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Thread: A Better Barnes TSX

  1. #1
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    Default A Better Barnes TSX

    I liked what the original Barnes X bullet did to animals, but not how it delivered lower velocity at higher pressure with horrible fouling and spotty accuracy. When the TSX was announced, I immediately though they'd solved the problem by using driving bands and significantly reducing pressure, so I was somewhat disappointed to find they'd only milled a few grooves in the side of the bullet. Now don't get me wrong; I like the Barnes TSX and what it does on game animals, I just don't think they went far enough.

    After a lot of looking, I finally found a company that does it right:
    http://www.gsgroup.co.za/02hv.html

    Driving bands, long bullets, less engraving and drive pressure, higher velocities and exceptional performance. The price is a bit steep, but not when compared to Kynoch and Woodleigh. And it turns out they've been around since 1993! Guess this side of the pond is a little behind the times...There's a lot of reading on the site, but it's very enlightening, and the slideshow is worth the watch.

    So...What do y'all think? Anybody actually used them? Any experience would be much appreciated before I sink a bunch of money into bullets and shipping.

    Thanks,

    Adam

  2. #2

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    Adam, I like the looks of those bullets as well, especially the 30 cal GS HV 177 which has a BC of over .6 I'm hoping to give them a test in my 300 RUM. All the reports I've read on their external ballistics indicate they produce greater velocities and are accurate.

    There's a guy on the LR site that used them on a couple of hunts this year and liked their performance. Here's his reports.

    http://www.longrangehunting.com/foru...09-trip-49901/

    http://www.longrangehunting.com/foru...hunting-47760/

    Beartooth also used them once on deer. I believe he said they worked about like a TSX.

    Mark

  3. #3
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    Default Lots to read...

    It's an interesting site Adam, thanks for posting it. I linked over there for a bit, and you're right...there is alot of information there. I'll have to spend more time.

    My initial impression is that their bullet looks like a TSX from the future, and they looked exceptionally long to me. I went to their technical tab, and confirmed that they are longer than TSX's. I only compared one bullet, the .257 100grn. There's is 1.18", a 100grn TSX is 1.115". It is arguable whether or not these length differences are functionally significant. However, the TSX is already one of the longer hunting bullets on the market, so this length increase just might be a factor. For example, I've done alot of work with the .257 TSX's, and I can not stabilize a 115grn TSX (1.23") with a 10 twist barrel...I've tried and tried and I'm convinced that it can't be done.

    Therefore, my point is that these futuristic TSX's (bad term) may require a faster twist than standard barrel twist for caliber...however, that's just speculative. I'll read MR's links later today and see what others say. Beartooth might pipe-in, and it would be interesting to see what he says because he's very methodical when working-up loads. I'll shoot a quick PM to him and ask that he contribute.

    Doc

  4. #4

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    I have used both in the field in the following cartirdges, 257Wby, 30-06, 300Wby and 416Wby and a few others but mainly these. I used the TSX the most and ended a 4 season experiment with these on game in the field.

    Got great accuracy out of both bullets the TSX and the GS Custom. In fact I had to my surprise one of my groups posted by the owner on a website that sells GS Customs. Now that said, I do not like the results in the field on game. I will use them again only when I am forced to do so because lead core bullets have been band, but not until then. I guess if you have great expanses of open space to watch them run in after you have made a classic shot placement then I am sure you will like them.

    I have not been very popular with some because I hold this view but I have to live with myself. I just got tired of having to track game and in thick stuff it is not any fun. Now if I had not really tried hard with these bullets because they gave good accuracy and great velocities with less pressure and I wanted them to be the answer to some of my fast Weatherby's - I would not have a leg to stand on and would only be like those who like to talk about things without really trying them. I REALLY TRIED THEM, I TRIED HARD, MADE GOOD SHOTS - BUT WAS LEFT DISAPPOINTED AND FOR ME NOTHING CHANGES THAT!!!

    I really thought when they came out that they just had to be the next best thing to sliced bread. THEY AREN'T - now after all of this I am not saying they don't kill, they do, just not good enough and often enough for me. I am not going to loose a big trophy because I have a bullet that is accurate and gives good velocity but is not a devastatingly quick killer on a consistent bases. Is there bullets out there that are - YES!!! The Nosler Partition for one, but that is another subject and not for now.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
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  5. #5

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    Doc, you're right about the length and required stability factors of a lot of the GS bullets. The longer ones require tighter twists but most of the bullets will stabilize in standard off the shelf barrels. The recommended stability facotrs are in the tech data for each bullet.

    The 30 cal HV 177 typically requires a 1.1 SF (11 twist) for stable flight and a 1.4 SF (9 1/4 twist) for stable terminal performance at less than 500 yds. Of course, atmospheric conditions, MV, and barrel length will have an affect on stability as well.

    http://www.gsgroup.co.za/308177HV198.html

    The guy on the LR site is using a 30-338 Lapua Imp shooting the 177's with an MV of 3660 fps, out of a barrel with a 10 twist and I believe 27" in lenght and no stability problems.

    For typical 30 cal hunting rifles with 10 twists, shorter barrels and lower velocities the 173 bullets and shorter would be recommended.

