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Thread: What's the deal?

  1. #1

    Default What's the deal?

    Although I have a feeling this thread will be moved, I hope it doesn't because I think it has everything to do with Alaska hunting.

    I read these forums and am amazed at some of the postings I see. Now maybe it's animal extremists stirring the pot, maybe it isn't, or maybe a little of both. Here a few things to keep in mind next time you feel the need to bash another hunter:

    - Animals feed people the same whether or not the horns go on the wall

    - You can't manage game populations with out managing predators

    - Just because you shoot 5 caribou a year and don't want to hang the horns on your wall, doesn't mean you should criticize the guy who shoots one in a lifetime and does want too (and vice-versa)

    - Game, like any other resource when managed properly can be used as a source of income.

    - There are no bunny retirement homes.....most animals, if not killed by humans, are either viciously killed by other predators, or they starve to death, plain and simple.

    - The guy that paid $300,000 dollars for a special permit, just funded A LOT of conservation for that species.

    - The next time you are out in the middle of nowhere, and some yahoo is in your hunting spot and he has ruined it for you....guess what, he is thinking the same thing about you!

    Ethics...........holy crap this is beat to death on forums. Ask a question about bear hunting and get three replies, ask a question about the "ethics" of bear hunting and get 3 pages. A few years back I read an article that really changed my perspective on this subject. It did not change my hunting ethics out in the field, but how I portray myself when discussing hunting. Before I go more into this, let me ask you a question.

    When on the subject of your kids, or parenting in general, do you first feel the need to discuss the ethical raising of children each and every time?

    Probably not, so why is the trend for hunters to do just that when talking about hunting? Just like parenting, ethics should be IMPLIED. If we continue to make that a standard of "qualifying ourselves", then it portrays an image that most hunters are not ethical, and that we are somehow "better than" the average hunter. It almost seems like a competition on here who can out do who on the most ethically written statements...........Really? Ethics should be proven, not promised, plain and simple. If anything political should be discussed, it should be the IMPORTANCE of hunting, and the CRUCIAL role hunters and hunting play in our ecosystem and the IMPROVEMENTS hunters have made and continue to make in wildlife population and habitat.

    In case you haven't noticed, how animal extremists operate is they chisel away at our rights, bit by bit until eventually, they are all gone. If we bicker back and forth just because "that's not the way I do it", then we are doomed. Both hunters and animal extremists are relatively small groups compared to the entire US population, but fortunately for us, animals are still made of meat and most Americans LOVE their cheeseburgers. It's time we quit being defensive and start being offensive. Hands down, hunters are the biggest conservationists on this planet, both time and monetary wise, let's promote that to the American people versus trying to "prove" to PETA we are ethical.


    Ryan

  2. #2
    Member broncoformudv's Avatar
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    Ryan that is a great post thank you!!

    You must have spent a bit of time on that one as it is well thought out and presented well to everyone on here. You bring up a lot of great points that I see on here all the time. This was not always the case but we sure are going down that road lately. Not sure what caused the shift in peoples postings on here but it has been that way for the past year or so. Prior to that time people did go off about the things you posted on but it was not as common. Now everyone on here is judge jury and executioner as well as the moral's and ethic's police.

    The hunters and outdoor users on here do not realize we are all on the same team regardless of how we chose to enjoy the outdoors. Everyone is constantly berating each other and not coming together in a unified front to help protect our ways or life.
    http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o...0junk/reag.jpg

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell

    Before taking any of my advice for granted on here research the legal ramifications thoroughly I am not the Troopers nor am I the Judge that will be presiding over your case/hearing. Please read the hunting and sportfishing regulations and feel free to interpret their meaning on your own.

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    Member pike_palace's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    This forum, like any other form of public discussion, has its share of internet trolls. There are not many, but a few people IMO come to this site with only negative information, and they post very few times.

    Great post though.
    "Ya can't stop a bad guy with a middle finger and a bag of quarters!!!!"- Ted Nugent.

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    Member BIG 27's Avatar
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    Default dito

    Very well said if u don't have nothing positive to contribute don't contribute at all.

