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Thread: APHA wants my clients to fund THEIR progam?

  1. #1
    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    Default APHA wants my clients to fund THEIR progam?

    I got this email from APHA headquarters today...
    basicly it tells me that to be an APHA memeber i have to charge my clients extra money to help fund the projects that AHPA is putting forward. which currently is the guide concession program. In a weird twisted way, i would have to charge my clients to potentialy put me out of business...?
    just thought i'd share it here, as alot of APHA rumors have gone around surrounding the GCP in the first place, figured this would shed some light on it...


    "During the APHA annual Board of Directors and Membership meeting held on December 5th, the fifty plus members present and the APHA Board voted unanimously to make participation in the Nonresident Hunter Preservation Fund mandatory for all APHA Professional members. Much discussion occurred which is reflected in the meeting minutes that are posted on the APHA website. Bottom line was that it does not cost our Professional Members anything to participate, our clientele is very willing to pay the fee and become a member and the program is vitally important to providing for our future.

    In the past, participation has been optional and although we have had nearly unanimous agreement from all professional member guides in the value of the program, we continue to see that many guides are not actually participating. Your participation in the program is essential in order for APHA to be able to preserve and enhance quality hunting opportunities for non-resident hunters and our ability to control our own destiny in providing these services

    There were two approved amendments to the motion prior to it passing:


    1. Aaron Bloomquist asked that all Disabled Veteran clients receive the membership free.

    2. Bobby Fithian asked that any member who is not currently involved in the program be have the ability to contact the APHA office and Pledge to become active in the program during 2010. This would allow for any member who is not currently involved that pledges to become active will have access to the Sportsman's Insurance Co. General Liability Insurance program.


    If you are a Professional member of APHA and not currently involved please contact the office or review the program description on the APHA website and review the attached NRHPF letter and examples of how to implement the program into your business. It is vitally important that at this particular time when many aspects of our industry are in transition, that we continue to turn together and support industry representation. If you have any questions or concerns please contact the office, any Board member or any of the members who have been actively participating which are listed below."
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  2. #2
    Member ret25yo's Avatar
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    wow... interesting..time to research APHA

    If you cant stand behind the troops in Iraq.. Feel free to stand in front of them.

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    sign me up Jake!!!!how much it cost?


    oh who cares how much eh? it's only money... do they want my CC on file too to bill me just when ever they need cash or how does it work?
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    Member ret25yo's Avatar
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    darn can't edit.... but heres for those that dont know how this is seems to work..

    The NRHPF is a $150.00 fee per contracted client, which each APHA professional member(Alaska Master or registered Guide) is responsible to collect and pay to APHA. NRHPF funds received by the contracting guide may be paid to APHA at any time during each year but are due by December 1st of each year. To protect the privacy between clients and guides, personal information will be kept strictly confidential by APHA. Additionally, anyone wishing to make a direct donation to this fund can do so by direct mailing to APHA.

    from the website http://www.alaskaprohunter.org/join.htm

    and each client that pay's the 150.00 recieves:

    Two year sustaining membership in The Alaska Professional Hunters Association
    APHA Conservation Pin (Special Design by Rob Holt)
    Two year subscription to The Alaska Professional Hunter Magazine and Bare Facts Newsletter
    APHA membership Certificate
    APHA Patch, Lapel Pin and Decal The knowledge that they have helped to give future generations the ability to hunt in Alaska

    That last one can tickle the funny bone

    I think this is still pretty confusing BRWNBR.... Are you saying that they will deny your (a guides) membership if they dont recieve these funds from you (or clients) ?

    If you cant stand behind the troops in Iraq.. Feel free to stand in front of them.

