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Thread: H-110 or Lil-Gun with 400gr cast in 480 Ruger?

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    Default H-110 or Lil-Gun with 400gr cast in 480 Ruger?

    I'm just starting to load my 7.5" SRH 480. Hopefully my primary bullet is going to be the 400 gr Lee.
    For those loading 400s in the 480, what is your favorite powder, priimarily between H-110 & Lil-Gun?
    I've used H-110 in the 44 mag for years, but can get a good deal on Lil-Gun (8# keg)right now. Accuracy is of course most important, then velocity, but I'm also interested in how the recoil "feels" (sharp slap vs big shove) as I'm starting to get arthritus in my shooting hand.
    Thanks
    Vance in AK.

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    I don't load for 480 but have loaded 460S&W, 454, 45Colt, 41, and even 357 with H110/W296 and LilGun. I loaded with H110/W296 for a long time before I gave LilGun a try and it's better in every way I think matters. LilGun is much cleaner burning and gives better velocity with lower pressure in everything I have used it in to replace H119/W296. I can't tell any difference in recoil with like loads and accuracy is the same or very slightly better with LilGun. Snap up that "good deal" and enjoy!
    Andy
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    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    As I mentioned in my pm, in my 7 1/2" srh 480, I've used both Lil-gun and H-110 with the 400 gr lee, and with 21 gr of either powder I get ~1200 fps and 5 shot 1" groups at 50 yds (off the bench with a scope) I've used both powders with a 390 gr LBT lfn, and a 400 gr custom long nose lfn style mold. All three bullets clock ~1200 fps and print 5 shot 1" groups with the 21 gr charge of either powder.

    If I were to pick between lil-gun and H-110 it would be depend on if I planned to shoot heavier or lighter bullets. Lil-gun is generally a slightly faster powder than H-110 and lights off more easily, so I'd recomend it for 400gr and lighter bullets in the 480. H-110 is still an excellent magnum pistol powder, but likes a good heavy slug well crimped in the case to get it burning, so for 400 gr and heavier bullets it would be my choice.

    I'll have to check my notes, but as I recall my shooting buddy was able to get the 400 gr lee bullet loaded to the rear canalure clocking 1350 fps using lil-gun in his 7 1/2" srh, with no pressure signs. That mold was one of 3 prototypes lee sent out for testing and I still have the mold. I never loaded my 480 past 1200 fps with a 400 gr bullet, recoil increases rapidly with every additional 50 fps. (though I did manage to push a 460 gr to 1150 fps using H-110 during load work, and man that was a handful, also sticky extraction as it was a too hot load.)

    8#'s is alot of powder for magnum handgun loads, so I'd consider what other uses you'll have for the powder. It took me years to go through 3# of H-110 and 1# of Lil gun. The majority of my shooting is with unique and 275 and 310 gr bullets. The lee 400 gr does shoot quite well with 7 gr of unigue ~700 fps, good accuracy and mild recoil.

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    Member alaskamonte's Avatar
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    Default Avoid Lil GUN!!

    According to Bob Baker @ Freedom Arms Lil Gun causes rapid barrel/throat wear

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskamonte View Post
    According to Bob Baker @ Freedom Arms Lil Gun causes rapid barrel/throat wear
    Interesting, I have shot about 2000 rounds from my S&W 460V with about 500 being LilGun rounds and it it's still all new looking inside. I have also heard that H110/W296 likes to flame cut the frame on 460s but my frame still only has tool marks after 1000 or so rounds with this powder.
    Andy
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    I too have heard the Lil-Gun warnings, but know guys who have shot several thousand rounds with -0- evidence of a problem.

    I went ahead & picked up a pound of Lil-gun to try. My plan right now is to put togetherabout 10 rds each with about 21.0 gr each of Lil-Gun (WW primers), H-110 (WW primers, & H-110 (Federal LP mag primers) & see what I end up with. If I have to go with mag primers in H-110 but standard WW work fine with Lil-Gun, I'll probably go Lil-Gun because I have 1 couple thousand WW primers on hand, but only 300 Federal mag primers & can't find mag primers locally.

