Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 96

Thread: Here's a new forum rule idea...

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    1,461

    Smile Here's a new forum rule idea...

    I'm generally not a rule guy, prefering instead to see personal responsibility, good judgement and character guide our behavior. However, that sadly doesn't always work well. Therefore, if I could add a rule to this site, it would be to stop open posting specific hunting and fishing locations and require such suggestions to be done by PM to one another. Helping each other is a good thing, a great thing...just do it by PM only.

    I honestly don't get it. Why do it? Why would someone openly post on a publicly accessed venue, information about a specific/preferred hunting or fishing location? Such action is extremely destructive of the resource and experience...especially right here where there are so many people who actually get out and do things. I truly think it would be more benign to post maps on the bulletin board at Sportsmen's Warehouse with push-pins showing the best hunting and fishing places than to do it here.

    I've been part of the AOF community for many years, but I think this is my first thread starter on the Hunting Forum, as I spend most of my time on the Shooting and Handloading Forums. Hopefully I'm not the first one to bring this up. Better yet, hopefully those times that I've seen open postings that decribe hunting and fishing locations are extremely rare. Please tell me I'm over-reacting and there really isn't a problem.

    Doc

  2. #2
    Member Diesel Nut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Wasilla, AK
    Posts
    354

    Default

    G' morning Doc,

    It's not the first time this has been mentioned. Most folks here will look at the OP's request and answer via PM unless the hunting area is just so remote and desolate only the truly dedicated will ever make it. There are even those who go so far as to ignore future posts from people who ask about specific locations, as well as those who provide info about them. I think that might be a bit excessive, just as I disagree with a rule against asking about an area. The issue isn't as widespread as I've seen it on other sites and while it sometimes strikes close to home, generally speaking it's just new hunters looking for a place close to the road system where they can get a chance at a moose or black bear.

    It takes time for folks to learn the ins and outs of a forum, and a sticky at the top with suggestions for a good hunting-specific post would probably be of much greater benefit than another rule limiting the questions to be asked. I know there's already the general purpose "how to make a good post" thread, but I didn't read that until I'd already read all the other threads and there was nothing new to look at I imagine others are the same way...

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Yukon Canada
    Posts
    1,289

    Default trick

    first I also dont like more rules. But I would think most hunters would suspect any info on areas they get off the web. I know I would. However that being said it isnt hard to figure out general areas if you look at pictures and read storys posted. I want to hunt deer in AK at some point and have gotten a lot of good info on here about where to go without asking to many questions, isnt that what this site is all about??

  4. #4
    Member Vince's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Fairbanks most the time, Ancorage some of the time,& on the road Kicking Anti's all the time
    Posts
    8,989

    Default

    Doc, i spotted the post that spurred this question..

    in all honesty is there a secret spot in 14C? or only spots you would like to keep competition out of? though i do agree that directions and locations should be done over PM... and we regularly chastise and educate many new members about reveling "the new spot they just found" openly and then the flood of weekender's that wont look for a spot run there for three weeks in a row deplete it and wait the next tip... or get angry when they hear of a new spot and find 400 locals there already... it happens.

    my spots get 1000's of visitors every year. heck F&G game send them there, half of anchorage and the valley bring more with them every season. but they dont know what i do about it.. they don't know all the access points and i dont readily share.. but i can say... yes there are moose and caribou in 20A fishing is OK in some places... and your side by side wont fit across the bridges... and that is why my spots yeald for me.. i know how to use them.. sure others get lucky too... but there really are no secrets

    rules? more like education.
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

    meet on face book here

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    1,461

    Default Yes and no...

    Vince, you're right that a post this morning got me thinking about the whole idea of openly giving specific hunting and fishing locations, but I've actually thought about it many times before this. Do I have secret spots?..."you betcha". Is that why I started this thread?...not really. Change happens, it's part of life, and I reluctantly accept that fact..

    I am concerned with the impact on areas that are openly posted and specifically described. Many years ago I did it myself...I openly posted some specific deer hunting information, giving specific location, air taxi operator, etc. In retrospect I think that was a mistake, and one that I have not repeated. We're sitting here in the privacy of our homes or offices contributing to this forum. I sometimes forget that hundreds, maybe even thousands of people read that information. If even a small fraction of those who read a specific hunting or fishing location actually go to it, then that may represent a dramatic increase in resource utilization at that specific location. In fact, I think it would be a great study by ADFG to poll people at specific locations that are over-utilized and find out how people found out about it.

    I'm not saying don't help people, because that is alot of what we do here. I'm suggesting to exercise good judgement by not openly posting specific hunting and fishing locations...do it by PM only.