  5. #5

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    Certainly nothing against the APHA, however, there are many other ways to make positive contributions to both the industry (guiding) and the resource besides being a member. Certainly participating in educational programs and resource issues are but a couple. All too often, all too many, are content to sit on the sidelines and complain.
    One major "problem" is to avoid falling into the trap of assuming that if the APHA supports a particular concept it must be bad.
    Joe (Ak)

  6. #6
    Member ret25yo's Avatar
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    I have nothing against APHA, as this is the first I've researched about it, but coming (jumping) to the conclusion that they only exist to increase "outside" hunting opportunities is not a difficult thing to do.. right now subsistance and resident hunts are being cut and I hate to say it but ... If there was one animal in this state... it belongs to the state and is considered a resource for the people of the state.

    I woulde rather see it to an resident.. I'll just have to see if this Org. does anything for the residents or the communities that it occupies?

    just need clarification if anyone has some...Yes i can see how the organization is great for guides... But im not a guide, im a resident. Is there an APHA "idaho", or APHA "colorado"?

    If you cant stand behind the troops in Iraq.. Feel free to stand in front of them.

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    Member gusuk1's Avatar
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    Default said it more then once

    APHA,is no friend to the mom and pop style guide,and to those of you that joined them thinking you were going to get some brownie points what do you have to say other then you cut your own throat and paid for it.no bleeding heart here for any apha member.

  8. #8
    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    i'm ok with it being a voluntary issue but to say i can't be a member unless my clients pay...seems a bit off.

    i've got some guys who would pay it and i've got others who wouldn't.
    the APHA is not all bad..just a few issues and postions on things seems tweeked. but its a special interst group and like all of us, we are out to protect ourselves..only natural. just thought it would be intesting to share some of the stuff behind the scenes since APHA has been involved in alot of threads without anyone knowing much about them.
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  9. #9
    Member ret25yo's Avatar
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    well BRWNBR .. just wondering what the org contributes to ALASKA?

    It would be interesting to see how many non res guides are banefiting from their lobbying?

    just asking outloud looking for answers... I have no opinion on the ORG.








    .....yet



    wow kept researching.... something hit close to home lol....
    Alaska Professional Hunters Association, Inc.
    HC60 Box 299C
    Copper Center, AK 99573
    Phone: 907-822-3755
    FAX: 907-822-3752
    Email APHA Office




    Was the ORG started by the guide of AKmountainsafaris, or is that just the guy that gets the mail?

    If you cant stand behind the troops in Iraq.. Feel free to stand in front of them.

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    Bobby Fithian pointed out that the APHA "clientele would be happy to pay the fee" and it got me wondering where he came up with that information.

    I think it was 'wolfwatching' that first posted this website link:

    http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/pow...dventures.html

    There are many complaints about this guide all over the internet.

    The guide listed here is a member of the APHA and I'll bet that his client would not have been happy to pay the fee! The point I am trying to make is that if this guide can be a member of the APHA, what does it say about the reputation of the APHA? I would hope that the APHA would expell a guide like that from their organization, otherwise, who would be 'happy to pay the fee' to their guide? Or their APHA dues if they are a guide?

    The DNR website taking public comments weblink is: http://www.dnr.alaska.gov/mlw/gcp/

    There are a lot of people that want to see this concession program clean out the crooks. I hope they can come up with a good way of doing just that, without rewarding the crooks who have been able to avoid the tickets because of their ability to minimize situations or cut deals with enforcement.

  11. #11
    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    kent, oddly enough the one thing that kept me from becoming an APHA member for so long was the members themselves. i know alot of instances, some personal , some second hand about guides that aren't operating ethicaly or inside the APHA code of conduct.

    In all of this GCP stuff the APHA has never asked me for my take, but yet they claim to be the voice for alaska guides, but thats misleading. they are the voice for their active/assertive members. If you send them money, pay your dues/membership, thats nice. But unless you are on the same train of thought as the "click" in APHA, they dont' really want to here it.

    I tried to talk with two of the big wheels last year up in fairbanks about some issues with the GCP, and they just sat there trying to interupt, you could just see they were waiting for a chance to jump in and "educate" me, they clearly weren't listening nor do they have an open mind.