    The .257 100 gr bullets are on the long side and require a 10 twist for stable flight and about an 8 1/4 twist for stable terminal ballistics inside 500 yds. I've been considering them for my 25-06 which will push a 110 AB @ 3500 fps. I would expect about 3900-4000 fps from the 100 gr GS bullet.

    The GS site is filled with a lot of very good info and reading.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by beartooth View Post
    I have not been very popular with some because I hold this view but I have to live with myself. I just got tired of having to track game and in thick stuff it is not any fun.
    BT, I completely trust your evaluation of the GS or any bullet for that matter and it doesn't at all affect your "popularity" in my eyes.

    As you know, my priorities in choosing a bullet are a little different than yours and the GS bullets "appear" to be the "perfect" bullet for my purposes.

    Having said that, the guy on the LR site, who hunts here in MT has used them on probably about a dozen animals, antelope, deer and elk and friends and family maybe another dozen more. His experiences are anywhere from DRTs to some walking off a few yards which is adaquate for my hunting purposes.

    I do totally understand your desire for a bullet that puts them down in their tracks.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
    BT, I completely trust your evaluation of the GS or any bullet for that matter and it doesn't at all affect your "popularity" in my eyes.

    As you know, my priorities in choosing a bullet are a little different than yours and the GS bullets "appear" to be the "perfect" bullet for my purposes.

    Having said that, the guy on the LR site, who hunts here in MT has used them on probably about a dozen animals, antelope, deer and elk and friends and family maybe another dozen more. His experiences are anywhere from DRTs to some walking off a few yards which is adaquate for my hunting purposes.

    I do totally understand your desire for a bullet that puts them down in their tracks.

    You have always been balanced in your approach to issues, shooting, hunting and reloading. Always giving things a great deal of thought and not just jumping off the end of the pier without checking how deep the water is. I like that about you and enjoy reading what you write on a subject even if I disagree or have had other experiences.

    Now that said, I am considering possibly trying the GS once again but in my 340Wby and for long shots across canyons and open spaces in Arizona when I go again. Now this will be determined by a test in a 50 gallon plastic barrel at 500yds with a back stop to catch the bullet. I am wanting to set this up testing the 250gr Partition and the 225gr GS HV. I need to know expansion at that distance and I am not taking anybodies word for it because they are not the ones trying to fill my tag.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
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    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  8. #8

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    BT, thanks for the very kind words.. maybe too kind

    On your 500 yds expansion test, may I recommend a cardboard box with a plastic garbage bag liner filled with water in it. I have read the plastic containers with thick walls may give unrealistic expansion results. Whatever you use, I'll sure be interested in the results.

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    Default

    I had to step away from the discussion to do some chores. Thanks for responding BT, I was interested in your thoughts and experiences. You already know that I value your opinion and respect your enthusiasm...you've never been unpopular with me. Like you said, many of us are actually out there doing it rather than just talking about it. While you and I have already discussed different field experiences with the X's and TSX's, that was not my reason for eliciting your comments. It was your experience with the GS bullets that I wanted to hear.

    Is it your experience that the GS bullets performed similarly as the TSX's on game? What accuracy difference did you experience between the two? Would you conclude that they are roughly equivalent or are the GS bullets significantly better? Did you have any trouble stabilizing these longer bullets with standard twists?

    Doc

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    Quote Originally Posted by beartooth View Post
    Now that said, I do not like the results in the field on game. I will use them again only when I am forced to do so because lead core bullets have been band, but not until then. I guess if you have great expanses of open space to watch them run in after you have made a classic shot placement then I am sure you will like them...
    - now after all of this I am not saying they don't kill, they do, just not good enough and often enough for me. I am not going to loose a big trophy because I have a bullet that is accurate and gives good velocity but is not a devastatingly quick killer on a consistent bases.
    Thanks Beartooth! I'm glad there's someone with first-hand knowledge so I can learn from your experience. Will you please elaborate on how these bullets kill? I don't expect everything to be dead right there unless I make a spine shot, and I'm not a spine shooter by nature. I expect an animal to run a little bit with a blown-up heart or jellied lungs (distance varies based on terrain), and to me it's more important that a bullet reliably expand and still penetrate all the way through even on tough angles.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel Nut View Post
    Thanks Beartooth! I'm glad there's someone with first-hand knowledge so I can learn from your experience. Will you please elaborate on how these bullets kill? I don't expect everything to be dead right there unless I make a spine shot, and I'm not a spine shooter by nature. I expect an animal to run a little bit with a blown-up heart or jellied lungs (distance varies based on terrain), and to me it's more important that a bullet reliably expand and still penetrate all the way through even on tough angles.
    First, where I hunt I do want the animal down quit if not in his tracks because where I hunt the state law is the last one to shoot the animal before he dies owns the animal. I don't want to loose a trophy that runs off, falls dead then some other hunter gets there first or sees it and shoots it claiming the animal.

    Now that said the TSX has killed everything I have shot with it but the distance that the game ran in all but two cases was unacceptable. The GS left a little better blood trail than the TSX but not much and the deer did not run as far. I do not have this problem when I use the Partition. Most and I mean above 90% of what I have shot with the Partition expires in it's track are not far from where it is shot and that is what I want. Nothing more and nothing less than this is the reason I do not like the TSX.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
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    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

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