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Thread: moose hunting with 30-06

  1. #1

    Default moose hunting with 30-06

    i use my 30-06 for deer with nosler bt but i was wondering with 180 gr tsx would penetrate enough to brake both shoulders of a moose from 1-300 yards? or the bullet would deflect off the shoulder blade ?

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    Member AKsoldier's Avatar
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    The 180 gr. TSX is a perfect round for moose in the '06. I wouldn't aim for the shoulders though - put it right behind the shoulder for a double lung shot. That will kill your moose quickly and humanely and you won't have to track it far. The kill zone on a moose is quite large - an easier target than the shoulder.

    The other 299,300,000 people can have it.

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    Member marshall's Avatar
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    As AKSoldier said, the kill zone is large and easy to find. Why waste two shoulders?

    If you already use the Nosler Ballistic Tip then just swap it with the Accubond in the same weight. They share the same load data and BC information so your work is already done. The Accubond is a tougher bullet than the Ballistic Tip.

  4. #4
    hap
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    Put it right through both shoulders on moose! Anyone that mentions ruining meat with TSX has not seen what they do. Take out the front wheel drive and the moose will fall right where it is. A 180gr TSX will take out both shoulders and keep going.

    Trailing a moose is a pain, especially if the last few steps get covered with water. I have had more than my share of cutting moose up in a pond...

    If you are going to shoot cup and core bullets, shooting behind the shoulders makes sense... But shooting moose with C&C bullets does not make sense...
    art

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by hap View Post
    Put it right through both shoulders on moose! Anyone that mentions ruining meat with TSX has not seen what they do. Take out the front wheel drive and the moose will fall right where it is. A 180gr TSX will take out both shoulders and keep going.

    Trailing a moose is a pain, especially if the last few steps get covered with water. I have had more than my share of cutting moose up in a pond...

    If you are going to shoot cup and core bullets, shooting behind the shoulders makes sense... But shooting moose with C&C bullets does not make sense...
    art
    what would be the max range to do this i now i can shoot well enough to hit the shoulder at 300 yards so precision is not a factor.

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    Member Chisana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hap View Post
    But shooting moose with C&C bullets does not make sense...
    Really? All of mine have been shot with basic bonded core Norma, Speer, and Alaska Bullet Works bullets have been hit right behind the shoulder. They have all stood there for a few seconds then fallen over dead. No meat loss, not trailing wounded animals and certainly no field dressing in the water.

    The shoulder is not a great killing shot. I prefer to take out the heart and lungs and make a good first shot. You will not have to worry about trailing an animal if you do that.

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    You'll be fine with that set-up. I killed my moose last year with a 270 Win. at over 300 yards. That said....you probably won't need anything like that kind of range. Most of the time you can get much closer....and you should.
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  8. #8

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    Moose die easy, but some of them take longer to fall over than others. All kinds of trouble can happen in the few seconds or minutes between bullet impact and the drop.

    I don't think you can predict a drop-in-its-tracks kills well enough to count on it with any gun or bullet unless you hit the brain or spine, however. Holes in shoulder blades sure won't do it reliably.

    Funny thing. I've only had two moose drop in their tracks-- never one hit with a 338 or a 375, though, including shoulder shots. The two that dropped in their tracks were shot at 50 yards with a 7mm Rem Mag and standard 150 grain factory loads (borrowed rifle) and a 270 Win with handloaded 150 grain Nosler Partitions at a little over 100 yards. Both were lung shots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    Moose die easy, but some of them take longer to fall over than others. All kinds of trouble can happen in the few seconds or minutes between bullet impact and the drop.

    I don't think you can predict a drop-in-its-tracks kills well enough to count on it with any gun or bullet unless you hit the brain or spine, however. Holes in shoulder blades sure won't do it reliably.

    Funny thing. I've only had two moose drop in their tracks-- never one hit with a 338 or a 375, though, including shoulder shots. The two that dropped in their tracks were shot at 50 yards with a 7mm Rem Mag and standard 150 grain factory loads (borrowed rifle) and a 270 Win with handloaded 150 grain Nosler Partitions at a little over 100 yards. Both were lung shots.
    This sounds a lot like my experience as well BB. Moose are not hard to kill, but relatively few DRT. Bob Hagel has said that "I never shot a moose that went anywhere. But neither have I ever shot one that dropped in his tracks to the first hit." Now Bob is not the great standard or chief of all things related to moose, but he killed quite a few moose and saw more shot besides. My experience is very similar and I would echo his comments that moose that are not shot in the CNS live for their normal "one minute and fifty-three seconds" no matter where they are hit or what you hit them with. When mortally wounded, they often lie down quickly, but I have approached more alive moose that were fatally shot than any other game animal.

