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Thread: 25-06 vs 25-06AI

  1. #1

    Default 25-06 vs 25-06AI

    After reading through another thread on the .06 vs the .06AI, I thought I would post this one and get some internet opinions

    I currently have a Sendero 25-06 (26" barrel) and a smith who borescoped it for me told me it was severly firecracked. It still shoots very well but I'm expecting it to go south anythime which brings me to the subject at hand.

    I will be getting it rebarreled and have been considering consider the standard 25-06 and the AI version - haven't made my mind up yet. I'm getting very good velocities now. 3500 fps with RL17 and 110 ABs and 3400 fps with RL17 and 115 Ballisitc Silvertips. Being the speed freak I am, I wouldn't mind some more velocity. If I can only expect another 100 fps out of it, I'll probably stick with the standard chamber. But if I can get 150 fps or more, I may go with the AI. And yes I know, it will lead to faster throat errosion. I'll be going with a Lilja 3 groove barrel that have a good rep for better barrel life.

    Any experience and opions are much appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Mark

  2. #2
    Member 1Cor15:19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
    After reading through another thread on the .06 vs the .06AI, I thought I would post this one and get some internet opinions

    I currently have a Sendero 25-06 (26" barrel) and a smith who borescoped it for me told me it was severly firecracked. It still shoots very well but I'm expecting it to go south anythime which brings me to the subject at hand.

    I will be getting it rebarreled and have been considering consider the standard 25-06 and the AI version - haven't made my mind up yet. I'm getting very good velocities now. 3500 fps with RL17 and 110 ABs and 3400 fps with RL17 and 115 Ballisitc Silvertips. Being the speed freak I am, I wouldn't mind some more velocity. If I can only expect another 100 fps out of it, I'll probably stick with the standard chamber. But if I can get 150 fps or more, I may go with the AI. And yes I know, it will lead to faster throat errosion. I'll be going with a Lilja 3 groove barrel that have a good rep for better barrel life.

    Any experience and opions are much appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Mark
    AI or not to AI, that's the question. I wouldn't, but there is a bit more velocity than the factory chambering, how much depends on the pressures you are willing to call acceptable. I've no pressure data but I would not expect 150 fps with sane pressures. Have you considered a 257 Weatherby? You are getting better velocity than I have ever gotten from a Weatherby with your Sendero (I've not used RL17 in the 25/06), but the capacity is there and there is no way the '06 can compete with the Weatherby, AI or not. Another consideration is a 6.5x284 or 6.5/06--similar load costs, similar recoil levels, but improved external ballistics. Either one are better LR cartridges IME.

    What I would most certainly do in your case is to insure the barrel is at least 28" long and I would go with a 30 incher. There's an extra 75+ fps with no extra erosion, just makes sense for your application IMO. Let us know what you do MR.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Cor15:19 View Post
    AI or not to AI, that's the question. I wouldn't, but there is a bit more velocity than the factory chambering, how much depends on the pressures you are willing to call acceptable. I've no pressure data but I would not expect 150 fps with sane pressures. Have you considered a 257 Weatherby? You are getting better velocity than I have ever gotten from a Weatherby with your Sendero (I've not used RL17 in the 25/06), but the capacity is there and there is no way the '06 can compete with the Weatherby, AI or not. Another consideration is a 6.5x284 or 6.5/06--similar load costs, similar recoil levels, but improved external ballistics. Either one are better LR cartridges IME.

    What I would most certainly do in your case is to insure the barrel is at least 28" long and I would go with a 30 incher. There's an extra 75+ fps with no extra erosion, just makes sense for your application IMO. Let us know what you do MR.
    The 257 Wby is no doubt a great cartridge, but I simply do not like belted cases. Maybe that's unreasonable but it is what it is and thanks for the suggestion anyway. I would go with a 25 WSM before going with the Wby. And i just like the 25-06 just like some folks like the .06 or whatever. Just one of those subjective personal things.

    Interesting that you should mention the 6.5-06 because I am considering that as well in a switch barrel option on my Sendero RUM platform. I'm considering that in the AI version as well. This way I could have 2 smaller cal prairie dog regulators to shoot side by side giving some more trigger time without heating up the barrels too quick. I could also use the same bushing dies for both the 25 and 6.5 in the same version.

    You're right on the barrel length, but I'll be going with a 27" because that is about as long as I want a carry rifle barrel to be and I want these to be carry rifles for deer and antelope. Good point though and thanks.

    PS... I dont plan on any higher pressures than what I have with the present load.

  4. #4

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    Idle question out of ignorance and NOT a criticism of your impulse. In fact, I like your question and the thinking behind it.

    Is there a powder that's a little slower than your current RL17, but which is just a bit too bulky to achieve max performance in the existing case? Letting you utilize a slower powder better is where an AI would shine and potentially return the most velocity to your experiment. I'm guessing RL21 might be there, but that's purely a SWAG based on more unfamiliarity.

    Food for thought, and encouragement, if that powder is lurking out there just beyond reach in the current case configuration.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    Idle question out of ignorance and NOT a criticism of your impulse. In fact, I like your question and the thinking behind it.

    Is there a powder that's a little slower than your current RL17, but which is just a bit too bulky to achieve max performance in the existing case? Letting you utilize a slower powder better is where an AI would shine and potentially return the most velocity to your experiment. I'm guessing RL21 might be there, but that's purely a SWAG based on more unfamiliarity.