    Paul, you are right, 8# is a lot. but any time I can get powder for $19.80 per# these days I get excited & am tempted to go a little overboard! Thanks for the PM by the way. You have been my best source of info for this thing.

    Now I just need time to load & shoot!!!!!!!
    Vance in AK.

    Matthew 6:33
    "But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you."

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    Member JoeJ's Avatar
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    LilGun will probably heat your barrel more than H110/296, IMR4227 or N110/120 powders. I've noticed a big difference in barrel temperture in my 50 calibers, both the JRH and the Smith. Others have reported basically no difference in barrel heat with smaller calibers, but FA definately doesn't recommend it for their revolvers.

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    Interesting discussion here about Lil-Gun. I'd never heard the FA warnings. I've been thinking about trying some in my 45 Colt and 454 loads to see what all the fuss was about.... higher velocity, lower pressure/recoil, etc. I know Murphy detests H110/W296 and figures it's only good for fertilizer. He prefers H4227 and N110. I wonder what his findings are with LilGun.

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    I know Murphy detests H110/W296 and figures it's only good for fertilizer. He prefers H4227 and N110. I wonder what his findings are with LilGun.
    I think I remember him saying he had never tried it about 6 months ago and with the move I doubt he has had time yet. Hope he shows back up here some day.
    Andy
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    I think I remember him saying he had never tried it about 6 months ago and with the move I doubt he has had time yet. Hope he shows back up here some day.

    I know he gave me a good bit of N-110 before he left
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    OK, went & did a little (very little) testing today.
    Temp was 25*, no wind. I was kneeling on both knees & using a sandbag rest under the frame. Pretty secure, but hands were a bit chilly. I didn't feel GREAT about my shooting, but felt that it was good enough to give me an idea of potential. I tried 4 different loads, 3 "performance" loads, & a plinking load.
    I tried H-110 with both WW primers, & Fed LPM primers to see what the difference would be, & was an eye opener.
    Bullet for all loads was 400gr Lee cast from WW & tumble lubed with Xlox.

    20.0 gr Lil-Gun, WW primer, avg vel 1151, extreme spread 41fps. Accuracy potential good.

    20.0 gr H-110, WW primer, avg vel 988, extreme spread 94fps. Accuracy potential poor.

    20.0 gr H-110, Federal LP mag primer, avg vel 929, extreme spread 86fps. Accuracy potential good.

    8.0 gr Unique, WW primer, avg vel 826, extreme spread 22fps. Accuracy potential good.

    The surprise for me was that with H-110 the federal mag primer turned in lower velocity. Did have much better accuracy & slightly smaller extreme spread though.

    As far as recoil, the Lil-Gun had slightly more felt recoil, but with an additional 163fps that is to be expected! Not as much recoil difference as I would expect considering the velocity gain. I'm sure if I got the H-110 up to 1150 the recoil would be at LEAST as stiff if not worse.
    I would say that recoil with the Lil-Gun wasn't really any worse (didn't compare them side by side) than 320s out of my mod. 29 @ 1320fps.
    I think I'll put my focus into the Lil-Gun for now. Seems to have the best potential.
    Vance in AK.

    Matthew 6:33
    "But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vance in AK View Post
    The surprise for me was that with H-110 the federal mag primer turned in lower velocity. Did have much better accuracy & slightly smaller extreme spread though.
    It don't shock me none at all . . . LilGun has out done H110 in every gun I have tried it with in terms of speed for pressure and clean burn. I can’t tell any real difference in recoil or accuracy in my loads so far. I would nab that 8 pounds if I were you, it wont spoil.
    Andy
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    It don't shock me none at all . . . LilGun has out done H110 in every gun I have tried it with in terms of speed for pressure and clean burn. I canít tell any real difference in recoil or accuracy in my loads so far. I would nab that 8 pounds if I were you, it wont spoil.
    I think I may!!

    It wasn't the Lil-Gun performance that surprised me, it was the fact that the H-110 loads with the mag primers turned in lower velocity than the H-110 loads with standard primers.
    Vance in AK.

    Matthew 6:33
    "But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you."

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