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    For what it's worth, in 2007 I made a poor first shot on a moose (long frontal shot that skipped along the ribs under the shoulder). A follow up shot at about 350 yds took him dead center in the shoulder. It was a complete pass through with about a 1.5" hole in the middle of each blade.

    I was shooting a 30-06 with 180 gr Speer Mag-tips (cup and core).

    Moose fell but got up and kept going at a good rate of speed. Didn't touch anything vital with that shot, and it didn't slow him down very much. I did recover him a few hundred yards further along, but it wasn't because of that bullet.

    Just my experience. I vote with Chisana and others that shoulder shots are a bad choice. A 180 gr bullet of most types will make it through a shoulder at any reasonable range, but why aim there in the first place? Moose have a very large hump, and you can easily break the shoulder and miss the lungs entirely. Not the mention all the bone fragments and messed up meat.

    Yk

  11. #11

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    how dose a 300 win mag preform on moose with 200 or 220 gr bullets my dad stoped using his 300 win mag becasu he say that the bullet is to fast that it gows right threw the moose and not expanding?

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Cor15:19 View Post
    This sounds a lot like my experience as well BB. Moose are not hard to kill, but relatively few DRT. Bob Hagel has said that "I never shot a moose that went anywhere. But neither have I ever shot one that dropped in his tracks to the first hit." Now Bob is not the great standard or chief of all things related to moose, but he killed quite a few moose and saw more shot besides. My experience is very similar and I would echo his comments that moose that are not shot in the CNS live for their normal "one minute and fifty-three seconds" no matter where they are hit or what you hit them with. When mortally wounded, they often lie down quickly, but I have approached more alive moose that were fatally shot than any other game animal.
    MY last two had dumped into their own tracks... 2008 his front feet touched his back feet as he colapsed...


    i aim ( with my 180 gn 300 wm, noslers accubond) front quartering shot and set my cross hair on the leading edge of the shoulder, between it and the brisket.

    i tell ya what... you wanna see one tumble then and there. thats the ticket

    i didn't believe the first time..so i did it again last year... Daniel in AK watched .. as the moose feet left the ground looking for light speed outa there... i hit him same spot.. all four feet and the rest of him followed same path down..

    my 300 has blown all the way through.. normally with large parts missing on the other end... and at an average of 2900fps...i don't think that is too fast.
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  13. #13
    hap
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    Thinking some could use a little basic anatomy diagram...

    http://tradgang.com/user_images/diagram.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by luisss View Post
    how dose a 300 win mag preform on moose with 200 or 220 gr bullets my dad stoped using his 300 win mag becasu he say that the bullet is to fast that it gows right threw the moose and not expanding?

    This is one of the biggest myths about guns and hunting. All things being equal, meaning bullet design, weight, caliber, etc, the higher the impact velocity the faster the expansion occurs. I'm not sure how this myth got started, or why it continues but it is really pretty simple. Here is an example that most people can relate to:

    Take a brick wall and drive your vehicle into it at 2 mph. How much damage occurs to your vehicle's front end? Now take that same vehicle and increase the speed to 60 mph. How much damage occurs to your vehicle's front end now? Obviously the faster you're driving the more damage occurs, the more the front end is smashed. In this scenario your vehicle is really nothing more than a projectile, just like a bullet. The faster it's travelling upon impact the greater it's front end is damaged....the faster it's travelling the greater it's front end expands?

    Bullet expansion helps create reliable kills. Years ago the available technology limited how fast bullets could be designed to travel. Simple cup and cores worked fine at these lower velocities. But when new powders and cartridges became available velocities increased, and as a result cup and cores were often over stressed at impact. They then blew up on the surface and didn't provide sufficient penetration to reach the vitals. This is why premium bullets were created. I.E. the Nosler Partition. They were tougher so they could withstand the higher impact velocities without blowing up. Lower velocity rounds still perform quite well with cup and core bullets. A good example is the .35 Whelen. While some run Partition's and X bullets in their Whelens, many run cup and cores like Speers and Hornadys with fine results even on larger ungulates.

