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Thread: And so it continues...

  1. #1
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    Default And so it continues...

    No local Jury, just the Judge.
    Kind torques me he's getting limited in the ammount of punishment he could dish out........


    http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/rural/story/1100921.html


    Let the laminations begin
    Last edited by Daveinthebush; 01-20-2010 at 23:01.
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    Member broncoformudv's Avatar
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    Well Stranger I don't have anything good to say so I will keep my big mouth and keyboard quiet for now.

    I have not seen the evidence but am guessing the state could not prove the meat did not pose a health threat to humans and or that the defendants actually killed the caribou.

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    Broncoformudv, your most likely right about the state not proving that they shot any animal.

    Where I disagree is that the meat was unsafe.

    The biologists I talk with say the WACH herd is one of the healthiest on the planet.
    I know for a personal fast that a Caribou' skin in July aint worth its weight in used diapers. Full of the holes the blow flys leave, all pussed up and scabby. Looks nasty, and the meat is just fine......though probly skinny at that time, but great for drying and smoking.
    They are the holes from the larve that grew under them since the summer before.
    Caribou hides arent worth all the holes and shedding hair in July, when these guyd shot it up. August is when you hunt a Caribou and get a velvet like fur, and no holes in the hide.

    AND THIS!!!:

    If that ****ed North Slope Borough was so concerned about the health of its people, why arent they blowing 58,000$ on researching and correcting such terrible contamination in the meat of the Caribou herd that feeds so many???!!
    If they gave half a ****, and there was any truth to it, they would be warning us not to eat it, put up posters and radio broadcasts about disease in the herds, like they have in the past, with descriptions and asking the publik to drop off or send in samples of what we consitter diseased or contaminated, like here in the North West Arctic Bourogh......and they would have been choking Obama himself to get it cleaned up and NOW.
    The "Subsistance" connection as well as claiming the meat was contaminated from Red Dog Mine or Cape Thompson Radiation(and they could tell by looking at a dead carcass) is BS......and the only thing thats could be worse......... is if it were TRUE , and the boroughs did NOTHING.....like so far.........'cause the herd is healthy.......
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  4. #4
    Member skybust's Avatar
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    Default shame

    All I can say is what a bunch of bull---

  5. #5

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    "Prosecutors late last week filed amended charges against the remaining defendants reducing the severity of accusations that they failed to salvage edible meat from Class-A misdemeanors to noncriminal violations."

    How many of us repeatedly said it was going to go down like this. And...how many continued to beat the drum and talk foolishly about how Bad the Judge was, how upset the elders were, how the true subistence hunters wouldn't stand for justice to not be served, how the locals in Point Hope were just being mis-characterized???
    Perhaps now the naive among us will listen? Doubt it though. They will continue on with the make believe, just like the folks in Point Hope will continue on with what it is they do, with regularity.

    To me, what is even more maddening than this case, is the larger scope of priority allotment being played out on Alaskan's and yet they allow it to continue as well. JUST A BUNCH OF SHEEPLE LIVING UP HERE NOW!!!!
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    Member .338-06's Avatar
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    So, can anyone remind me how much money the state spent on proscruting Jeff King for shooting a moose 600 feet inside an unmarked park boundry?

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    Akres says;
    "how the true subistence hunters wouldn't stand for justice to not be served"

    Like how? ~~LOL!!~~Is there something we can do?.........'cept watch it happen......
    Ive been promoting a truck tire and 5 gallons of gas....got a lite?

    The prediction, as I remember, was that the Feds were gonna frame the judge or something threatening.....?? That it was all gonna be dismissed and covered up........

    It looks like its gonna be just like when the Point Hope white guy that shot down 12 Muskox there, and was busted on wasting 5....5 days in jail, a fine, and no loss of guns or wheeler....or the Point Hope white guy who took the photgrapher Polar Bear hunting....


    What I have never agreed with, and never will, is the generalized statements against the whole village and race of people, for what 7 guys under the guize of "Subsistance Hunters" did in crime. They are criminals, thats all, and they come in all shapes and sizes,ages and colors.... all around the world.

    Well, theres been ALOT said, on this subject, for sure Akres.......and none of it will be a fitting end to it all, Im sure we agree.

    I dont know how much was spent on who.....Jeff King and others.....but there are very few frugal people in the political system...they are much too busy spending other peoples $$$ to give a ****.


    Theres what we wish and what we get, but since 4 of the 7 are GUILTY, and down for the count, I'd venture to say its the only "Justice" well see, no matter how great (or not) the punishment is.