    Food for thought, and encouragement, if that powder is lurking out there just beyond reach in the current case configuration.
    BrownBear, good thought and when I did load development for the current 25-06 I tried H1000 and Retumbo which will often give similar results to RL22 and 25 but more temp stable. I got 3300 fps with the 110 ABs and Retumbo and close to that with H1000 and I was very happy to see those velocities. You can imagine my surprise and delight when I saw 3500 fps with RL17. The slower powders would typically be a good way to go, but RL17 is different. It works very well in a wide range of cartridges including my 300 RUM where it will match (but not exceed) H1000 and Retumbo with 180 gr bullets.

    A slower powder is something to think about but I doubt Retumbo in the AI will match RL17 in the standard chamber and I believe RL17 will do very well in the AI.

    Thanks for the thoughts.

    Mark

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Cor15:19 View Post
    Another consideration is a 6.5x284 or 6.5/06--similar load costs, similar recoil levels, but improved external ballistics. Either one are better LR cartridges IME.
    I've been thinking about this a little... and think I may just go with the 6.5-06(AI) rebarrel and do the 26-06 (AI) switch barrel on the 300 RUM platform.

    The 6.5 would be a slightly better LR platform and overall more useful in hunting. and when the 300 RUM wasn't needed for big game I could swap out to the 25-06.

    However ya slice it, no loosing combos

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    Why not just get a .257 Weatherby?

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by kgpcr View Post
    Why not just get a .257 Weatherby?
    This is why not...

    from post #3

    The 257 Wby is no doubt a great cartridge, but I simply do not like belted cases.
    And, Weatherby brass is on the spendy side.

  9. #9

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    After some thinking on this, I dont think the fireformig, cost of dies, etc is worth it. I'm leaning to the standard 25-06 and 6.5-06. I'll replace the present 25-06 with the 6.5-06 and add a switch barrel 25-06 to the 300 RUM rifle. The present 25-06 may also get a 338 EDGE barrel (338-300 RUM) The big boy barrels would come on for elk season and the other barrels for the rest of the year, especially for prairie dog plinking.

    To get a good speed fix, I want to do the 25 and 6.5 cals on a short action WSM platform. Plan would be to do up to 5 barrels in 25 WSM, 6.5 WSM, 270 WSM, 7mm WSM and 300 WSM.

    Not something that will happen overnight, but it's good to have a goal to shoot for

    First need to get the 25-06 and 6.5-06 barrels, then with a 25 WSM, I'll have three prairie dog shooters lined up to keep things interesitng and barrel heat down.

  10. #10
    Member gunbugs's Avatar
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    Default 25-06 in a RUM action

    The extractor in your RUM probably won't engage the rim of a std. cartridge based on the '06. Just a heads up on a possible glitch. You will probably have failure to extract or failures to eject from the extractor dropping the cartridge.
    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind."

  11. #11
    Member Dan in Alaska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
    I've been thinking about this a little... and think I may just go with the 6.5-06(AI) rebarrel and do the 26-06 (AI) switch barrel on the 300 RUM platform.
    I wouldn't put a .25-06 barrel on a RUM action. The boltfaces are different, and I doubt the RUM action's feed rails would be compatible either. Keep the .300 RUM and the prospective .338 Edge you're planning on the same action.

    Looks like gunbugs has the same reservations.




    You mention prairie dogs, but I don't see mention of a .22 cal varmint rifle. Ever thought about a fast-twist .223 or .22-250 (or their AI versions) with the 75gr A-Max? That particular bullet is a GREAT long range varmint bullet, and they are cheaper to shoot than the .25's.

  12. #12

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    Thanks for the headsup guys but I've taken a close look at all that. The two rifles/actions are identical except the bore, chamber and boltface. There is a very slight diff in the feed rails of the magbox but both mag boxes are interchangable in either action, so it were an issue I could get a couple more mag boxes which would be easy to find as takeoffs. I would get two more bolts also and have them trued and lapped.

    I know it would seem to make sense to do the EDGE and the 300 on the same action, but I want to have both heavy cal rifles available at the same time and same with the light cal rilfes. Reason being... in case one becomes inoperable or is at the smith for some reason and/or as a loaner to freind relative etc.

    A 22-250 and/or 223 would be great but they're not on the short list ATM. The 25 and 6.5 cals will also be used for deer and antelope.

    Thanks,

    Mark

  13. #13
    Member Dan in Alaska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
    Thanks for the headsup guys but I've taken a close look at all that. The two rifles/actions are identical except the bore, chamber and boltface. There is a very slight diff in the feed rails of the magbox but both mag boxes are interchangable in either action, so it were an issue I could get a couple more mag boxes which would be easy to find as takeoffs. I would get two more bolts also and have them trued and lapped.
    Do what you like, Mark, but I gave my stuff a good look-see last night. There's enough difference in the feed rails of my RUM and all my other long action 700's that the RUM cartridges will ONLY fit in a RUM action. The feed rails are tight enough on my other long actions that a RUM cartridge simply won't go into the magazine. For what it's worth, I tried it with four other long actions. YMMV.

  14. #14

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    Dan,

    My bad on the feedrails. I also tried pushing a RUM case into the 25-06 mag and it would not fit. Looks to me like it's about .010" or so too tight. Then I tried putting the .06 case into the RUM mag and it seemed to work fine. It held down fine and fed fine. So i'm thinking that lapping the .06 feedrails back a little should do the trick. I'll be checking with a smith for his opinion and I'll post the results.

    If the RUM cartridge doesn't work, I could always go with a .338-375 Ruger. Not quite as much power as the RUM, but a descent round.

    Thanks for the help.

    Mark

  15. #15

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    The local smith is away at the Shot Show, but the word I got from another smith is that I can use a center feed mag box and open up the rails. After putting the 25-06 cases into the RUM mag with no apparant problems, I think I can just have the rails opened up to the RUM dimensions which is plan A. If that doesn't work, plan B will be to install centerfeed mag boxes.

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