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Thread: Is this a guide/transporter forum?

  1. #1

    Default Is this a guide/transporter forum?

    I joined this forum several months ago when I received orders to move to Anchorage (Air Force). My intent, like others I hope, is to learn as much about hunting Alaska as possible before I arrive. Lately the threads have turned to the discussion of guiding and transporting which leads to this post.

    I am an avid hunter but have never felt the necessity or urge to hire a guide. Now don't get me wrong, Alaska is a very dangerous place and an inexperienced outdoorsman can get himself killed. An experienced guide might be necessary to teach people such as myself how to survive and navigate in the harsh environment of Alaska, but in essence arent people paying thousands of dollars for someone to hunt for them? I am getting sick of seeing or reading about guided hunts where some guy with a $1000 hunting outfit (tag still on it) follows a guide around the woods and then shoots a trophy. Is there any satisfaction in that?

    I am unfamiliar with the use of transporters, I think Alaska is pretty unique in its lack of road systems and reliance on air and water transport. Is it true that certain areas are off limits to transporters due to guide usage?

  2. #2
    Member svehunter's Avatar
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    I agree,alot lately has been about guides.But i dont agree with your statment of non satisfaction with guides,i think it is a great satisfaction hunting with somebody who knows his land and game better then you.And yes some areas are for guide use only

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    Member RainGull's Avatar
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    Digdug73, I agree whole heartedly, welcome to the kings forest!

    The above post says it clear enough "knows his land."

  4. #4
    Member svehunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RainGull View Post
    Digdug73, I agree whole heartedly, welcome to the kings forest!

    The above post says it clear enough "knows his land."
    What do you mean by kings forest?

  5. #5
    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    lol here we go again...
    the satisfaction a client gets with a guide depends soley on the client, some are great participators in their hunt, spotting game, glassing, stalking, skinning, butchering, you name it. others just use a guide to find it for them, point a finger at it and shoot. its like beauty, its in the eyes of the beholder. some people hire others to do work for them, simple concept. same with hunting. my dad does all his own maintainence on his house, i don't have the knowhow, time or savy to do that on my own, i need help. some hunters don't have the common sense, time, motivation, drive, need, some aren't physically able to go out and learn from trial by error thats why they hire guides. guide success rate is almost double that of a DIY hunter.
    its not the kings forest, its not his country, or his land. what they mean when they say his area is its his guide area. he don't own it or have it the right to keep residents out, thats strickly a landowner issue, they regulate who is allowed on their land, not the guides, i most cases. as you've read in some of the other posts guides "seem" to have locked up areas to keep to themselves, some may have, but no area is EVER LOCKED up from everyone.

  6. #6
    Member svehunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRWNBR View Post
    lol here we go again...
    the satisfaction a client gets with a guide depends soley on the client, some are great participators in their hunt, spotting game, glassing, stalking, skinning, butchering, you name it. others just use a guide to find it for them, point a finger at it and shoot. its like beauty, its in the eyes of the beholder. some people hire others to do work for them, simple concept. same with hunting. my dad does all his own maintainence on his house, i don't have the knowhow, time or savy to do that on my own, i need help. some hunters don't have the common sense, time, motivation, drive, need, some aren't physically able to go out and learn from trial by error thats why they hire guides. guide success rate is almost double that of a DIY hunter.
    its not the kings forest, its not his country, or his land. what they mean when they say his area is its his guide area. he don't own it or have it the right to keep residents out, thats strickly a landowner issue, they regulate who is allowed on their land, not the guides, i most cases. as you've read in some of the other posts guides "seem" to have locked up areas to keep to themselves, some may have, but no area is EVER LOCKED up from everyone.
    Of course it depens on the hunter etc,but i speak for myself when i say it can be a really satisfying feeling to
    hunt with someone who have more experience and know ho about the game etc,it can be a learning experience

  7. #7
    Member Toddler's Avatar
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    Angry Old Ref

    In the 1400's all of the land was the KINGS. The Surfs (the people who woreked the land for the king or read resident Alaskans - as the case fits) were not allowed to hunt without the KINGs permission. If you were caught hunting without the KINGs permission you were hung and your family was forced off of the land that you had farmed. A lot of us residents feel that many guides are lobying/manipulating the system so that they are the only ones who control the access to the land and that the guides are trying to push us out now. I fully agree with this opinion.