    Well, as I started this thread......... it aint over. Feb 1st is trial day for the hold outs. The judge hasnt passed sentancing yet for the guilty, this is the latest,........ brace yerself fer more...........
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

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    Please forgive me, I have never seen this level of racism in a legal proceeding before and in this case, it starts with the Attorney General. I find it incredible. Sorry for all involved and that includes the defendants. The defendants now believe they are not subject to the state's law and apparently they aren't!!!! John

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    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    So its ok to lock and load the AK and mow down 'bou around Point Hope? Is that only for Natives or white people too? There couldn't possibly be a double standard is there?

    Tim

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    Theres no double standard, at least in Point Hope.
    Theres a history of interracial wildlife violations.
    Native, White, or any race that can pick up a gun can mow down Caribou and Musk Ox, and still be taken before a judge to be held responsible.

    Problem is , guys dont want to take responsibility for what they shoot, and blame everything/everybody they can to cultivate sympathy, dragging everyone down in the mud with 'em.

    Lack of responsibility know no bounds.

    4 Guilty, 3 to go.
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

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    Default No surprise here.

    There should be no surprise here. John Edwards was right, there are two America's. In this case, whites would have a different list of charges and the non-whites get another version. This is indemic across the Country.
    It should come as no surprise, rather is should be expected!

  12. #12

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by knikglacier View Post
    This is indemic across the Country.
    It should come as no surprise, rather is should be expected!
    Yep,
    Yet spoke out against at every opportunity. Make 'em pay. That includes those that protected and defended them.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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  13. #13

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by strangerinastrangeland View Post

    The prediction, as I remember, was that the Feds were gonna frame the judge or something threatening.....?? That it was all gonna be dismissed and covered up........
    A lot has been happening for the past two months in Anchorage mostly. The Feds are using every trick in the book during their Fed Sub Review Process. Surely you have heard bits and pieces of it.

    I can only say this about the Feds. At least they are predictable.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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    I believe it was the Feds who prosecuted King, not the state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strangerinastrangeland View Post
    , but since 4 of the 7 are GUILTY, and down for the count, I'd venture to say its the only "Justice" well see, no matter how great (or not) the punishment is.
    I was gonna say, "Guilty" is not the appropriate word to describe what they get for their actions. Neither is "Punishment". $2,200 fine and 30 days community service, drop in the bucket if you ask me. We paid 2,200 bucks just to fly out and shoot 2 caribou. LEGALLY!
    "Ya can't stop a bad guy with a middle finger and a bag of quarters!!!!"- Ted Nugent.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by pike_palace View Post
    I was gonna say, "Guilty" is not the appropriate word to describe what they get for their actions. Neither is "Punishment". $2,200 fine and 30 days community service, drop in the bucket if you ask me. We paid 2,200 bucks just to fly out and shoot 2 caribou. LEGALLY!
    You're right; sounds like a bargain!

    Tim

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by strangerinastrangeland View Post
    Problem is , guys dont want to take responsibility for what they shoot, and blame everything/everybody they can to cultivate sympathy, dragging everyone down in the mud with 'em.

    Lack of responsibility know no bounds.
    That pretty much hits it on the head for me. It seems like too many people don't want to "man up" and just admit they are guilty of doing something wrong. It's refreshing when someone says, "Hey, I am guilty." Then when they own up to being destructive, wasteful, thieving, etc. it almost like a breath of fresh air!

    Too often what really grabs public attention is when an accused appeals to their demographic of choice for help.

    "Help everyone, I'm being picked on because I live in the bush/city/hood/hills/...!" or

    "Help everyone, they are out to get me because I am a woman/man/dog lover/teacher/ tourette's sufferer/...!" or

    "Help everyone, I'm just a white/native/asian/black /..., working man/woman and we never get a break!" or

    "Help me!! Even though I'm guilty, and my parents would be ashamed of my behavior if they saw it, and I would never act like I did if my kids were around, I need your help! Help me because I'm from your demographic, Help me because even though what I did was wrong, and I know that in my heart, if I admit it they are gonna be after you next. "Why??" "Because you are just like me!!"

    Actually in the previous statement they'd just say, "Help me because I'm just like you."

    The added problem is that enough of of the public defend them even when they couldn't possibly know all the facts.

    Some even go so far as to think or say, "Let's stick up for our side no matter what. I don't care if our guy is guilty. Let's give him public support and a wad of cash because WE are being attacked."

    I guess this type of behavior is basically human nature. That is, there will always be people that attempt to rally "their" masses around themselves to avoid taking personal responsibility. Probably has been going on since the dawn of human history and will continue until the end.

    I'll finish with this little tidbit.

    I work with kids. After an assignment the other day it was clean up time. Kids zipped here and there, put things away, and chatted with their friends as they did so. In the end ALMOST everything was put away. I say "almost" because someone had just tossed their books on top of the bookshelf instead of putting them away. Not really a big deal, but annoying.

