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Thread: Reloading Question

  1. #1

    Default Reloading Question

    If you neck size your brass only can you do different calibers with the same neck sizer die? Example: 7mm Rem.Mag, 280, 7-30 Waters, 7mm STW, as all of these are 7mm .284 diameter will one neck sizer work for all or do you need one for each? Another would be 6mm, and 243 Win. Two neck sizer dies or would one do both? I know that the brass needs to be fired from the gun you are going to neck size for. I have been full length resizing all my brass for years but with components getting harder to get I think I will try to stretch them out a little farther. I have been to five reloading stores to get Hornady 100gr. 6mm and have not found them yet. Two years ago all these stores would of had them. The brass on the shelfs you could of carried out in your hand. I thought the shortages were about over but now I am not sure.

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    I guess, the answer would be, "Sometimes", and perhaps rarely.

    I usta use the Lyman 310 tools, that neck-sized only, and each loading operation was a separate one. With the right combination of dies I could do marvelous things.

    I had dies for 280 Rem., and was able to load for 7x57 also.

    I had dies for 30-30 and could load for both 308, 30-06, and no doubt, 300 Savage.

    It was unlikely that I would have been able to load for 7mm Rem. Mag. because the case would be too big for all the different guides I had to put in the handles.

    Some of these dies will work for special purposes in a bench press using the adapters to make them fit.

    Considering regular Rifle Die sets, I'm speculating.

    A Neck sizing die for 7mm Mag. may, or may not, be too long for a 280 or 7x57.

    One for 280 or 7x57 may not be large enough in diameter for the Mag. case.

    Plus, there could be case alignment issues to consider.

    If you know what you're doing, you might try using a neck sizing die you have on hand for another cartridge, but I think the bottom line is that you couldn't count on it, and each case is different.

    I would need, at least an educated guess, to justify risking a lotta money on the idea.

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    Member Big Al's Avatar
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    You two fellows bring up and interesting question. Neck size only to what dia? Lets make this as clear as possible. It is the sized case with a bullet seated and te total clearance you need to know about. First Thing first, let me tell you if you are using the same brass fired in the same rifle, you only need partial neck sizing not full length.

    You have to know several thing before you start. Number what is the outside diameter of my neck in the chamber area? How do I get that reading? What neck sizing diameter will give me the .002 to .003 clearance I will need for my chamber? The answer is you must own and know how to use a .001 to one inch micrometer. You will need to do a chamber cast using cerrosafe. Cerrosafe is bought from Brownells. It is available on line and it can be reused forever. You don't need much and I have gotten by for decades with as little as half of a pound.

    Next you need to know that other option are available is bushing that fits inside a die body to do your neck sizing only operation. One die body for all different size bushings.

    The major suppliers for these bushings is Wilson, Redding there are a great many suppliers that sell these neck sizing bushings. You will need a separate die to punch out dead primers. The cheap as dirt Lee reloading press will work just fine, you will need a shell holder if you go this way. I can put you on links that will sell you what you will need. With a cheap reloading press it's cheaper just to full length size your brass and it would save you a lot of head scratching.
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    Would like to add that at some point you will have to knock the shoulder back on the cases so they will chamber and then you will need the right die. So might as well buy them in the beginning and get it over with.
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    Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowwolfe View Post
    Would like to add that at some point you will have to knock the shoulder back on the cases so they will chamber and then you will need the right die. So might as well buy them in the beginning and get it over with.


    What you refer to is a shoulder bump die or a full length die. There is different thinking along those lines and many BR shooters feel that the requirement is for a body die that reduces the dia back towards the base.

    This can only be determined by actual measurement of the base to shoulder length. The only effective tool I know for this that handles all different cartridges is the tooling sold by Larry Willis. The best die or at least the one I like the best is not cheap and for the guy that wants to just get by, it's out of the price range of most shooters.

    However you need to know that if the proper preparations for the cases seldom is this beyond the life of the brass. I'm talking about from 15 to 20 loads. Proper annealing techniques is beyond what most shooter want to get into which of course increase the life of the brass and has the potential of giving more uniform accuracy. But the largest number of rifles do not need this attention to accuracy and would be hard pressed to tell the difference.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

  6. #6

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    I have neck sized new 300 RUM brass with a 300 WSM Neck sizer in order to clean up and round the necks for neck turning so I could seat a bullet to measure for bushings for the RUM. I also used the WSM seater to seat the bullet in the RUM.

    What I think is really cool is you can use a bushing sizer (neck or FL) to size brass with differnet cal that use the same case. i.e., 25-06, 270 Win, 30-06 or the WSM's or Rums, or Dakotas, etc. They can also be used for simple wildcats like the 6.5-WSM or maybe a 6-.06.

  7. #7

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    I am sorry I may of lead you astray. I already have full length resizing dies for all the calibers I shoot. A friend of mine was wanting to try some reloads in a 7mm-08. I already have dies in 7-30 Waters, 7mm Rem. Mag., and 7mm STW, but do not have 7mm-08. I was wanting to buy a neck sizing die that would neck size all 7mm (.284) cases in case another 7mm come up that I wanted to try insted of buying a set of dies for each. Another friend has a 7mm lazzarronie (I have no idea how to spell this) that he wants to try some reloads in and if they like the way they shoot they will buy there own equipment. I also have 6mm Rem., 243 Win. dies and 223, and 22-250 dies. If such a thing existed I could buy three neck sizing sets in 22 cal., 24cal.,and 28cal. and I would be able to cover a lot of different cartridges. Anything I own and shoot I will buy a set of dies for each. Thanks for all the input you have posted and if any of you can answer any of my questions I thank you in advance.

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    I don't think they make what your looking for. But with full lenght dies you can neck size 95% of the neck while only slightly sizing the case. Just set the sizer die short so it doesn't quite get to the shoulder. Annealing the neck is very simple if you have a way to melt a couple of pounds of lead ( camp stove and a steel or cast pot). Just dip the neck in melted lead for 2 to 3 seconds and drop in water. Coat neck in graphite to prevent lead sticking. Unless loaded to max, cases should last a long time. They must be full length sized every few times to set shoulder back.

  9. #9

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    I think a Lee collet die would do what you want. They are actually a good option for neck sizing.

    http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com...e-collet-dies/

    They do much less damage to the case than most conventional dies, for instance RCBS.

    [RANT]Take a .270 die and remove the expander assembly and run a case in then mic the neck i.d. It will most likely hold a .243 bullet. Now after the neck is crushed far smaller than need be the expander ball is drug back through it and actually stretches the entire case, which is why you have to crush the shoulder back too far to start with.[RANT]
    It doesn't matter what you miss them with.

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    Default All sorts of tricks

    If you watch chamber dimensions you can do all sorts of things with dies and save a bunch of money.

    For instance I have small base .30-06 dies that I used on .270 and .25-06 cases that won't chamber due to to an enlarged base. I've did the same thing with my .458 dies for other magnum calibers. I recently had some .375 H&H rounds that chambered too tightly but a quick trip through the .458 die solved the problem.

    I've been using .41 Mag pistol dies to neck resize cases for my .40 / 338 wildcat. At some point I may spring for dies but at over $100 a set I'm not going to plunk down the cash until I decide if I like the rifle that much.

    I made some 8mm Roth Styer ammo once but don't recall how I did it - but is shot O.K. before I traded the gun off for a nice Remington rolling block.

    You can do most anything by throwing enough money at it. Part of the fun is reloading for me is creating safe shootable ammunition without buying anything else.
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    rbuck351:
    I've never annealed cases. I might just try the method you mentioned. It's the simplest one I've heard about.

    IME, using a FL die to Neck Size (Sometimes called PFL) will not always work. Apparently, it depends of the particulars, like how straight the case design, the die and chamber dimensions, etc.

    What can happen is by the time the neck is nearly sized, the shoulder gets squeezed enough to cause the shoulder to move forward, (because the brass hasta go somewhere) increasing the shoulder length, even to the extent of making it hard, and sometimes impossible to chamber.

    The only solution is to go ahead and FL resize the case, pushing the shoulder back again.

    For some cartridges, it's much better to use a Neck Sizing die, for sizing only the neck.

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    Yep. A neck sizing die is best but so far I've had good luck with PFL sizing.

  13. #13

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    Rbuck351 you brought up a interesting toppic. Annealing cases. When do you need to do this, and how often do you do this. What signs do you look for to tell you that you need to anneal your cases. How much of the case do you need to dip in the lead, just the neck or neck and shoulder? What do you anneal cases for,what benifit do you get from annealing your cases. I have never heard of using molten lead to anneal cases before this sounds interesting. Rbuck351 thanks for that post, it could help me in the future. I have loaded for years and never annealed any of my cases. That could be a small piece of the puzzle to better shooting. Thanks!

  14. #14

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    This is the best method for home annealing I have seen or read about yet. There are three videos in this link. Enjoy...

    http://www.longrangehunting.com/foru...g-cases-39987/

    If you dont do it right, you will do more damage than good.

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    http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.htmlHornaday makes a simple to use kit for annealing (at least they did) a power drill and torch is all that you need to do the rest. Instruction are in the box.


    This will help of the how to and the why anneal.
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    This is all very discouraging.

    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  17. #17

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    Thanks for all the information guys. I done a search on google on case anealing and it showed several videos on you tube. It also showed two or three anealing machines being used. I had never heard of one of these.

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    Back to the OP, yes that us true... Hornady makes dies that are multicaliber. I ordered a 35 Whelen neck sizing die from midway, and got a universal .35 cal neck sizing die. Works just fine.

    Here's a link to an example product on midway

    http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...tnumber=116484

    As far as annealing, I've never needed more than a 10" socket extension, a couple different sizes of deep well sockets (for .223, .308. 06, etc), a propane torch, and a bowl of water. Got maybe $30 wrapped up in my kit.

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