I'm not too sure about the effect the flood(s) have had, however I've seen firsthand the habitat issues that are certainly having an impact. I've floated Moose Creek for the past couple of summers (Moose and Kroto Creek join to form the Deshka for those who don't know) and the explosion of the beaver and pike population on that upper stretch is nothing short of catastrophic. Beaver dams block the entire channel in over 2 dozen places along a roughly 20 mile stretch. Every dam we encountered last June had Kings stacked up downstream of it, they simply got choked off at the dams and were beating themselves up trying to get past these things (some where as high as 10'-12'). These dams not only blocked off the creek, and stalled the salmon, they also created sloughs and slow, brackish water areas where (you guessed it) we noted a good number of Pike in almost all of these areas. No real size to them, but a good amount of hammer handles and a notable amount of fingerling/juveniles.
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Interesting hippie, perhaps we need to get together a bunch of conibears and that rubber boat of yours and make a couple passes when trapping season opens up. Just trap it out, or as close to it as we can get.

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    sounds like you need to file a few mining claims up in that country... then you can buy some TNT for EXPLORATION
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    Default Anyone know where I can get some dynamite?

    I love beavers, per say, but... if it is killing our valley fisheries, I say let us get it over with, period!! You can even move all beavers out of a dam by jumping on top of it for a few minutes. Done it before, then just blow it up. If this is done in the summer months, they will have time to rebuild, hopefully, some where else. I can't think of a state law that says you cannot blow up an unoccupied beaver dam, as long as you don't kill them outright. If I am wrong, somebody jump down my throat and let me know. Until then, I will keep searching for something that makes a big bang.
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Member AlaskaHippie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    Interesting hippie, perhaps we need to get together a bunch of conibears and that rubber boat of yours and make a couple passes when trapping season opens up. Just trap it out, or as close to it as we can get.

    It'd take more than one boatload judging by the numbers I saw. Oz has some pics of the creek posted in his gallery, pretty impressive population of 'em. Just over 2 summers it seems the number of dams/lodges tripled from my observations. That stretch of water is closed to Kings and isn't powerboat friendly (for most folks, I know tjm ) so it has been left to languish with no notable efforts put into resolving the problems.

    I'm down for some spring recon on Moose Crk, I've got 2 rafts which I'll offer to the cause......
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
    "Character is how you treat those who can do nothing for you."

  11. #11
    Member AlaskaHippie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    I love beavers, per say, but... if it is killing our valley fisheries, I say let us get it over with, period!!
    I'm sure Nerka or Grampy could chime in with some concrete data, but I know from "boots on the ground" experience that a lot of the watersheds here in the Valley could do with some beaver/pike management. I'm sure a lot of it comes down to funding and manpower, but something needs to give....
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
    "Character is how you treat those who can do nothing for you."

  12. #12
    Member tzieli22's Avatar
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    Default Come On...

    It's going to be HOT!!! I can hear it now,

    THE KINGS ARE IN, LETS GO FISHIN!!!

    We can only hope right.

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    Member Raptor_1's Avatar
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    I hope so! I caught a 50lb king on sheep two years ago, but didn't get to fish last summer since I was deployed. I know the kings on the valley steams were lack luster last summer, but I hope they come back this year! I have two years worth of salmon fishing to catch up on this summer!
    Alaska: We're all here cuz we're not all "there"

  14. #14
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaHippie View Post
    I'm sure Nerka or Grampy could chime in with some concrete data, but I know from "boots on the ground" experience that a lot of the watersheds here in the Valley could do with some beaver/pike management. I'm sure a lot of it comes down to funding and manpower, but something needs to give....
    I am not sure what the legal requirements would be but a winter blasting expedition could do a lot. If you take out the dams in the winter it would pretty much eliminate the beaver problem in a weekend.

    I know that there used to be a lot of beavers on the upper Wasilla creek area but a year of heavy trapping and **** destruction now that area is filled w/ spawning Chinook. That took place in the mid 90's and the area is still clear.

