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Thread: Big Ocean, Short Motor

  1. #1
    Member ksbha4's Avatar
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    Default Big Ocean, Short Motor

    Do any of you guys have short shaft outboards that you take out in the salt? My 14' glass lake boat has a short shaft outboard and the transom has been cut down to accommodate (I didn't do that, I aquired it that way!). I wouldn't take it out very far and only on nice days but I wanted to see what you all thought. I am currently ripping the bottom out to lay some new decking down as a learning project and I am thinking that I could glass in a splash well to help keep water out. But it might not make a difference if it swamps the outboard. What do you think?
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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Default You are a brave, brave man!

    I've taken on some real project boats, but that one looks like more than I would bite off!

    If you end up doing this, maybe you could put in a skookum self-bailing compartment to compensate for the low transom. If I was you, however, I'd stick to lakes. Resurrection and Katchemak bays get pretty squirrely at times.

  3. #3
    Member ksbha4's Avatar
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    Yeah, it's a weird setup. I figure that if I treat it like a lund, other than beaching I'll be allright. We had a 15' fiberglass skiff back when I was a kid growing up on the Sound and it seemed to do all right in decent weather. This transom thing is screwing up my plans however. Plus, I can't do any fiberglassing work until summer anyway since doing that in the garage isn't a great idea!
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  4. #4

    Default Well

    Quote Originally Posted by ksbha4 View Post
    Plus, I can't do any fiberglassing work until summer anyway since doing that in the garage isn't a great idea!

    If you bring your garrage temp up to the temperature required by your fiberglass resin you can spread glass anytime. If however the humidity isn't correct you will get a blush. If you use a low blush resin that will help. You can also get low temp fiberglass resins that work in colder climates/shops; just increases cureing times a bit.
    NOT sure if poly-resins are available with these characteristics though.
    Looks like a good boat to practice repairs on. PLUS its already got a piece of required safety equipment attached; the self righting can holder. Wouldn't want to spill a frosty beverage, now would we ?

    PAUL H has done a lot of work on boats maybe he'll chime in.
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  5. #5
    Member anonymous1's Avatar
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    Default stop

    Start looking for a longshaft and build a splash well. I have lived in small skiffs most of my life and I can tell you from experience a short shaft without a splash well can sink out from under you from a stern wave so fast you won`t know what happened.
    Pleas Don`t take any chance with a short shaft and no well. Just cutting the throttle to fast like from running out of gas good be all it takes.

  6. #6
    Member ksbha4's Avatar
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    Anonymous1, thanks for the advise. I sort of thought that would be the problem so I think that I'll scrap the short shaft motor. Anyone what a partial 1962 Merc 500 50HP Short Shaft with broken lower unit?!

    Brav01, with the garage thing, I was worried about fumes and heat source ignition. I'm pretty leery about that since my garage is heated by a gas burner with pilot light, plus power cords and stuff and I don't want to risk fire. Didn't know about the blush problem, thanks for the heads up. Spillage of frosty beverage or coffee...INCONCEIVABLE!!
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  7. #7

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    WEST SYSTEM epoxy resin and hardeners are classified non-flammable, because their flash points are greater than 200F and they evaporate slowly.

    At least that's what their web site says. I've done fiberglass work in the garage, but not on large structures and so not too many vapors. Don't know about health issue as far as inhalation is concerned.

  8. #8
    Member ksbha4's Avatar
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    West system eh? Hmm, I'll look that one up. That would be great if I can do that in the garage. Maybe I could rig up some sort of fan and ventilation system as well.
    Ask not what your government can do for you. Ask how your government can go away and get out of your life

  9. #9

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    x2 the splash well idea and perhaps another beverage holder. Wish i had advice to share on the glass work. The advice "from anonymous1" about building up the transom and going long shaft makes sense, if you plan to do big water with it.

  10. #10
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    Default glass work

    For other than new glass work the epoxy systems are recomended anyway! Check with Plaschem in Anchorage and see if they handle the West System products, if so they are the most user friendly. As to fumes, you could ude this stuff IN YOUR LIVING ROOM. West Marine handles it too.
    On the transom thing, look into a motor bracket. It could cure your transom concerns while giving you greater cockpit room as well. Go on line and google outboard motor bracket, there everywhere and even with minimal skills you can replicate what you see there.
    None of this will make that thing a 30 foot Sea Sport but it would certianly pick it up a notch from it's current state.
    Mike

  11. #11

    Default Been there...