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    Member RainGull's Avatar
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    The king represents the government. The analogy fits plain and simple.

    If a guide refers to it as his area and means that as the area that he is assigned then fine, and I hope that is the majority view, but certainly the view is also held among SOME guides that it is his area. It only takes one bad apple to spoil it for the whole bunch, and that means that you guides had better start policing your ranks better lest you start to be associated with the minority view amongst guides.

    I do not apologize for the aspertions cast on the guiding industry here. Without pressure nothing changes. I hope that instead of fighting us here, you will contact the parties in question and tell them that you dont appreciate them giving guiding a black eye, instead of telling us that we should not point out the problems.

    I and others will continue to do so until we receive assurances that things have and will change.

  9. #9

    Default Hunting without guides

    I came to Alaska in 1984 in the Air Force. I got here with all of the wide-eyed enthusiasm as nearly every newcomer experiences. I was raised in a hunting and fishing family and lifestyle. I shot my first rabbit at 5 years old with my dad with a .22. What I saw when I got here was quite the shock to me. I was initially opposed to the first year guide requirements. (Military personnel that have not been in state for one year are required to hunt as a non-resident, except on military lands. However, the non-resident tags are 1/2 price).
    Here I was a very experienced hunter and outdoorsman being treated like a city-slicker just because I was new in Alaska.
    However, it didn't take me long to realize just how good this requirement was. I was lucky enough to make friends with some very experienced Alaskan hunters and fishermen, both in the military and civilian. They taught me more than I can ever thank them for, and showed me that yes, Alaska is unique and can and will kill you if you are unprepared or think it is like hunting in Kansas. I STRONGLY agree with the guide requirement for new and non-resident hunters for dangerous or mountain game. Personally, I think it should be expanded to all big game, strictly for the safety aspect. I saw many, many people come up here from the Bronx or from Chicago that never hunted in their life, but got stationed in Alaska, went and bought the biggest gun they could fiind and thought themselves as the Great White Hunter. Most were either quite unsuccessful or got themselves in serious trouble real quick. Others, like me, that had hunting backgrounds coming from places like Arkansas, Texas, Tennessee, come with excellent experience and background in hunting those areas, but don't understand the perils and differences of hunting Alaska. Some, like me, take all the advise and go with as many experienced hunters as possible to learn, but some don't think they need any "coaching", and get themselves in all kinds of trouble. Hunting is hunting, Right??????
    Bottom line, it stinks to be new here or a non-resident, but when you do get here and see the reason it is the way it is, you will probably be glad it is this way. That is, if you actually get away from the overused easy access and generally safe areas of this state. There isn't much chance of running into an angry grizzly or having the experience and need to know avalanche dangers if you hunt outside of Memphis or Indianapolis. Here, this is a possibility anywhere you go.
    I have never paid for a guide, and never will. For me, that would be a huge waste of money. If I was a non-resident or inexperienced and wanted to go after dangerous game, I sure would, even at the astronomical prices they generally charge.
    However, what seems to be outrageous prices to some are not that out of line for what they have to contend with from most clients and their overhead expenses. Anyone that doesn't like or thinks their prices are unfair have 2 choices. Pay or don't go.
    They are just like taxidermists when the cost is questioned. I used to think taxidermist were charging way too much for mounts until I met and got to know a few. I have worked with a couple friends that are taxidermists, and their cost of doing business is extremely high. Unless you get a taxidermist not worth spit, what they charge you is a darned good price. Most wouldn't or don't believe what their costs for equipment and supplies really are. When you deduct the actual prices for these supplies and the costs of tanning, their hourly wage scale is actually quite small. The same with guides.

    I have had 2 run-ins with a guide and an assistant guide while hunting on public lands, because I was in "their" area. They left, I didn't. Took a nice sheep and a very nice goat on those trips, too. These actions by guides or their operations is my only objection to any of them. These types are few and very far between from what I know or hear of. Just because they are taking someone that is paying them $12,000.00 for a bear hunt is no reason to interfere with my pursuit of that same bear. I would never try to "race" anyone to any game, but if I am legitimately in an area, I will hunt it as I see fit and if someone else doesn't like it, tough. That guide that just got convicted for using his airplane as a weapon because someone else was in "his" area is an extreme example of those idiots that are out there, but the percentage is small.
    When it comes to transporters, I have never had any transporting operation refuse to take me into any area I wanted to go if it was open. I have had a couple discourage me in certain area's but this was because they saw little or no game in there I was interested in. I even had one fly me over the area so I could judge for myself, and I was quite thankful he did, as there was nothing there (caribou migration). After discussions with them, they flew my into different areas where I was successful. But I have honestly not tried to have them fly me into any area that was contentious for them. Not that I avoided it, but I just never hunted there.