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    I am not sure what the legal requirements would be but a winter blasting expedition could do a lot. If you take out the dams in the winter it would pretty much eliminate the beaver problem in a weekend.

    I know that there used to be a lot of beavers on the upper Wasilla creek area but a year of heavy trapping and **** destruction now that area is filled w/ spawning Chinook. That took place in the mid 90's and the area is still clear.
    winter blasting will kill them all off by destroying the pond and food beds.

    back when it was easy to get we could use the TNT to remove dams in the spring and summer as the beaver had time to move proir to winter.

    they had to be interfereing with crop or access for dam removal... BTW Whop2000


    Beaver DO NOT LIVE IN THE DAM.... they live in the banks or a lodge in the center of the pond.

    mining operations have some of a little lee way also in dam removal. however will still be under spring summer guidelines...

    your not trying to kill an animal off for doing what it does..
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  16. #16
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    I don't blame mice for doing what they do, but when they move into my garage I can assure you that sealing up the place and getting all the food out doesn't make them leave. I break out the little cheese shaped boxes of de-con and w/ in 2-3 week my problem is gone. I can't imagine that the beavers are going to just pick up and leave home because we blasted their dams, especially not if it is as built up as portrayed. It would appear that the beavers are moving into this area because it is suitable habitat and that they had over run their prior territory requiring expansion.

    If the beavers are the cause and considering that Chinook salmon spawn in shallow fast moving stream (essentially the polar opposite of beaver ponds) it is quite probable that it is a significant factor then they should be eliminated in the most expedient fashion. If there is substantial biological support that it can be done by destroying dams in the spring and the beaver will just move then that is fine. However if the tendency is for them to just rebuild or to start again in the same drainage then more permanent measures need to be taken.

  17. #17
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    however Jon.. in this state things have a ballance and must be done legal like and all..

    YOU WANTING to go fishing is not likely going to get you much support..

    trapp them out and kill the dams with the proper paperwork and you will never have an issue i would bet


    but if you go up there and start busting them, and letting them die off.. would bet you get some stiff fines at least.

    you have to remember that beaver dams and ponds create a diversifed ecological habitat...for more species then their own they will not allow you to remove them for the sake a salmon.
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

    meet on face book here

  18. #18
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Lots gets done in this state for the sake of the salmon. I am not advocating the wanton destruction of beaver with no science but I am saying that the bio's need to get out there and IF they are the cause then they should be removed as cost effectively and efficiently as possible. It should be done in a manner that ensures that it will not be a problem in the near future. I know that I have seen what the removal of the beaver from upper Wasilla creek has done for the salmon habitat. There are miles of spawning salmon in an area that used to be packed with beavers, unfortunately there is no weir data that I am aware of to provide more than personal observation.

    This is not "a" salmon

    Here is the info from the weir for the last decade.

    1999 29,649
    2000 35,242
    2001 29,004
    2002 29,427
    2003 40,069
    2004 57,934
    2005 37,725
    2006 31150
    2007 18,714
    2008 7,533
    2009 11,960

  19. #19

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    this very thing was talked about, the down swing in numbers.

    it had more to do with ocean currents and water temperature then anything else. wish I could remember where I saw the article at but I thought it was posted on here. If memory serves me right it effected kings more then the other 4 species, but dont quote me here.

  20. #20
    Member BlueMoose's Avatar
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    Default **** Beavers

    Interesting post concerning the decline in the fishery and potential run for the system Dam beavers any who.

    That is not to say there is not a potential problem with the influx of Pike into the system from additional beaver activity which would be a double whammy however with all things in life there is more than likely several reasons to inlcude we the people that have caused some of the problem as well.

    I am all up for Beaver Bashing but Vince is correct better to find out the rules and stay cool then to go in a bad direction and get free photo's taken by the Man.

    Just a thought.

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