    I don't think its coinicidence that this mandatory non residnt fee comes at a time when they feel the GCP is running outa steam...this will generate thousand and thousands of dollars at a time when they need it. I just can't see telling my clients they have to pay this, then tell them to wait on rebooking, i might not have a job next year....

    clever idea though.
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    Default same-O

    BRWNBR,
    I got the same letter.
    I WAS a APHA member for a few years. After paying my dues for the year 2009, I took what some might say is a firm stance, an overt and vocal negitive stance, against their pet project the DNR Guide Concession Plan.
    About eight months ago I sent an email to them requesting that my name be removed from all actice records...and it never was. I have to believe that their Executive Director is very, very acutely aware of my objections to his project. After all, during the DNR GCP teleconferences he clearly became angry with my questions on several occasions. As in, he threatened to "ban me" from the public telephonic process. And then after each teleconference ended those members on the subcommittee who also did not support the deal (but who would not voice their objections) would call be to inform me of what was said in their private conversations and what irked him the most (about me).

    Despite the fact that I did not pay dues for 2010, I'm still listed on their stuff.
    I don't get it. Am I supposed to ask two or three times to be removed from their professional member list? Am I supposed to beg?
    And how many other former members are still listed among their list of 140 professional members?
    I know of at least six former members who have split solely due to this DNR/APHA concession project.

    Concerning their "tax" system. Their current letter indicates it is now a "mandatory tax". Previously, it was a voluntary system for them to raise money. And I was one of those that contributed some money, not a ton but some, toward their effort (when I still believed they cared a **** about their members). Apparently only 15 percent of their 140 professional members ever contributed toward their "internal voluntary tax". That means that about 21 members contributed some funds. At one time back in 2008 I noticed that only about half of their own board of directors contributed into their "tax system". At the 2008 (or '09) meeting the Exec Director announced that only 15 percent of the members contributed and he then announced the total amount collected in 2008. At that point one prominent guide-outfitter burst out that if the total amount contributed in 2008 was accurate, then he along must have contributed 25 percent! All the non-contributors (including those on the BOD) involuntarily sunk down about four inches in their chairs. Interesting reaction.

    Anyway...they do not support my interests, so bye bye.

    I'm sure gonna miss that cool belt buckle.

    Dennis

  13. #13
    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    i've been a memeber for two years and never got the buckle..... go figure...won't be a member for a thrid year either...
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    Member gusuk1's Avatar
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    Default Gee wiz

    as much as i hate to voice my thoughts on what you are gripping about,just have to say what did you expect from the great war lords of APHA,other then you pay their way to meetings in which they are makeing a concession plan to take your guide use area away from you and have it all for them selves

  15. #15
    Member AlaskaTrueAdventure's Avatar
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    Question Expectations...

    gusuk1,

    First of all, I hope you do voice/write your thoughts. I mean, this is a conversational forum, and any and all of us have stuff to say. Including you, I hope. You post, I believe as I do...because you, we, care.

    Now relating to your question...what did I (or you or we) expect?
    I got to tell you gusuk1, while I do not know what I expected, I really never expected 'em to effectively spearhead this program. What bothers me even more is, that I absolutely never expected DNR to to buy it all...hook-line-sinker.

    And by the way, you are one of the guys, I believe, that some of the concession questions really discriminates against most.
    Questions like... How many quide examinations have you proctored??
    I mean, how much would it cost you to contract an aircraft from your rural residence to Dillingham? Then fly commercial to Anchorage? Then rent a hotel room for a few days? Then return to your home? Maybe 3K, perhaps 4K?...so that you could participate in a "community service project"!
    That is discrimination against a rural resident, who does not have the same available opportunities as a resident of Anchorage or Fairbanks (to proctor). And that should be considered in the ensuing legal challenge following the future implementation of this DNR/APHA concession abortion.

    Sincerely,

    Dennis

    And to you I say...I say...I...say..."TOUCHE!"