    Doc

    BTW congratulations Vince on your award...I just read about it. You and I have swapped rep points in the past, and I'm glad to see you get it this year.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    1,461

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel Nut View Post
    G' morning Doc,

    It's not the first time this has been mentioned. Most folks here will look at the OP's request and answer via PM unless the hunting area is just so remote and desolate only the truly dedicated will ever make it. There are even those who go so far as to ignore future posts from people who ask about specific locations, as well as those who provide info about them. I think that might be a bit excessive, just as I disagree with a rule against asking about an area. The issue isn't as widespread as I've seen it on other sites and while it sometimes strikes close to home, generally speaking it's just new hunters looking for a place close to the road system where they can get a chance at a moose or black bear.

    It takes time for folks to learn the ins and outs of a forum, and a sticky at the top with suggestions for a good hunting-specific post would probably be of much greater benefit than another rule limiting the questions to be asked. I know there's already the general purpose "how to make a good post" thread, but I didn't read that until I'd already read all the other threads and there was nothing new to look at I imagine others are the same way...
    Good morning to you DN. The sticky note idea is a good one, and I appreciate you taking the time to share it.

    Doc

  7. #7
    Member Phish Finder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Searching for more cowbell!
    Posts
    1,945

    Default

    This seems to apply to hunting spots more than fishing spots. Many of the good fishing spots are named.
    ><((((>.`..`.. ><((((>`..`.><((((>

    "People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they
    just like to pee a lot." --Capitol Brewery

  8. #8
    Member Vince's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Fairbanks most the time, Ancorage some of the time,& on the road Kicking Anti's all the time
    Posts
    8,989

    Default

    Doc thanks...

    now this could also be attached with the conversation in shooting about which gun for hard times...

    it was brought that if SHTF, that local resources would immediately be depleted by urban residents and force them to go further afield to sustain them selfs. unfortunately many of those issues can apply to the recreationalist from the same urban sprawl..

    competition for the resource is already in high demand for that area and areas around my homes here as well.. though my subsistance nature is some what diminished as i am in town and getting the essentials is some what easier then they were when i lived on my homestead 100 miles south of town and had to walk 4 miles to the car... or when i am out in the summer 20-50 miles from the road for weeks on end.. resource planning is essential ..

    i do share often ways to hunt and take folks out to areas they have not been two. share access to a few for areas with limited access and knowing that is the only time they are getting in there for THAT one tag.. for example the DC87 caribou in 20A.. they draw that tag they are only getting in by ATV in ONE spot.. and that one spot is such that you go in and come out due to the restrictions of the surrounding area.. and a person REALLLLY has to want to go there... but they wont be headed back there to compete with any one else as that area.. wont allow it.. have tag will travel till you get home...

    it is important when discussing areas... that many folks from the urban point of view...look at a map and see... OPEN RANGE...

    it is very important to discuss the local population that already lives and recreates there.... consider this.. if the ENTIRE town of Healy.. +/- 500 in the winter converged on 2 rivers in the valley during king or silver season.. chances are that those water sheds would be shut down soon after.. now toss in cantwell, Anderson, clear.. another 1000 people... jumping on your favorite stream all at ones... in short that is what happens each year for them.. during hunting season.. lake Louise, Glenallen, copper center, TOK.. all those place folks.. GO TOO>

    1500-2000 new residents all looking for a new spot many of whom had NO IDEA others lived there to begin with...

    i am not saying to stop or that local, residents have priority.. i share may camp and camp sites every year with folks ... i am just saying that when discussing access, PMing folks, or planning that the effect of the mass rush has on the local area already and that educating folks about proper disclosure is as important as the experience it's self....

    until this state allows access into more areas congestion will be an issue. i do agree things should not be openly pointed out, though i feel that educating new hunters is a mandate for us all to survive.. the recreationist and the subsistance hunters may never see eye to eye..but cooperation is essential...
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

    meet on face book here

  9. #9

    Default

    Doc,

    I realize what you are saying and sure it can get frusterating at times. However, how would you expect something like this to be moderated. For example if someone mentioned they went hunting up in Hatchers Pass for some that would be too much of a description for fear of given up their honey hole. While others would rather see an exact trail head locale to start from. I think this would be very difficult to effectively and fairly moderate.

    While I personally think that precise locales should be shared via PM, I fear that such a rule would choke other good info that could be shared openly. Suddenly someone can't share a pic of their catch/kill because another member fears that others will recognize where it was caught or killed and the area will become over run with people. This rule seems like it would simply be too subjective.
    Last edited by Alaska_Lanche; 01-04-2010 at 05:49.

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    1,461

    Default

    AK Lanche you're being too kind, but thanks, sir.

    I don't think that a rule such as this would be too difficult to effectively and fairly moderate at all...I think it would be a total nightmare and quite impossible to moderate or regulate to the satisfaction of even a minority of the forum membership. As a new rule, it's a bad idea...but what about the concept? Periodic, general announcements that encourage and educate participants to PM rather than openly post specific hunting and fishing locations wouldn't be that hard to do would it? I would find it to be a very responsible act for a community such as this.