    We had a 16' Almar lite with an open transom like yours; took it once out of Deep Creek and just dumping it in the water at the tractor launch almost swamped it! Next thing we did was have Mike's Welding in Sterling weld in a splash well; main thing is to have it at the same elevation/level as the gunnels, that way the transom cutout is not the weak link anymore in the boat. Also, given the current condition of your transom, I'd re-build the whole transom, really not that difficult just take the time to use good materials (marine grade ply, glues, 'glass).

    In re-building the transom, you can get back to what height you need for a longer shaft motor. You'll want to take a pattern of the existing transom, all kinds of measurements (make sure boat is sitting level side to side, fore and aft, don't ask!) You'll also need to temporarily put a spacer or something to span the beam to keep the sides where they need to be PRIOR to transom removal.

    Don't think I'd go to a transom bracket unless you rebuild what you got, that will put lots of stress on the transom (weight of bracket, motor) Building a full heigh splash well will give you the same advantage of a bracket.

    The guy I fish with on a regular basis has twin T60's and they're short shafts; on the troll and when bottom fishing, they're constantly getting water splashed on and sometimes over the cowling, not too good IMO but it's not my boat and I get to fish whenever I want!
    Jim Sorry if I got too carried away with your project!

  12. #12

    Default Boat

    Since you are doing this yourself ! You could put an extended transom on the boat and incorporate the existing transon into a splash well while raising it at the same time.
    If you use an epoxy fiberglass resin (uses the same amount of resin and hardner) the fumes are nearly non existent and you can get the resin in low blush/non blush and different viscosities for for temperature conditions and work times. Epoxy resins are the most expensive fiberglass resins. They are strong and hard and take a pretty good beating before they break.
    Clean up on epoxy resins (washing hands and tools) is simply white vinegar it smells but isn't flamable, you can but it a Fred Meyers or Safeway.

    Polyester resins liike you purchase at Wally W or Home Depot, where you mix 2-3 drops of hardner per ounce do produce an odor. They also dry tacky so the next layer of resin will stick. When you have the glass as you want it and are ready for the final coat you add a sealing wax to the resin and it will cure hard and smooth and not tacky. They aren't combustable though .
    Polyester resin work times are shorter than epoxy resins work times, it is also the cheapset fiberglass resin. Poly resins are more plyable and flex more than epoxy resins, they aren't as hard and scratch easier too. Poly resins require acetone to clean up; it is highly flammable !

    I've never used polyester resins building boats and don't repair boats. SO my experience is limited; this is just what I've learned playing with water and plastics.
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  13. #13

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    The West System is easy to work with. I used to get the resin and hardener at W. Marine. They have the fiberglass cloth there too, but I buy it at PlasChem since they have a better selection and price. W. Marine has a book on how to use West Systems that's pretty good.
    Using West System, you buy a gallone of resin and I think it's a quart of hardener. Then buy a pump for each. Then it's one pump of hardener for one pump of resin. Not a 1:1 ratio as far as volume goes. The pumps measure it out automatically. You have to match the pumps, resin, and hardener when you buy since there are different kinds of resins and hardeners. I've never been bothered by the vapors. My wife, on the other hand...
    There's probably a MSDS (material safety data sheet) for the stuff that you can get and see if there are any issues with breathing the stuff. Fiberglass work is messy, but I've always enjoyed it.

  14. #14
    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    Default

    I couple comments on glass work. I've done a wee bit, used 27 gallons of epoxy building my Tolman skiff, and used 15 gallons of vinylester with my buddy when we built the body of his race car.



    You can use resins in a garage, just use a half face respirator. The real issue is if fumes will get in the house, not so much for health, more for domestic tranquelity.

    While epoxy resins are great, and epoxy will bond to polyester, epoxy is also very expensive. I believe west systems are now over $100/gal, system 3 is approaching $100/gal and MAS is $60/gal. Check with skiffkits as I believe he is still selling resin, and has the best prices in the state.

