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Thread: Has anyone ever had this problem?

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    Default Has anyone ever had this problem?

    I had a Ruger M77 MK II in 7mm-08. I had a few problems with this rifle that I eventually got sorted out with the help of Dennis Olsen In Plains, MT.
    Here is the problem I still can't figure; This little rifle kicked like a mule. It had done this right out of the box and eventually Mr. Olsen made a custom muzzle brake that tamed this rifle considerably. But the initial problem of why the gun kicked so dang hard was never solved. Anybody have any experience with this problem? Could it have been due to head spacing? The type of ammo it ate made no difference. It bucked unbelievably.

    I'd tell people that there was something wrong with the rifle (that it kicked like a mule) and usually they would scoff until they shot it. My .338 with a pachmyer decelerator was a ***** cat compared to this gun.

    This gun was not accurate by any means and had dang erratic shot patterns.

    I eventually took the gun to Dennis Olsen and he accurized the rifle for me and as stated earlier, hand-crafted a muzzle brake for it. He told me that Ruger had started mfg. these rifles with a single point (pillar) that protruded through the bed and the barrel tended to come to rest on this spot, which "de-tuned" the barrel. I hope I stated that correctly, because Mr. Olsen is one of the best gunsmiths in the world. I was lucky he just happen to live near the area I was guiding in. This is what I recall him saying to me on the accuracy issue, and any error in this statement is due to my bad memory and not his vaste knowledge of smithing.

    When I got this rifle back from Mr. Olsen, it kicked like a .22 and could place 3 shop groups in a .50 pc at 300 yd.s, and that is absolutely no exageration.

    I came on hard times, and my outfitter was nice enough to buy the gun from me at a good price. He told me if I ever wanted to buy it back when times were better for us, he'd sell it back to me.

    I bought this rifle for my wife and she took her first big game animal with it (an antelope at 326 yd.s),she is a small woman (5') and now my son who is 12 YO is ready to start hunting as well. It always bothered me that I sold my wife's rifle. I should not have sold it, but as I said, we had a new baby and no food in the cupboard at the time. Now I am thinking of buying the rifle back and it occured to me that I never did figure out why this little gun kicked so hard. Any ideas? Sorry for the long email.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Saw a 243 chamber gun that had a 223 bore once that kicked hard but it wasn't a Ruger

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    I don't know about a Ruger (and haven't had the same sort of issue with any of my Rugers in any caliber, in any case), but my wife had a Howa 1500 in 7mm-08 (stock, no brake or the like) we shot a fair bit before giving it to my dad. That rifle kicked about like a SKS, if that helps, so certainly nothing on the order of what you described.

    I realize the above might not help much, but at least it describes what I consider more "normal" recoil in that caliber. I wondered if the way you mentioned Ruger did that bit with the pillar is the sole cause, but then you'd think if it were simply that then there would be many other posts around the internet about their rifles in that caliber being not-the-happy to shoot. Sorry couldn't help more on this one.

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    Spook, it was my understanding that the fix to the acurracy problem was to file away that point and place some sort of "cradle" in the bedding instead (hope I got that right), but that never addressed to incredible kick of the rifle. The muzzle brake ended up taming the kick, but to my knowledge, the reason for the problem was not found.

    GH

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    Stock design has a lot to do with felt recoil. But math is math. I really don't see how it could "kick" more than a 338 Win Mag.
    So to answer your question, no, I never experienced this type of problem nor heard about it until now.
    Tennessee

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    I'm guessing it was scope position relative to your hold and build. If scope mounts are too low and you've got big cheek bones like I do, you have to nestle your head down so low that the stock comb whacks the snot out of your face (literally) every time you pull the trigger. If the stock was too long or short for you, that would also alter the way it hit you.

    Did the smith change the scope rings or add a pad, by chance?

    That's the first thing I check before buying a rifle. Mount it to my shoulder so the comb doesn't come right up against my cheek bone, then have someone hold the scope in place to approximate ring height. Makes a huge difference in how a gun smacks me or anyone else.

    I've got an original 450 Alaskan Model 71 with peep sights. Kicks hard enough with heavy loads that you can have trouble keeping your front foot on the ground if you don't stand right. It's a *****cat for me to shoot, but it absolutely clocks a buddy of mine. And this guy shoots a 460 Wby for fun! And sure enough, his Weatherby clangs my clock. I bet it wouldn't though, if I got higher rings and got my cheek bone off the top of the comb.

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    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    Was it one of the Ruger ultralights? I have a ruger M77 mk II ultralight, and it is pretty lively in recoil. There are two issues, one is the ruger red recoil pads are just hard, hard rubber and hence do little to mitigate the recoil, the other is the u/l's are fairly light.

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    +1 for What BrownBear stated about scope position and cheek slapping. Absolutely no fun at all.