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    Quote Originally Posted by okbowman View Post
    This is one of the biggest myths about guns and hunting. All things being equal, meaning bullet design, weight, caliber, etc, the higher the impact velocity the faster the expansion occurs. I'm not sure how this myth got started, or why it continues but it is really pretty simple. Here is an example that most people can relate to:

    Take a brick wall and drive your vehicle into it at 2 mph. How much damage occurs to your vehicle's front end? Now take that same vehicle and increase the speed to 60 mph. How much damage occurs to your vehicle's front end now? Obviously the faster you're driving the more damage occurs, the more the front end is smashed. In this scenario your vehicle is really nothing more than a projectile, just like a bullet. The faster it's travelling upon impact the greater it's front end is damaged....the faster it's travelling the greater it's front end expands?

    Bullet expansion helps create reliable kills. Years ago the available technology limited how fast bullets could be designed to travel. Simple cup and cores worked fine at these lower velocities. But when new powders and cartridges became available velocities increased, and as a result cup and cores were often over stressed at impact. They then blew up on the surface and didn't provide sufficient penetration to reach the vitals. This is why premium bullets were created. I.E. the Nosler Partition. They were tougher so they could withstand the higher impact velocities without blowing up. Lower velocity rounds still perform quite well with cup and core bullets. A good example is the .35 Whelen. While some run Partition's and X bullets in their Whelens, many run cup and cores like Speers and Hornadys with fine results even on larger ungulates.
    The flip side of this is that a bullet can be constructed too tough for a certain impact velocity to reliably expand, which will result in good penetration but with a narrow would channel. Really tough bullets often don't expand well in lower velocity cartridges, which is why many handloaders run cup and cores in these rounds.

    This is also why many long range shooters/hunters and hangun hunters like the Nosler Ballistic Tip. In most calibers it is a fairly soft and fragile bullet which expands well at lower impact velocities, which are often the norm at longer range and with hand cannons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hap View Post
    Put it right through both shoulders on moose! Anyone that mentions ruining meat with TSX has not seen what they do. Take out the front wheel drive and the moose will fall right where it is. A 180gr TSX will take out both shoulders and keep going.

    Trailing a moose is a pain, especially if the last few steps get covered with water. I have had more than my share of cutting moose up in a pond...

    If you are going to shoot cup and core bullets, shooting behind the shoulders makes sense... But shooting moose with C&C bullets does not make sense...
    art
    I'm with Hap 100% on this one. Yes, double lung shots kill effectively. However, an animal can run a ways with such a shot. They will die, but I think a double lunged animal is more likely to make it into a tough place for recovery, like a lake or a river, than one will with both shoulders busted. I will take more certain recovery over a little bloodshot meat any day.

  17. #17

    Default depends...

    I am going to say your probably not going to break both shoulders on a moose at 300 yards with the 180 X bullet out of a 30-06. Good chance of breaking a shoulder and going into the lungs if the angle is right though. Also, moose vary a lot in size. Your fork/horn won't be nearly as big as your 60 incher. We have been killing moose, caribou and black bears with the 180 X for many years. We like it.

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    Member Chisana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hap View Post
    Put it right through both shoulders on moose!
    Quote Originally Posted by hap View Post
    Thinking some could use a little basic anatomy diagram...

    http://tradgang.com/user_images/diagram.jpg
    I checked out your diagram. The take home message from your diagram is that you do not want to shoot at the shoulder (scapula, humerus) if you want a solid hit to a vital area. Assuming you got a solid hit on one of the shoulder bones, which are a very small target, you will just barely clip a lung.

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    let the situation dictate what shot you take.

    Luis, your 06 will work just fine with any of the bullets you mentioned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    MY last two had dumped into their own tracks... 2008 his front feet touched his back feet as he colapsed...


    i aim ( with my 180 gn 300 wm, noslers accubond) front quartering shot and set my cross hair on the leading edge of the shoulder, between it and the brisket.

    i tell ya what... you wanna see one tumble then and there. thats the ticket

    i didn't believe the first time..so i did it again last year... Daniel in AK watched .. as the moose feet left the ground looking for light speed outa there... i hit him same spot.. all four feet and the rest of him followed same path down..
    Sounds like an excellent plan Vince. I am certainly not suggesting that moose never drop at the shot, but IME it is a rare occurrence. As for your shot placement, that sounds spot on if you have that presentation, but for me moose are hard enough to find without making certain that I have one that is quartering towards me.

    I was simply suggesting that moose often stay on their feet for a short distance even with a solid hit from a substantial bullet. Some hunters get all bent out of shape when they do not DRT. While I hope for that and try my best for a clean kill, I also know that most moose will move 20-50 yards after a well placed shot and fall either dead or dying.

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