    That said, I can't see any reason to use epoxy when working with a polyester glass hull. Polyester is in the $40-50/gal price and will work fine.

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    Member Sobie2's Avatar
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    Default

    I love boat projects... but.

    If you want to hit the ocean for cheap... Spend 3,000 or less and get an open 16' or 18' skiff like a lund or something for the salt.

    Keep your boat project for the lake.


    Sobie2

  16. #16
    Member ksbha4's Avatar
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    Thanks for the advise, I'll probably use the epoxy for most of the small repairs and transom work, but due to price, I'll use the poly stuff this summer when I glass over the marine plywood decking. The stringers are waterlogged, but almost no rot supprisingly. I used the drill to check in the bad spots and I got colored wood, not grey/black rot so I think I'll soak all three stringers with a rot stop wood resin. I tried to separate them from the fiberglass mold but that was such a pain that I just left them.

    Another question. Are transom heights standard to fit longshaft motors?
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    Member russiarulez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksbha4 View Post
    Another question. Are transom heights standard to fit longshaft motors?
    It depends on the boat. Smaller boats designed for a short shaft, some are designed for a long shaft, and deep V larger boats will only take an XL shaft.
    I've been out of Whittier and Seward in an older Searunner that sit in the water pretty low (long shaft Yamaha) and the water was up to the cowling when still. Wasn't my boat so not sure why it was that way (waterlogged foam maybe).
    Anyway, it did fine when underway, but when coming off step, the wake would catch up and go into the the splashwell. Any wave that hit the transom would spray into the boat.
    We almost swamped the boat when trying to put the boat on the trailer at the beach launch in Seward. Came back in the afternoon and the waves would just hit the back of the boat and soak everything inside.
    I learned a lot from using that boat however.

  18. #18
    Member russiarulez's Avatar
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    Also it looks like your boat is pretty much flat-bottom.
    Trust me - even on a nice day out of Whittier or especially Seward after a day on the water you will feel like someone's been kicking you in the back really hard.
    I would make the steering accommodate you standing up (especially the throttle lever), because sitting down in any chop will not be an option unless you have air-ride seats.

  19. #19
    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sobie2 View Post
    I love boat projects... but.

    If you want to hit the ocean for cheap... Spend 3,000 or less and get an open 16' or 18' skiff like a lund or something for the salt.

    Keep your boat project for the lake.


    Sobie2
    By far the best advice in the whole thread. That or a 16' inflatable.

  20. #20

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    There are lots of first rules about boating and one of them is there generally is no such thing as a cheap seaworthy boat. Sadly, I think your project is beyond hope. If it were an old corvette or something that potentially could have high value it might be worth the time and hours upon hours of effort that it will take to get it up to snuff. I fully believe that you will be much happier if you were to scrap that boat and get one that is designed for rugged use in salt water. Some have said take it to the lake, and that might be an option, but you can buy a decent little lake boat for far less than you'd put into the one you have to get it going. Others have noted an open skiff and they are an ok way to get on the water. But before you buy, rent one first as after you have been out in one on even a marginal day, you will appreciate the value and protection of a full cabin.

    Just so you know what you are getting yourself into with that one, I restored an old 16 foot 1956 Bayliner (closed bow) about 12 years ago that was in far better shape than what your pictures show. The hull and glasswork took forever and probably cost about $5-8 hundred dollars (or more) if you include all materials. The new Karavan trailer was 9 hundred dollars. The new gas tank, floor, glass, interior, steering, wiring, batteries, marine radio, stereo, fish finder, and top put me out $2,500 dollars or so. And then there was the lightly used 140 hp envinrude outboard that cost $2,700 with controls. The 6 hp (used) kicker for trolling was $400 bucks or so. Was it worth it? Maybe, as I still use it in the lower 48 for a couple of weeks when I visit relative while there in the summer. Did I get my money's worth? No way, and I couldn't sell it for more than $3,000 even though it is still a really nice little fishing boat.

    Whatever you do, just make sure you end up with what you want......that is if you even know....For me that is the hard part

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