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    We built a 50AK a while back for the boss to use on bear hunts, and we still aren't 100% sure but think maybe the bore had a tight spot in it. We used a .510 Pac-Nor SS match barrel and that thing would absolutely punish you. It didn't matter who was behind it, everyone thought it kicked the snot out of them. I know the 50AK is no light weight in the recoil dept but this thing was almost unbelievable. One day some guy came in and had to have it even after we warned him so down the road it went. As soon as that one was gone I built another to the same exact specs, Pac-Nor and all, and what do ya know, this thing is a ***** cat. Both guns were extremely accurate, the first one was just a mean kicker, don't know to this day what the true explanation is, and probably never will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowwolfe View Post
    Stock design has a lot to do with felt recoil.
    Exactly, I agree 100%. I've had several of them and this is my conclusion. I'm not bashing the M77, I think it's a fine rifle but better stocks are available. My oldest son has one in '06' and I assure you, it will kick the crap out of you. My .338 Win Mag M700 is much more fun to shoot. I think it's the drop of the comb in the factory stock.

    JMHO
    Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

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    lujon and I have experienced EXACTLY what you are referring to. I thought i was crazy when I looked at my shoulder the next day and it looked like mike tyson puched me.....then figured he'd use a baseball bat instead. This rifle was a 260 remington. After I glass bedded it.....things became slightly better....but not much. certain models of ruger stocks have very thin a small/hard recoil pads. That 260 reminton to this day.......is the hardest kicking rifle I've ever shot. Lujon may be able to further articulate his experiences with his compact model 308. I'm guessing the rifle was either an ultralight or a compact model as they have very thin and small "rear ends".....yah u know.......a boney one

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    Grits, I've never experienced that myself, but it sounds like a weight and stock design issue. Have you tried to get ahold of your outfitter yet to get that tack driver back? I'll bet your son would be proud to have it.

    The other 299,300,000 people can have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak View Post
    lujon and I have experienced EXACTLY what you are referring to. I thought i was crazy when I looked at my shoulder the next day and it looked like mike tyson puched me.....then figured he'd use a baseball bat instead. This rifle was a 260 remington. After I glass bedded it.....things became slightly better....but not much. certain models of ruger stocks have very thin a small/hard recoil pads. That 260 reminton to this day.......is the hardest kicking rifle I've ever shot. Lujon may be able to further articulate his experiences with his compact model 308. I'm guessing the rifle was either an ultralight or a compact model as they have very thin and small "rear ends".....yah u know.......a boney one
    yep! My wifes M77 compact in 308 is the only rifle I own that I grimace at the thought of pulling the trigger on. It has a thin butt and a short LOP which is punishing to shoot. That said my wife who is much shorter than I am will run most of a box of shells through it with out much problem. Since it is her rifle so it stays.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak View Post
    lujon and I have experienced EXACTLY what you are referring to. I thought i was crazy when I looked at my shoulder the next day and it looked like mike tyson puched me.....then figured he'd use a baseball bat instead. This rifle was a 260 remington. After I glass bedded it.....things became slightly better....but not much. certain models of ruger stocks have very thin a small/hard recoil pads. That 260 reminton to this day.......is the hardest kicking rifle I've ever shot. Lujon may be able to further articulate his experiences with his compact model 308. I'm guessing the rifle was either an ultralight or a compact model as they have very thin and small "rear ends".....yah u know.......a boney one

    My buddy in Oregon had a Ruger in 260 traded for it, this was a good 8 years ago. The lady he got it from told him it kicks. He was like whatever, gets some ammo takes off to the range with his new prize fired it and he told me it was the worse thing he ever shot. Coming from a guy who sits at the bench with a 375-338 or 416 taylor and will shoot them all day long. He took that 260 to the next gunshow traded it for a Leupold scope and walked away happy. I got my wife one of the Hawkeye's in a 7mm-08 and that thing is a *****cat 10 year old kids shoot it loaded with 154gr hornady's...

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    mainer_in_ak will like this story...

    College days back in Maine - I got a 'deal' on an ol' H&R Topper model. It was an early model single-shot break-open in 16 ga. with the lever atop the tang vs. push button beside the hammer on today's model. I got it off a woodsman that drove a skiddeh' for a livin' and this shotty had always been along for the rides.

    Well... it must have fallen out a few times and gotten skidded oveh' a time-r-2... because the barrel had a nice, even bend - likely made from the huge tires running over it on the top of soft forest floor.

    It was that slight arc that made for one heck of a turkey-shoot competition! On first shot, not a one was gonna get lucky enough to hit the target. Subsequently, nobody wanted to take a second shot due to the sharp, near devastating recoil that about planted most on the ground and reddened up cheekbones in prize-fight fashion.

    Honestly... back then It was funny as all get out... even watching the biggest macho fat guys and good ol' hockey playing backwoods boys get floored, get up slowly whimpering bruised a bit, then shaking the cobwebs of complete surprise off and imparting a big grin in the end.