    BIG 27
    ďA man does not climb a mountain without bringing some of it away with him,and leaving something of himself upon it -- Sir Martin Conway

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    Default ditto 2

    excellent post Ryan & Big 27...

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    I generally agree with this post though it is valuable to educate people that may be doing something that pushes the limit and could get a them in legal difficulties, that education is far better found on an internet board than experienced first hand! Unfortunately it is hard to word things on a message board to not ruffle feathers when that is the furthest thing from the intent of the post. That said it is best left to PM and the OP is welcome to provide more info if they feel it necessary to clarify.

    I do agree that there has been a somewhat obnoxious turn in the overall forum direction in about the last 15 months and I think it is most aparent in the reduction of pictures in our photo thread. That thread had been growing every year except 2007, and if you were around then you probably remember that Brian accidently deleted it and the count was much higher before that unfortunate event took place. I find it very disturbing that people seem less apt to publish their hunt photo's and trip reports as they are my favorite part of this forum!! It seems that there is a gumshoe behind every monitor inspecting rock formations, growth rings, and digital camera meta data to identify any potential wrong doing and call them out publically. I know of several great trips that were edited or cut short in their report, not because anything illegal was done but rather to avoid chastisement from the peanut gallery. A few more that were told over a beer but won't find there way into these digital pages, not because they aren't great stories but because they didn't go "as planned" or meat the "ideal". Heck I even take care with my photo's to pick an angle that doesn't make an animal look "a little young, or small". In fact my own goat isn't pictured because it is more red than white by the time it came to rest and I didn't want to deal w/ negative comments on my GREAT hunt! Ultimately the negativity hurts us all because we miss out on the great stories which is what makes this site so awesome and so coveted durring the winter months as a sanctuary to remember the past seasons triumphs and failures!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost_By_Choice View Post
    Although I have a feeling this thread will be moved, I hope it doesn't because I think it has everything to do with Alaska hunting.

    I read these forums and am amazed at some of the postings I see. Now maybe it's animal extremists stirring the pot, maybe it isn't, or maybe a little of both. Here a few things to keep in mind next time you feel the need to bash another hunter:

    - Animals feed people the same whether or not the horns go on the wall

    - You can't manage game populations with out managing predators

    - Just because you shoot 5 caribou a year and don't want to hang the horns on your wall, doesn't mean you should criticize the guy who shoots one in a lifetime and does want too (and vice-versa)

    - Game, like any other resource when managed properly can be used as a source of income.

    - There are no bunny retirement homes.....most animals, if not killed by humans, are either viciously killed by other predators, or they starve to death, plain and simple.

    - The guy that paid $300,000 dollars for a special permit, just funded A LOT of conservation for that species.

    - The next time you are out in the middle of nowhere, and some yahoo is in your hunting spot and he has ruined it for you....guess what, he is thinking the same thing about you!

    Ethics...........holy crap this is beat to death on forums. Ask a question about bear hunting and get three replies, ask a question about the "ethics" of bear hunting and get 3 pages. A few years back I read an article that really changed my perspective on this subject. It did not change my hunting ethics out in the field, but how I portray myself when discussing hunting. Before I go more into this, let me ask you a question.

    When on the subject of your kids, or parenting in general, do you first feel the need to discuss the ethical raising of children each and every time?

    Probably not, so why is the trend for hunters to do just that when talking about hunting? Just like parenting, ethics should be IMPLIED. If we continue to make that a standard of "qualifying ourselves", then it portrays an image that most hunters are not ethical, and that we are somehow "better than" the average hunter. It almost seems like a competition on here who can out do who on the most ethically written statements...........Really? Ethics should be proven, not promised, plain and simple. If anything political should be discussed, it should be the IMPORTANCE of hunting, and the CRUCIAL role hunters and hunting play in our ecosystem and the IMPROVEMENTS hunters have made and continue to make in wildlife population and habitat.