    Doc

  11. #11
    Member AKHunterNP's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    North Pole
    Posts
    902

    Default

    I don't see how a rule like that would work. There is a whole thread basically dedicated to that on the bowhunting forum for the Dalton. People post updates on that thread all the time about where the bou are. I know the Dalton is a long road but people put specifics like north or south of the pass, Toolik, or finger. Does that mean that if someone posts that the bou are gathered at Toolik that hundreds of people run up there the next day? I don't think so. Like said before, depending on the location you have to be pretty dedicated to get to some of these spots. I don't know many people who would give up there honey hole on a forum like this. I'm not saying that I agree with posting that type of info on here openly, I just think it would be hard to enforce that.
    "...arms like laws discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe...Horrid mischief would ensue were the good deprived of the use of them." -Thomas Paine

  12. #12
    New member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    I'm generally not a rule guy, prefering instead to see personal responsibility, good judgement and character guide our behavior. However, that sadly doesn't always work well. Therefore, if I could add a rule to this site, it would be to stop open posting specific hunting and fishing locations and require such suggestions to be done by PM to one another. Helping each other is a good thing, a great thing...just do it by PM only.

    I honestly don't get it. Why do it? Why would someone openly post on a publicly accessed venue, information about a specific/preferred hunting or fishing location? Such action is extremely destructive of the resource and experience...especially right here where there are so many people who actually get out and do things. I truly think it would be more benign to post maps on the bulletin board at Sportsmen's Warehouse with push-pins showing the best hunting and fishing places than to do it here.

    I've been part of the AOF community for many years, but I think this is my first thread starter on the Hunting Forum, as I spend most of my time on the Shooting and Handloading Forums. Hopefully I'm not the first one to bring this up. Better yet, hopefully those times that I've seen open postings that decribe hunting and fishing locations are extremely rare. Please tell me I'm over-reacting and there really isn't a problem.

    Doc
    Hey Doc, that's a good point. I've been a member for a couple years, but haven't posted often. I'm in southern california so I just check in to get in touch with conditions before I head out.

    I am however a member of a southern california based forums and we have these debates constantly. There is definitely an effect when someone posts up positive or negative info on a specific spot. When people find out a spot is producing and see pics, they flock to it. On the other hand, if you moderate specific info or pictures that give away a location, the content begins to have less value to the users.

    I think implementing official rules to remove specific information would both be administratively infeasible and end up devaluing the content.

    The compromise many have made on the california website I belong to is to post reports with pictures and information, but not mention the exact spot, rather post only a general location. This allows for people to share while not giving up their exact spots. There's also an effort to educate everyone on how posting information publicly can affect the resource so everyone is on the same page and aware of how to post without giving up too much info.

    In the end, I feel like it's more about educating the users rather than creating rules against sharing. Of course just my 2 cents

    I like this forum and I really appreciate the info I've gotten here!

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    1,461

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JMS View Post
    Hey Doc, that's a good point. I've been a member for a couple years, but haven't posted often. I'm in southern california so I just check in to get in touch with conditions before I head out.

    I am however a member of a southern california based forums and we have these debates constantly. There is definitely an effect when someone posts up positive or negative info on a specific spot. When people find out a spot is producing and see pics, they flock to it. On the other hand, if you moderate specific info or pictures that give away a location, the content begins to have less value to the users.

    I think implementing official rules to remove specific information would both be administratively infeasible and end up devaluing the content.

    The compromise many have made on the california website I belong to is to post reports with pictures and information, but not mention the exact spot, rather post only a general location. This allows for people to share while not giving up their exact spots. There's also an effort to educate everyone on how posting information publicly can affect the resource so everyone is on the same page and aware of how to post without giving up too much info.

    In the end, I feel like it's more about educating the users rather than creating rules against sharing. Of course just my 2 cents

    I like this forum and I really appreciate the info I've gotten here!
    Thanks for piping-in...I like your examples.

    Doc

  14. #14
    Member bilbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Mayer, Arizona, United States
    Posts
    133

    Default

    as a new member, I have been a lurker with few posts.
    perhaps my remarks here will hurt my rep in the future. I hope not.
    Yet, I have enjoyed hundreds of posts re hunting spots, preparation advice and so much more right here on this forum.
    I have been a hunter for over 40 years. I have killed many nice deer, antelope, ducks, geese, elk, pigeons, grouse, pheasant,snakes and even a couple bears.
    I have given specific directions hundreds of times....and refrained hundreds of times.
    Is this a secret society?
    I would advise anyone who is afraid of tipping off others to their own little honeyholes to just refrain from posting.
    WHO knows where the shadow lurks...eh?
    SSSHHHH...maybe someone is listening even now?
    Sarcasm aside, I would think if this paranoia is wellfounded, we would have seen and heard a lot of negative incidents already.