    We all felt like we were on grouse safari with a 16000Nitro-dinosaur-smoking-somethingor other.

    Anyway... firing that bent barrel, in a light gun, no matter the load, could really get your attention!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Richardson View Post
    mainer_in_ak will like this story...

    College days back in Maine - I got a 'deal' on an ol' H&R Topper model. It was an early model single-shot break-open in 16 ga. with the lever atop the tang vs. push button beside the hammer on today's model. I got it off a woodsman that drove a skiddeh' for a livin' and this shotty had always been along for the rides.

    Well... it must have fallen out a few times and gotten skidded oveh' a time-r-2... because the barrel had a nice, even bend - likely made from the huge tires running over it on the top of soft forest floor.

    It was that slight arc that made for one heck of a turkey-shoot competition! On first shot, not a one was gonna get lucky enough to hit the target. Subsequently, nobody wanted to take a second shot due to the sharp, near devastating recoil that about planted most on the ground and reddened up cheekbones in prize-fight fashion.

    Honestly... back then It was funny as all get out... even watching the biggest macho fat guys and good ol' hockey playing backwoods boys get floored, get up slowly whimpering bruised a bit, then shaking the cobwebs of complete surprise off and imparting a big grin in the end.

    We all felt like we were on grouse safari with a 16000Nitro-dinosaur-smoking-somethingor other.

    Anyway... firing that bent barrel, in a light gun, no matter the load, could really get your attention!
    crazy!

    my mothah found it to be benneficial to try and impress me with a new 12 gauge single shot. it happened to be a 12 gauge topah. (nef pardner). didnt mattah what i pointed it at......all was dead in the frezah. but yeah......that single shot "wall-maht" special did kick something fiercely......especially with 12 gauge 3in. magnum breneke slugs I used to try and impress the woodsman by walking back to the house with a full limit of patridge tied to the barrel of that honory single shot as i walked back up the road to the house from the skidah trails.

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    I'm guessing stock design was the culprit...

    I've had some fierce recoiling rifles that didn't bother me a bit- a .375, a couple of .338s, a featherweight .300.... all shootable and not a single problem.

    I offered to mount a scope and sight in my buddy's rifle while he travelled on business so we could be ready for carribou the following week.

    He brings over a M77 All Weather with the boat paddle stock and that rifle was downright ridiculous in the kick department. Left a bruise and all.... from a .270 Winchester no less! I was surprised at how hard such a little gun jolted the daylights out of me despite having much more powerful rifles at home. No coincidence as it had the single worst stock I think I've ever felt on a rifle.

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    BBear, Not sure it would have been a "fit" or stock issue as this little tiger was not prejudous (sp?), it kicked the Poo out of everybody who shot it, all different shapes and sizes. Not discounting the idea, and I would have never thought of that angle. But it was so amazing to me that this little rifle kicked so hard, that I had almost all the guides in camp shoot it just to see them grimace when they shot "my wife's" rifle. LOL

    It sounds like some rifles just kick like the dickens, and I'm wondering if the kid didn't nail it on the tight spot in the bore. BTW, you Nor' Easters are pretty funny (talkin').
    The rifle has a laminate stock, stock ruger rings and I replaced the Butt pad almost immediately with a limbsaver. I mounted a Burris 3-9X40 FF II on it (as I do with almost all my BA's.)
    AKSoldier, it's funny that you mention if I'd talked to my old outfitter lately, 'cause I was just talking to my wife about buying the rifle back. She was a little non-commital only because even though he said it sell it back to me, he also mentioned that he was going to buy it for his grandson to shoot. We all think the world of their family, so not sure what I'll do. I've been looking at a Browning microhunter in .270 wsm. I'm seeing a few of those at around $600 NIB now that the X-bolts are out. Also, been looking at the new Sako A7 of the same caliber, but have to research the LOP issue on that one. On the one hand that little ruger was fixed up just perfect. I can't say enough about the accuracy and consistency of that little rifle after we had all the work done to it. I've never seen a short barreled, short actioned rifle before or since that is that accurate without a bull barrel and match ammo.
    On the other hand, if I get my wife a new rifle, I can get her a .270 wsm and feel more comfortable about her (or my boy) using it to hunt elk, deer, Blk Bear or even Moose with (Pls. try not to put in anyone's .02 about .270 and moose). It will take a bit more coin (again) to have it accurized and maybe even tamed a little for their small statures (and nobody seems to be giving away those Burris scopes, or good hunting slings lately). But I guess it's a decision I need to make soon.
    Grits

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    Should clarify; been seeing the A-bolts at a little over $600 NIB now that the X-bolts are flooding the market.

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    In highschool I had a Rem 788 in 7-08. Steel butt pad and 18" barrel if I remember correctly. That thing kicked WAY worse than my 30-06...but man was it accurate.
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