    I had a suspect in my mind. I've seen this particular kid throw trash behind him during cleanup, knock over papers and keep going, etc. Even when I've seen him do something wrong he often denies it. He also regularly whines about being treated unfairly.

    About this time I start to address the whole group by saying, "Alright everybody someone has left these books for the rest of us to pick up. I guess one of us will have to take the time and effort to ..."

    At this moment a girl, a "good girl" in my mind, stands up and walks over to the books and put them away. I start to thank her for picking up after others and she interrupts me with, "Excuse me. It was me. I tossed the books on top of the shelf. I was in a hurry. I shouldn't have done it. I'm sorry."

    My response, "Thanks. Thanks for taking personal responsibility." She smiled and sat down. Done. Ahhhh! Refreshing honesty

    Later the "suspect boy" kicked trash under my desk because he didn't want to bend down to pick it up. He denied it. Fortunately, his mother takes personal responsibility for dealing with her son. He had some logical consequences from me and some at home as well.

    In the above by myself there's a white guy, native kid, white kid, married parent and a single parent. I guess that part doesn't really matter though. One of the parents has two asian kids. One of those kids honestly thinks she' has never lied in her short life thus far. She might even be right about that! The other child tells a couple of half truths before getting out of bed just to get ready for the fibbing, truth stretching and lies she'll tell later in the day.

    My point? Hmmm. Do I even have a point??... Well If I, a white guy, do something stupid, illegal, or morally wrong, hopefully I'll "man-up" and admit it.

    And if I plea for help when accused of wrong doing, it's probably best to stay out of it unless you have a good reason to believe I'm innocent. Don't do it because I'm bald, or white, or over 40,... just like you. The only people that better have my back no matter what are my wife and two girls. I'm thinking that little fibber of mine could make a fine defense lawyer if she wants to do so. She says she'll take care of me when I am an old "wrinklier man".

    Have a good weekend. Sleep, must sleep.

  18. #18
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    Default Injecting Racism into this...

    doesn't help your arguments...period...nor does it foment good relations between rural & urban hunters, who, in time if need, will, when under attack from folks like PETA, HSUS, & others, want to band together to prevent any type of recessive loss of hunting privileges...As a half Native from Wisconsin, born in Germany, I can tell you that I can straddle the line between subsistence & recreational hunting & fishing.

    I love the fact that SIS can maintain objectivity in this, & yet others, in the face of that objectivity, throw common sense out the window & blame a race of people rather than focus on the individuals themselves.

    It's awesome that we live in a world where the BURDEN OF PROOF lies with prosecution & that they NEED to have their "ducks in a row" so to speak, in order to have justice prevail. Without that, a majority of you who post such racist comments would have hung them where they stand, no if's ands or buts about it...

    Thank you SIS & I guess I can't thank you enough...you truly are to be emulated in your thought processes & analysis...

  19. #19
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Our legislature has seen fit to build two different distinct classes of hunter in AK. They did it arbitrarily but drawing circles around population centers. They built the animosity one law at a time. They made political rather than biological decisions and continue to do so. The native claims act cuts the throat of many urban hunters by limiting access to state land, land that rightfully belongs to all of us who choose to harvest game animals to help support our families. The us vs them is not a fabrication in people's minds it is a real and present danger to a way of life for many of us. I wish it weren't so but it is what has taken place and continues to this day. Even now the K-pen caribou are being claimed by a particular user group. The Ahtna land conveyance (and others) has blocked road system access to tens of thousands of acres of state land. Soon enough without a fight all of the best places to hunt in the state will belong to large guide operations, the wealthy, native corps, or others who qualify for a rural preference. I certainly don't see AHTNA or others opening corridors through their land for free and unemcumbered passage to the state land beyond. Heck we have to fight for historical use on 50+ year old trails and that is routinely denied. There are lots of disgruntled people out there in all user groups and sadly most of them IMHO, have a right to be!
    Goalie, if I was extremely wealthy (big if there) and I convinced the state to sell me 100 miles of river front where you have been hunting your whole life would that p!$$ you off? Well it happened to me, and I am not that happy with it...

  20. #20

    Angry

    Well....let's just take a look at whom might have "Injected Racism" into this case.
    Was it the North Slope Borough? Yep
    Was it the Point Hope Elders? Yep
    Was it the State Judicial Branch? Yep
    Was it the Federal Subsistence Board? Yep
    Was it some of the media reporters? Yep

    Why? IMO, it is because they want to further refine and deliniate the Social Classes of Alaskans that were established years ago. Make no mistake, Race plays a monumental role in every social element within our society. But sometimes each social class gets played like pawns in a chess match. To say it isn't so or to ignore the facts only helps to further the division.

    Gi Gi, I am glad you can straddle both ways, puts you in the minority for sure. Most of us are on the Have or Have Not side of the fence. So....that could be why we don't see eye to eye.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

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