    In case you haven't noticed, how animal extremists operate is they chisel away at our rights, bit by bit until eventually, they are all gone. If we bicker back and forth just because "that's not the way I do it", then we are doomed. Both hunters and animal extremists are relatively small groups compared to the entire US population, but fortunately for us, animals are still made of meat and most Americans LOVE their cheeseburgers. It's time we quit being defensive and start being offensive. Hands down, hunters are the biggest conservationists on this planet, both time and monetary wise, let's promote that to the American people versus trying to "prove" to PETA we are ethical.


    Ryan
    Great post! It kilss me to see people post on a thread and kill it with negative attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by broncoformudv View Post
    Ryan that is a great post thank you!!

    You must have spent a bit of time on that one as it is well thought out and presented well to everyone on here. You bring up a lot of great points that I see on here all the time. This was not always the case but we sure are going down that road lately. Not sure what caused the shift in peoples postings on here but it has been that way for the past year or so. Prior to that time people did go off about the things you posted on but it was not as common. Now everyone on here is judge jury and executioner as well as the moral's and ethic's police.

    The hunters and outdoor users on here do not realize we are all on the same team regardless of how we chose to enjoy the outdoors. Everyone is constantly berating each other and not coming together in a unified front to help protect our ways or life.
    Hey Bronco remember the thread on the gal needing votes that thing wen tsouth real quick, theo ther thread about swappin ghunts as well. Ask a simple question and you are right Judge, Jury and excutioner are thier. Seems so folks on here can get away with anything and other can't...

    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    I generally agree with this post though it is valuable to educate people that may be doing something that pushes the limit and could get a them in legal difficulties, that education is far better found on an internet board than experienced first hand! Unfortunately it is hard to word things on a message board to not ruffle feathers when that is the furthest thing from the intent of the post. That said it is best left to PM and the OP is welcome to provide more info if they feel it necessary to clarify.

    I do agree that there has been a somewhat obnoxious turn in the overall forum direction in about the last 15 months and I think it is most aparent in the reduction of pictures in our photo thread. That thread had been growing every year except 2007, and if you were around then you probably remember that Brian accidently deleted it and the count was much higher before that unfortunate event took place. I find it very disturbing that people seem less apt to publish their hunt photo's and trip reports as they are my favorite part of this forum!! It seems that there is a gumshoe behind every monitor inspecting rock formations, growth rings, and digital camera meta data to identify any potential wrong doing and call them out publically. I know of several great trips that were edited or cut short in their report, not because anything illegal was done but rather to avoid chastisement from the peanut gallery. A few more that were told over a beer but won't find there way into these digital pages, not because they aren't great stories but because they didn't go "as planned" or meat the "ideal". Heck I even take care with my photo's to pick an angle that doesn't make an animal look "a little young, or small". In fact my own goat isn't pictured because it is more red than white by the time it came to rest and I didn't want to deal w/ negative comments on my GREAT hunt! Ultimately the negativity hurts us all because we miss out on the great stories which is what makes this site so awesome and so coveted durring the winter months as a sanctuary to remember the past seasons triumphs and failures!
    I know what you are talking about I read stories posted and love to see pics but recently thier has been people bashing people because of their photos example the deer stacked on the boat I thought that was a cool picture... But some thought otherwise even went as far as to say they wouldn;t touch the meat..

  8. #8
    Member broncoformudv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    I find it very disturbing that people seem less apt to publish their hunt photo's and trip reports as they are my favorite part of this forum!! It seems that there is a gumshoe behind every monitor inspecting rock formations, growth rings, and digital camera meta data to identify any potential wrong doing and call them out publically. I know of several great trips that were edited or cut short in their report, not because anything illegal was done but rather to avoid chastisement from the peanut gallery. A few more that were told over a beer but won't find there way into these digital pages, not because they aren't great stories but because they didn't go "as planned" or meat the "ideal". failures!
    After joining this site I did publish a hunt story but I am no Hemingway and did not clearly state everything in it and was bashed non stop for what I posted. I got so many negative pm's and post I had to ask Brian to delete my thread. It went from being one of the highlights of my life sharing a hunting experience with my family to the internet police criticizing everything we did. I then chose to just post pictures and still get pm's from ignorant people on here stating that I shot an illegal animal when I clearly stated where I hunted, what time of the year, etc and was in the RIGHT according to every regulation out there!