    Dennis

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    Member gusuk1's Avatar
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    Unhappy a little more then touchie

    i looked into joining the ranks of apha yrs ago-10 or so and back then there was hardly a alaskan address attached to the so called ALASKAN guides trying to keep my cool about how the apha has and is trying to take over the guideing buss here in my (our) backyard yet you look at the yrs schulude that they have and there is nothing here in the state ,have posted comments and put monies in a fund for the law suites that will arise from this bs from the queen palin days.just sad to see so many to join the ranks in hopes in getting some brownie points,have yet to see any thing asking if you live were you hunt or help those ALASKANS in the area you hunt,but with the apha program it lets help the boys from texas and ---------

  17. #17
    Member ret25yo's Avatar
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    O.K. As an "outsider"... I can see the bad... unfortunately to much "bad" in the Org... so my question is essentially.... what would make a Guide..or any person want to become a member.,..


    is it a convincing monologue from other member guides??
    is it the thought that I might get some bennies from this group cause they have some pull with BOG?

    just wondering how any alaskan can support the group?

    i mean i can see they might get a few members if they are fighting against more land takeover..or land takeback..or against tierII .. there has to be something out there...

    If you cant stand behind the troops in Iraq.. Feel free to stand in front of them.

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    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    i joined just to be more in the loop on this concession stuff, because no one sends you a letter and says this is whats up..noper. so i joined hopin' to keep my eye on the scene and what was going on. boy did i get an eye full.

    The guide industry is no longer about a PERSONAL alaskan experience in the wilds of alaska, trekkin' across tundra for 3 or 4 weeks at the hopes of bagging five or six trophies and building friendships with some of alaska's wildest pioneers. experiencing all alaska has to offer, floods, snow, rain, wind, lots of wind, more wind and rain. blown down tents, bears in your meat shed, broken airplanes, sunk boats, no communication, living off the land...all the things that make an adventure memoriable...
    no, its about killing and make money doing it all as comfortably and secure with as little risk as possible. its about selling a hunt with a high pecentage attached to it, farming the client out to an assistant so you can book more clients to bring in more money to pay for the lodge, hot tub, chef, camp pilot(s), wranglers, packers, the new sat phone and sat TV in the lodge, the land use fees, insurance, airplanes, boats and ATV's. its not about the hunt. If it was...would we even be talking about the GCP?!

    Tradition is not a word that should ever be used in a room full of modern day guides. An unsuccessfull hunt is evil in the eyes of todays consumers and guides. People will do or pay whatever they have to, to "buy" the animal they want to "hunt".

    The industy as a whole has lost itself years ago. the meaning of success was replaced with harvest stats and politics, its now who you know. Very few, can still have a great hunt and not kill a trophy....and now trophy means big animal..no longer means an animal you are proud of...trophy used to be more in the eyes of the beholder..now it is in the eyes of everyone who wasn't there!

    I wish sharing a campfire, lousy weather, a warm gut pile, blisters, cold nights, fresh tenderlion and the ups and downs of success could still be shared by everyone who dreams it. its slipping away too....
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    I figured the APHA would be well enough funded through their shell organization Sportsman For Wildlife (SFW). They are doing a smashing job getting resident hunters to donate money to cut their own opportunity.

    Dennis, you know why your still on the list, and I am sure there are numerous others. The more members in the ranks the more power is in the voice! Even if you don't pay your dues they still use your name, you just wont get the letter telling you what they are using it for.

    Not to be an alarmist but there is a massive attack on both residents and small guides going on right now. There is undoubtedly a well planned shell game going on and the loser is going to be "little" people like BRWNBR in the guide industry and 99% of the members of this board! The future is high dollar tags auctioned off to rich non-res and allocated to specific guides who own the rights to that region. That and a pile of preference points so that we all get to hunt once in our lifetime, hopefully before we are too old to actually do it.

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    Member gusuk1's Avatar
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    Thumbs up can't agree anymoore

    as to what jakes last post states(18)

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