    Just my take on it.........
    Now just why in the hell do I have to press "1" for English???

  10. #10
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    Red face

    Welcome digdug many times a persons fist impressions are right, and I think yours are here. I also am a DIY hunter. It's just the way I like to hunt I enjoy the planning, scouting, in short the feeling of acomplishment that comes with the whole package.There is lots of info available for DIY hunters here, read the older threads. Many questions are asked, and asked again, so you will have to do some searching.Some folks just listen, others advise others advertise, use it as part of their bussness I guess? Plenty of nice folks too, there are also some cranky ones, you will be able to tell who's who from the tone of their answers. Bill.

  11. #11
    Member gusuk1's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Agree To Guide/troporters Forum-but---

    As stated in another thread i think it would be good to have a guide forum although i see a lot of great input and information posted here from guides/transporters.free of charge.lol.

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    Member RainGull's Avatar
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    Using the same logic then do you support a guide requirement for campers, fishermen in high bear areas, cross-country skiers and snow machine users?

    I think that guides offer an invaluable service, and if I were so inclined to use the cliff notes for Alaskan hunting, I would. I however would rather learn it myself. (not to mention that I couldn't afford a guide!) You had friends show you the ropes, and that is wise.

    As far as looking at the guide requirement in terms of safety, I do not support seat-belt requirements either, nor helmet laws. People should be able to make their own informed decisions in these matters.

  13. #13

    Default Guide requirements

    Thats just it. Non-residents and new residents are not capable of making an informed decision about the true dangers of hunting dangerous or mountain game in Alaska. That's the whole point.
    No, I don't support that angle at all. When fishing, skiing, etc., you are not intentionally going after something or in areas that can kill you.
    Now just why in the hell do I have to press "1" for English???

  14. #14
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    Wink

    Hmm? Let me get this right so if my drivers licence reads Alaska resident I am safe to hunt mountain sheep, goats, and large bears solo. Even if I have 37 years experience as a hunter camper??

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    I can find no logic in the guide requirement for Alaska for goat,sheep and BB. But thank god its there or we'd be overrun and overcongested to unimaginable levels from lower 48 hunters, and knowing Alaska's motives ($) in most F&G decisions they would allow it.

  16. #16
    New member akhunter02's Avatar
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    Default Safety, Yea Right

    Safety is no reason for a guide requirement, it doesnt pass the logic test. You can be dropped off in the middle of no where, hike over any mountain pass you like without a guide, you can climb any mountian you like to take up close pics of sheep, goats, bears, and again no guide required. Lets face it, its all about the money. Granted if there were no guide requirement the mountains would be full of out of staters, but if you put in place a draw for all Non Res for all species F&G could control harvests

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    I wonder if the average Joe would consider climbing Denali without a guide. Doing so takes technical knowledge, area familiarity, and experience. You might survive but you probably wouldn't be sucessful. How fun is that?

    Hiring a guide is usually a good investment. The less familiar you are with a particular area or species the more valuable that guide becomes.

  18. #18
    Member shphtr's Avatar
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    ....safe - that depends on the individual, REGARDLESS of years experience and/or residency. But legal - yes if you are a legal resident for at least one year.

  19. #19
    New member akhunter02's Avatar
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    Default Good Idea

    I didnt say it wasnt a good idea or worth the investment, im just saying its not a safety issue, and you cant compair climbing Denali to hunting sheep

  20. #20
    Member RainGull's Avatar
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    Nor is it illegal to climb McKinley without a guide as far as I know. Nor is it illegal to hang strips of bacon on your clothes and go fish Russian River. Nor is it illegal to go riding off on a snow machine at 60 below without a guide when you move here nor is it...

    Do we really need the government to round of all of the sharp corners for us? How about removing poky sticks? That is absurd, and that is my point.

    So back to the original post unfortunately this is not the Alaska it once was, but don't get discouraged you'll love it anyway. It is still a danged site better than the states. So plan on having the time of your life and then make that the case when you come and it will happen. Nothings perfect, but don't we have a heck of a time anyways!!?

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