    I will continue to post pics on here so the cyberspace fin and feather troopers can kiss my **** I know I am doing the right thing and that is all that matters.
    http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o...0junk/reag.jpg

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell

    Before taking any of my advice for granted on here research the legal ramifications thoroughly I am not the Troopers nor am I the Judge that will be presiding over your case/hearing. Please read the hunting and sportfishing regulations and feel free to interpret their meaning on your own.

  9. #9
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    Default

    Great post and good timing with the cabin fever setting in - I enjoy seeing the pictures and hunt recaps as well.

  10. #10
    Member baitem907's Avatar
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    Lost by Choice,
    I couldn't agree more with your post.
    It serves as a reminder of why I choose not to post stories of our hunts. I would rather spend hours cherishing the moments of the hunt, instead of cropping the blood out of a photo to share on the forum.
    Its hunting. There is always bloodshed, even more so an ethics critic waiting in the wings to put his/her two cents in.
    Thanks for your post!!
    Jess
    Bait Em 907
    Bear Bait & Moose Lure Company
    www.baitem907.com
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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    We are the top predator and need to be included as part of game management.As far as the taking of game I don't believe the animals care if humans kill them or a wolf,dead is dead and the concept is mostly beyond them. Managing the top predator is much harder than managing the rest of it all.JMHO

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    Amen brotha

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    Eat more MEAT!
    Semper Fi!

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greythorn3 View Post
    Eat more MEAT!
    I always had my suspicions, thanks for the confirmation..





  15. #15

    Default Great Post

    That needed to be said and I appreciate every part of that letter, 1st time I wrote something on here got blasted and havn't responded much since.
    Thanks

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    Best Thread I've read all year!!!!

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    Member greythorn3's Avatar
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    PETA

    People Eating Tastey Animals
    Semper Fi!

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    Quote Originally Posted by broncoformudv View Post
    I will continue to post pics on here so the cyberspace fin and feather troopers can kiss my **** I know I am doing the right thing and that is all that matters.
    And I say more power to ya!

    A lot of 'holier than thou' attitues seen on the web and I agree...it gets old. I'm sure I've been guilty but its always a good reminder

    A+, Ryan, and rep on the way...

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    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost_By_Choice View Post
    I read these forums and am amazed at some of the postings I see. Now maybe it's animal extremists stirring the pot, maybe it isn't, or maybe a little of both.
    This statement has me confused.

    When ever I see a bashing thread on here I don't see where the bashers could be considered "animal extremists". They are usually one or more of the more popular (or prolific) members, and though extreme communicators by nature they are not what anyone would consider an animal extremist.

    If you have evidence of animal extremists operating on here please show us.

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    Default If I may

    One of the things a person has to considder making a public announcment is criticism. Especially on a format where they are encouraged to respond , even the uneducated arm chair athourity on every thing soup to nuts know it all .
    Long before the innernet, people that had something to say were met with conflicting opinions. If home work was not done and not all the facts strait , the holes would be shot through and points were proven.
    Ignorant people have just as much righ to this media as the highly educated and expirenced. Tree huggers and loggers .
    Considder your audience and the graphic reality you are about to share, and that to most of them chickens come from Kentucky fired chicken, or the grocery store. very few have even handled a live chicken much less kill one. But they love eatiing them.
    There have been some grusum methods of killing them on you tube , but no one has given up eating chicken because of it.
    Ignorant don't understand the "why"
    Why do you have to kill a bear ?
    Why do you have to kill a deer ?
    why do you have to trap or fish, or hunt , Why can't you go to the grocery store and get your food like every one else does around them , Why?????
    People justify them selves by their own need. make that need clear, and one that isn't going to turn around and bite you.
    If you are ashamed of the fact that your reason to kill something is merely to conquor a quest , accept the fact that there ar those that don't understand that the ones hunted are most likely going to die of old age. and the price of the whole event and those it helped, and the whole value of the harvest.
    I deal with ignorant people all the time , and in the simplest terms I have to make it clear to them thet the only ligidiment consirvationist, is burried dead and naked, desolving back into the soil. Every person alive, is taking the life from something to keep them self alive.

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