  15. #15
    Member Vince's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Fairbanks most the time, Ancorage some of the time,& on the road Kicking Anti's all the time
    Posts
    8,989

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bilbo View Post
    as a new member, I have been a lurker with few posts.
    perhaps my remarks here will hurt my rep in the future. I hope not.
    Yet, I have enjoyed hundreds of posts re hunting spots, preparation advice and so much more right here on this forum.
    I have been a hunter for over 40 years. I have killed many nice deer, antelope, ducks, geese, elk, pigeons, grouse, pheasant,snakes and even a couple bears.
    I have given specific directions hundreds of times....and refrained hundreds of times.
    Is this a secret society?
    I would advise anyone who is afraid of tipping off others to their own little honeyholes to just refrain from posting.
    WHO knows where the shadow lurks...eh?
    SSSHHHH...maybe someone is listening even now?
    Sarcasm aside, I would think if this paranoia is wellfounded, we would have seen and heard a lot of negative incidents already.
    bilbo... there have been many instances in the past. and fortunately this forum has a wide enough base of regular users that when things start to sour, they all step up and remind many of the newer folks.. sometimes it gets ...less polite ... then need be. but the point is often made here every few months...

    Docs suggestion about and announcement, actually comes in threads such as this one.. regularly..

    there are still a few members that openly post just for the fun of it. but those locations are regular haunts of MANY MANY MANY people already..

    often as not when gps coordinates are given... Mickey D's in Wasilla gets a rush of customers or Pizza hut .

    these discussions though all with the same theme from time to time.. are monotonous to some... but reinforce the general conscientious of the forum as a whole...
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

    meet on face book here

  16. #16

    Thumbs down

    This is the day of the internet. It was developed to share information, to the masses. There are now millions and millions of people and to think anyone of us should have a place to ourselves is foolish. The world is too small to expect it. When it happens you shoud cherish it, but not at the risk of denying others the same experience. Sharing your favorite fishing hole or hunting spot is no different than sharing your favorite store or cafe. Bottom line, everyone needs to accept the fact that their piece of the pie is smaller than it used to be and getting smaller every day. There is no room in the world for greed and selfishness. I openly share what I know about an area and honestly don't care that some might get peeved over it. To think that locations should be censored out, is well....ludicrous.

    PS: Doc how do you feel about people that write and sell books and hunts giving out specific locations and all the help to get it done? At least here the info is free. Does it make it OK if you have to pay for it? IF so, maybe some of the posters could ask for payment, before revealing their secrets.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

  17. #17
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Eagle River, AK
    Posts
    13,393

    Default

    Res - I think the point that some folks are making here is that it's not about protecting a private spot, but sometimes it is about protecting the resource. Some areas and game populations can only handle so much pressure if they are to remain biologically productive. Yes, that is what harvest limits, size restrictions, and seasons are for, but even with those protections in place localized overharvest can occur if too many folks converge on a biologically sensitive area.

  18. #18

    Default

    Any area long on fish and game should not be considered "biologically sensitive", unless one is concerned about making tracks in the tundra. But then those same people would likely be opposed to fly in hunters as well. The trailheads and landing strips are on the maps, but a lot of the niche groups of animals need to be targeted so as to spread out the kill ratio. The arguements are simply to far reaching for them to have any valid substance. Case in point is the Forty Mile Caribou, F&G ain't gonna let it get out of control. A simple look at all the new permit hunts is clear evidence that F&G has a handle on the sensitive areas. It is greed and greed alone that makes people want to keep secrets. Again, there are just too many people wanting to hunt, to even expect keeping a place all to ourselves. People want to kill animals and the only way they will be able to do it, is to know where the animals are and how to get to them.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

  19. #19
    Member martentrapper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Fairbanks, Ak.
    Posts
    4,191

    Default

    So Doc, is what your saying is...........it's Ok for you to hunt somewhere, but not OK for others? Good hunting spots are for the priviledged few?
    Brian, how do we decide who gets to hunt these "sensitive" areas.
    Am I hearing a bit of the "Kings Deer" syndrome?
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
    I have less friends now!!

  20. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Yukon Canada
    Posts
    1,289

    Default spots

    We all have our favorite spots, and not speaking for anyone but myself, but why in the world would I tell everyone?? Some close friends for sure, altho I have a couple good moose spots only I go.
    I cant understand why anyone would want to broadcast their spots down to the GPS coordinates on here, but to me whats worse is those who want to stop them! More rules!! Bigger Govt!! Cant you guys do anything on your own?? If you dont want to share your spots dont, if you dont agree with those who do dont read their posts. Why make the rest of us conform to your ideas with a new rule!

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •