Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 37

Thread: Whats the law?

  1. #1
    New member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4

    Default Whats the law?

    Whats the deal about silencers or suppreors in Ak law?

  2. #2

    Default This is not conclusive, but...

    A Google search listed a number of answers.. none of which I would totally trust. For example,

    The website http://www.silencertalk.com states Alaska is one of the many states that allow hunting with a legally owned silencer.

    A second search found the website http://www.impactguns.com/store/silencers.html where it states Sound Suppressors are legal to own in Alaska but the website fails to make any comment on hunting regulations.

    My suggestion would be to check directly with Fish and Game and/or the State Troopers - NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE POSTS HERE or what we may find on the internet.

    It's always better to be safe than sorry. I couldn't find anything on Fish and Games website and/or booklet but that doesn't mean anything. The website and book have proven to be incomplete and has been known to contain a number of errors for as long as I can remember.
    "He should have been packing a more powerful gun...you have to be a very good shot or very lucky to stop a brown bear with a .357 Magnum." - Rick Sinnott, Alaska Department of Fish and Game biologist after a double attack by a grizzly.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Fairbanks
    Posts
    301

    Default

    As far as I know there is nothing in state statute about ownership. To buy a suppressor you will need to work through a class 3 dealer and they will know what is or is not needed under state law.

    As for hunting I have not been able to find anything in the Game regulations in resent years. However, I seem to remember something in the regs about 10 or 15 years ago. It is important to note that the game regulations booklet is just a summary of state statute and not their entirety. Before hunting I would check the LIO (Legislative Information Office) website or go to one of the offices in person. They used to be very helpful in helping you find what you want.

  4. #4
    Member JOAT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Soldotna, ALASKA since '78
    Posts
    3,720

    Default

    They are called "suppressors" and Alaska has no laws against ownership or use of them. They are Federally controlled via a tax stamp. So in addition to buying your suppressor through a licensed dealer, you'll have to pay the Federal tax for it.

    I don't see where the OP asked about hunting with a suppressor, but I've never seen a regulation that prohibits suppressor use during hunting. I don't know why there would be any rule against suppressor use. For one thing, most suppressors degrade the accuracy and terminal ballistics of the gun they are on. There is zero advantage to having a suppressor installed while hunting as far as fair chase is concerned.
    Winter is Coming...

    Go GeocacheAlaska!

  5. #5
    Member AKsoldier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    1,555

    Default

    I had looked into this myself. I thought having a suppressed .22 pistol might be ideal for taking small game while hunting larger animals, to reduce the noise and keep from spooking any larger game in the area. I figured it would be good for upland birds or bunnies for the camp stewpot.

    The federal tax is something like $200.00 and you have to fill out a couple of forms - I think they can be found on the ATF website. I also read something about requiring an approval signature from local law enforcement.

    It sounded like too much trouble to me. I'd rather just carry my crosman pump pellet pistol.

    The other 299,300,000 people can have it.

    Noone has a more intimate understanding of, or deeper appreciation for freedom, than a soldier who has fought for it in a country where it does not exist.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Between mentally adjudicated and cybersapce
    Posts
    555

    Default

    AKSoldier if not scaring game is a concern you can carry 22 subsonic's or short ammo.

  7. #7
    Member AKsoldier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    1,555

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph View Post
    AKSoldier if not scaring game is a concern you can carry 22 subsonic's or short ammo.
    I thought about that, but I've tried both, and neither seems to be much quieter than standard 22 LR. Maybe that was because I was using a rifle and they were still supersonic. Maybe they would be quieter out of a shorter barrel? I guess I'd have to get a 22 pistol to find out. See - every time I talk to you I wind up having to buy another gun.

    The other 299,300,000 people can have it.

    Noone has a more intimate understanding of, or deeper appreciation for freedom, than a soldier who has fought for it in a country where it does not exist.

  8. #8
    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    5,594

    Default

    I think you'll find that subsonics out of a pistol are louder than out of a rifle. The gases are at a higher pressure when they leave the shorter barrel, hence louder muzzle blast.

    I've also considered getting a few supressors, but haven't come up with the cash nor wanted to deal with the paperwork. A buddy did just order a 22 rf supressor, so I'll have to see the details of the process.

  9. #9
    Member JOAT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Soldotna, ALASKA since '78
    Posts
    3,720

    Default

    I'd love to have a suppressor for my little Walther P-22. There is a stray cat that comes around every once in awhile and "marks" our back door, thereby ticking off all our animals. It would be great to silently take care of that problem at 2am without notifying the neighbors.
    Winter is Coming...

    Go GeocacheAlaska!

  10. #10
    Member gunbugs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Fairbanks
    Posts
    1,382

    Default

    The procedure is basically as follows: Find your favorite supressor at brand X manufacturer and pay them for it. Next arrange to have it transferred to your local class 3 dealer. Next get passport photos, fill out your ATF form 4 transfer paperwork and get fingerprinted. Submit this to your local chief of police who has jurisdiction at your residence address listed on the Form 4 and have him sign the back of the form. Take the signed Form 4 back to your local dealer with the photos and fingerprint cards and he mails it to ATF with 200$ attached. Nowdays, 6 to 9 months later it comes back approved and now you can take posession of your "can". Of course, anywhere along this trail, there can be glitches, like unacceptable fingerprints, typographical errors, etc. that can slow or hinder the process.
    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind."

  11. #11
    Member Chisana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Juneau, Alaska
    Posts
    1,439

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gunbugs View Post
    The procedure is basically as follows: Find your favorite supressor at brand X manufacturer and pay them for it. Next arrange to have it transferred to your local class 3 dealer. Next get passport photos, fill out your ATF form 4 transfer paperwork and get fingerprinted. Submit this to your local chief of police who has jurisdiction at your residence address listed on the Form 4 and have him sign the back of the form. Take the signed Form 4 back to your local dealer with the photos and fingerprint cards and he mails it to ATF with 200$ attached. Nowdays, 6 to 9 months later it comes back approved and now you can take posession of your "can". Of course, anywhere along this trail, there can be glitches, like unacceptable fingerprints, typographical errors, etc. that can slow or hinder the process.
    That's generally correct, but in having half a dozen or so Form 4s approved over the years I have never had to wait longer than three months, including two that were submitted in October 2009, a very busy period for the NFA staff in WV. Still three months is an unacceptable amount of time to wait for what is basically the same process as a NICS instant check. I have never had fingerprints kicked back or any of the other myriad of problems you hear about.

  12. #12
    Member Chisana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Juneau, Alaska
    Posts
    1,439

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dindvik View Post
    Whats the deal about silencers or suppreors in Ak law?
    Suppressors are entirely legal in Alaska, but you may run into difficulties getting your chief law enforcement officer to sign your Form 4. For example in Homer the police chief is okay with SBRs and SBSs, but not suppressors. In Anchorage APD makes you submit to a very lengthy written interview/questionnaire. Where I live the last three police chiefs have all been good to go with NFA weapons. In rural AK where AST is the CLEO they will sign your Form 4s.

    Suppressors are also legal for hunting Alaska and I do a fair bit of ptarmigan hunting with suppressed .22LRs.

  13. #13
    Member Chisana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Juneau, Alaska
    Posts
    1,439

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul H View Post
    I think you'll find that subsonics out of a pistol are louder than out of a rifle. The gases are at a higher pressure when they leave the shorter barrel, hence louder muzzle blast.
    I don't by your theory. How are the gasses at a higher pressure in a shorter barrel? Sure there is less volume in the shorter barrel, but less powder will have burned in the shorter barrel. In the rifle barrel there is more time for the powder to burn, thus greater pressure and the higher velocity you get from a rifle. Just chrono the same ammo from a rifle and a pistol and you will see that your theory does not hold water.

    The reason the pistol seems louder is because the muzzle is closer to you than it is with a rifle and a semi auto pistol will always be louder than a bolt action rifle and many semi auto rifles. There is noise that comes out of the ejection port on a semi auto and the action noise itself can be quite loud.

    I have several VERY efficient .22LR suppressors and with subsonic ammo the action noise is the most apparent noise to the shooter.

    The shooter's perception of the noise will be different than that of a bystander. As the shooter you have all of the noise right in your face. With a good suppressor the loudest noise for a bystander will usually be the bullet impact.

  14. #14
    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Missing Palmer AK in Phonix AZ.
    Posts
    6,416

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chisana View Post
    I don't by your theory. How are the gasses at a higher pressure in a shorter barrel? Sure there is less volume in the shorter barrel, but less powder will have burned in the shorter barrel. In the rifle barrel there is more time for the powder to burn, thus greater pressure and the higher velocity you get from a rifle. Just chrono the same ammo from a rifle and a pistol and you will see that your theory does not hold water.
    Not higher pressures just that they are still high at the point when they are vented since the bullet exit happens sooner in a handgun. Shoot the same 22 in a rifle and handgun after dark and you can tell from the flash as well as sound that the gases vent at a higher pressure in the handgun.
    Andy
    On the web= C-lazy-F.co
    Email= Andy@C-lazy-F.co
    Call/Text 602-315-2406
    Phoenix Arizona

  15. #15
    Member 1Cor15:19's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Dillingham, AK
    Posts
    2,482

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul H View Post
    I think you'll find that subsonics out of a pistol are louder than out of a rifle. The gases are at a higher pressure when they leave the shorter barrel, hence louder muzzle blast.
    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    Not higher pressures just that they are still high at the point when they are vented since the bullet exit happens sooner in a handgun. Shoot the same 22 in a rifle and handgun after dark and you can tell from the flash as well as sound that the gases vent at a higher pressure in the handgun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chisana View Post
    I don't by your theory. How are the gasses at a higher pressure in a shorter barrel? Sure there is less volume in the shorter barrel, but less powder will have burned in the shorter barrel. In the rifle barrel there is more time for the powder to burn, thus greater pressure and the higher velocity you get from a rifle. Just chrono the same ammo from a rifle and a pistol and you will see that your theory does not hold water.

    The reason the pistol seems louder is because the muzzle is closer to you than it is with a rifle and a semi auto pistol will always be louder than a bolt action rifle and many semi auto rifles. There is noise that comes out of the ejection port on a semi auto and the action noise itself can be quite loud.
    I see what Chisana is saying, and certainly some of the increased perceived noise is due to the proximity of the barrel to the shooter, but I vote with Paul & AD on this one. The barrel length effects the exiting pressure of the gases. Cartridge pressure is not a flat line, but rather a curve that normally reaches maximum pressure just beyond the chamber and begins decreasing as the bullet continues through the barrel. I would expect some difference in perceived noise from this difference in exit pressure, but I've no idea how much.

  16. #16
    Member Chisana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Juneau, Alaska
    Posts
    1,439

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    Not higher pressures just that they are still high at the point when they are vented since the bullet exit happens sooner in a handgun. Shoot the same 22 in a rifle and handgun after dark and you can tell from the flash as well as sound that the gases vent at a higher pressure in the handgun.
    At night you are seeing the powder escaping and still burning.

  17. #17
    Member Chisana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Juneau, Alaska
    Posts
    1,439

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Cor15:19 View Post
    I see what Chisana is saying, and certainly some of the increased perceived noise is due to the proximity of the barrel to the shooter, but I vote with Paul & AD on this one. The barrel length effects the exiting pressure of the gases. Cartridge pressure is not a flat line, but rather a curve that normally reaches maximum pressure just beyond the chamber and begins decreasing as the bullet continues through the barrel. I would expect some difference in perceived noise from this difference in exit pressure, but I've no idea how much.
    The location of the pressure curve makes sense because when you use a strain gauge it is usually at or near the chamber.

    I don't buy that pressure is higher in a pistol with the same ammo. If it was you would get a higher velocity than the rifle.

    I've probably shot more suppressed .22LR than everyone else on this forum put together and the noise difference between a rifle and pistol (assuming bullets are subsonic) is due to where the shooter's head is at in relation to the muzzle and the action noise.

    One way I've verified this is to shoot the same ammo through the same suppressor on both a semi auto pistol and a rifle. As an observer 10 yards away there is little to no difference in the sound that I can hear with the naked ear. As the shooter the pistol is louder because of the action noise and where your face is in relation to the muzzle. A suppressor increases back pressure and forces more gas and fouling back into the action. The design of most 22 pistols is such that the ejection port is quite large and some of that stuff will come back your way.

  18. #18
    Member 1Cor15:19's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Dillingham, AK
    Posts
    2,482

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chisana View Post
    The location of the pressure curve makes sense because when you use a strain gauge it is usually at or near the chamber.

    I don't buy that pressure is higher in a pistol with the same ammo. If it was you would get a higher velocity than the rifle.

    I've probably shot more suppressed .22LR than everyone else on this forum put together and the noise difference between a rifle and pistol (assuming bullets are subsonic) is due to where the shooter's head is at in relation to the muzzle and the action noise.

    One way I've verified this is to shoot the same ammo through the same suppressor on both a semi auto pistol and a rifle. As an observer 10 yards away there is little to no difference in the sound that I can hear with the naked ear. As the shooter the pistol is louder because of the action noise and where your face is in relation to the muzzle. A suppressor increases back pressure and forces more gas and fouling back into the action. The design of most 22 pistols is such that the ejection port is quite large and some of that stuff will come back your way.
    I am certainly not claiming expertise in suppressors. I may have misread the question or some post, though I am careful to attempt to take everyone at face value. Here's my take on this:

    I understood AKsoldier to have used subsonic RF ammo in a non-suppressed rifle and could not detect a difference in the noise level over standard velocity ammo, but he thought more difference may be detected in using sub-sonic ammo in a non-suppressed pistol. Paul was commenting that substituting a non-suppressed pistol in place of a non-suppressed rifle would not likely decrease noise due to exiting pressure.

    I am not suggesting handguns have increased pressure, chamber or otherwise, but that exit pressure is higher the closer from the chamber the bullet exits the barrel. Therefor, a bullet exits from shorter barrels under a higher point on the pressure curve than a similar load from a longer barrel. It is reasonable to me, though I've no scientific study to report, that in a non-suppressed barrel a shorter barrel is not merely perceived to be louder by the shooter, but is measurably louder due to the increased exit pressure. How much and to what extent I've no idea and I may very well be wrong about this altogether.

    As for suppressors, IME there is more difference in the design/quality of the individual suppressor than the type of ammo that is used in rimfire and pistol cartridges. However let me reiterate I have limited experience with suppressors and yield to Chisana's experience.

  19. #19
    Member byrd_hntr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Squarebanks
    Posts
    661

    Default A little to the side...

    Has anyone ever tried the plastic water bottle on the end of the barrel trick you see in movies? Ive always wondered if that is BS or if it actually reduces noise. I have no real uses for a suppressor but that stinking squirrel that keep chewing on my roof eves and dodging my wrist rocket has got me thinking.
    I'm going to ctrl-alt-delete you so hard your mama's computer is going to reboot.

  20. #20
    Member Vince's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Fairbanks most the time, Ancorage some of the time,& on the road Kicking Anti's all the time
    Posts
    8,989

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AKsoldier View Post
    I had looked into this myself. I thought having a suppressed .22 pistol might be ideal for taking small game while hunting larger animals, to reduce the noise and keep from spooking any larger game in the area. I figured it would be good for upland birds or bunnies for the camp stewpot.

    The federal tax is something like $200.00 and you have to fill out a couple of forms - I think they can be found on the ATF website. I also read something about requiring an approval signature from local law enforcement.

    It sounded like too much trouble to me. I'd rather just carry my crosman pump pellet pistol.

    How about if you make your own? i have all the book to just do that ... you know the one... the us army put it out.. SILENCERS and how to make them..
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

    meet on face book here

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •