View Poll Results: imr4227 or w296 in the 44mag rifle/handgun

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  • w296

    13 72.22%
  • imr4227

    5 27.78%
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Thread: imr4227 OR w296 in 44mag

  1. #1
    Member atvalaska's Avatar
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    Post imr4227 OR w296 in 44mag

    one for rifle? one for handgun? which one do u like? on another note.......I Hate blue dot as it makes a ..LOUD crack/sound compared to the others I've tried,i can use imr4227 to get the job done without the BS..... and the flame from the handgun at nite is cool!
    WHEN IN DOUBT> THROTTLE OUT.......

  2. #2
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Default

    how come the switch up? i been Blazing away with 240 gn cast and 8 gn unique in both the rifle and the pistola... thanks to Snyd
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  3. #3
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    Default I gather, that.....

    Unique is economical.

    4227 is more better for heavy bullet loads.

    H110 or W296, has some characteristics that some might consider disadvantages, but it remains popular.

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  4. #4
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    296 for hunting and stiff loads. Pretty much will use anything else for practice at the range and plinking.
    Tennessee

  5. #5
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    I've only used W296 for .44mag and .454Casull. There may be better options out there...probably are more temperature tolerant alternatives. I've just not had a reason to try other powders...W296 works for me.

    Doc

  6. #6
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    I dumped W296/H110 when I tried LilGun, it's just all around better! Never used 4227 so have no opinion on that one.
    Andy
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  7. #7

    Default I'd prefer

    2400 to 4227 myself, from my own experiences. Some don't like 2400 because of the residue, but it works very well.

  8. #8
    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    how come the switch up? i been Blazing away with 240 gn cast and 8 gn unique in both the rifle and the pistola... thanks to Snyd
    8 grains of unique will push it down the barrel of a rifle?

    Tim

  9. #9
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    Default Steel

    I've been playing with the Alliance Steel powder for intemediate loads between Unique and 296 loading levels.

    Seems to work well so far.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by tccak71 View Post
    8 grains of unique will push it down the barrel of a rifle?

    Tim
    Yes Unique or Bullseye will work even in a rifle and load a heck of a lot of rounds per pound of powder. There is enough residual gas expansion to push the bullet out a rifle on any round that I would trust to push it out of a revolver thatís wasting gas at the cylinder gap.

    However you will never get near top velocity from such fast powders in any large cartridge since they are just too fast. The pressure spikes almost instantly with such a fast powder and then falls off too fast for optimal effect in a larger case like 44mag. They are great for light plinking loads in big caliber mags but best suited for smaller capacity cases like .25 to .45 autos. 2400 is another thatís too fast for best velocity in 44mag and up however it is a great pick for low to mid range velocity loads in big mags. If you want best velocity from a 44mag and larger round we need a slower burn rate like H110/W296 or LilGun so pressure spike takes place more toward the muzzle end of the bullets trip.
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  11. #11

    Default Sorry AD

    but I have to strongly disagree with what you said about 2400 for full house .44 mag loads. I've been using it for years firing 240-325gr. cast and cast g.c. bullets and I get excellent velocities without maxing out pressures. You can get close to 1400 fps safely with 250 gr. bullets, almost 1300 fps with 300 gr. and over 1325 with 325gr. cast bullets. Don't know about you, but I consider these major velocities. I also like Lil Gun and 296/H110 but 2400 works just fine.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mauserboy View Post
    but I have to strongly disagree with what you said about 2400 for full house .44 mag loads. I've been using it for years firing 240-325gr. cast and cast g.c. bullets and I get excellent velocities without maxing out pressures. You can get close to 1400 fps safely with 250 gr. bullets, almost 1300 fps with 300 gr. and over 1325 with 325gr. cast bullets. Don't know about you, but I consider these major velocities. I also like Lil Gun and 296/H110 but 2400 works just fine.
    I read AD saying that 2400 is not the best when seeking maximum velocity and I agree with him. IME and apparently in AD's as well, 2400 is a great powder for the 44 Magnum, but it does not produce the highest velocities, or at least it does not produce H110 velocities.

    2400 is another thatís too fast for best velocity in 44mag and up however it is a great pick for low to mid range velocity loads in big mags. If you want best velocity from a 44mag and larger round we need a slower burn rate like H110/W296 or LilGun
    I used a lot of 2400 years ago for the 44 Magnum, but IME H110 is more than 100 fps faster with bullets over 240 grains than 2400 and I have gotten better and more consistent performance with H110 than 2400. Whether 100 fps additional velocity is significant is something every man must decide for himself, but I do not think you can argue with the performance difference in the two powders.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Cor15:19 View Post
    I read AD saying that 2400 is not the best when seeking maximum velocity and I agree with him. IME and apparently in AD's as well, 2400 is a great powder for the 44 Magnum, but it does not produce the highest velocities, or at least it does not produce H110 velocities.

    I used a lot of 2400 years ago for the 44 Magnum, but IME H110 is more than 100 fps faster with bullets over 240 grains than 2400 and I have gotten better and more consistent performance with H110 than 2400. Whether 100 fps additional velocity is significant is something every man must decide for himself, but I do not think you can argue with the performance difference in the two powders.
    Yup, what he said. I have not loaded 44mag in years but in 45lc I get about 200fps more from LilGun with no pressure sign than I can get from 2400 with sticky cases. Not saying 2400 is a bad powder by any means, nor am I saying Unique and Bulseye are bad powders . . . I use a bunch of all three. Just saying in a big bore mag (44mag and up) they will not give the top velocity that H110/W298 and LilGun will. In very short barrels the difference may not be enough to wink about, but in 4Ē or more 2400 is at a disadvantage if youíre looking for speed.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    However you will never get near top velocity from such fast powders in any large cartridge since they are just too fast.
    mauserboy I think this may be what you’re talking about?
    I was talking about Unique and Bullseye here not 2400 since you can get close with the (relatively) much slower 2400.
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  15. #15

    Default AD wrote this:

    "2400 is another thatís too fast for best velocity in 44mag and up however it is a great pick for low to mid range velocity loads in big mags." That is what I responded to. he did not say maximum velocities, he said best velocities. That doesn't necessarily mean the last 50 fps you can wring out of a cartridge especially with a heavy for caliber bullet. 2400 will easily push a .44 slug well beyond a mid-range laod. Remember, 2400 was what E.K. used in his favorite hot .44 SPL and .44 mag 250 grain loads. For terminal performance, 100 fps doesn't make any difference in the .44 mag past a certain velocity, which 2400 in .44 mag exceeds.
    I use Lil gun a lot and used H110 and 296 also, especially with jacketed bullets, though I now use hardcast plain base & G.C. bullets. I didn't say that you couldn't get top speed from them. I am saying that 2400 works just fine also.

  16. #16
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    By "best velocity" I meant the powder that will give the fastest fps or "best" fps. Looks like what I call "best velocity" you are calling "top velocity" and 2400 can come close but gets no cigar in today’s lineup of powders when it comes to the highest velocity. In 44mag 2400 can get close to LilGun, H110/W296 but as you move into bigger magnums like 454/460/500s the 2400 starts getting left farther and farther behind in best/top/fastest velocity. 2400 may well be the best all round powder for 44mag but it just is not the best powder for getting the highest velocity today and I don’t see how that can be disputed since the numbers are what they are.
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  17. #17

    Default You're correct

    in saying that 2400 is not as good for larger, heavier calibers than .44 mag. I never disputed that. I used to try and wring the last possible fps out of the cartridges I loaded for. A few cartridges demand that for "best" accuracy", but I found, obviously enough that practice also usually meant accelerated wear on my firearms. I liken the practice to doing the maximum speed limit on the highways, plus 5-10 mph more. You CAN do it, but traveling slightly slower will still get you where you want to go. In target shooting/plinking, velocity doesn't mean diddly, unless necessary for best accuracy. In hunting, it is the same to me. Pushing a .220 Swift at 4000 fps or 3850 usually results in the same outcome but it may lengthen your barrel life by a definite amount. Pushing a heavy .44 mag bullet, using H110 or 296 to their max velocities or 2400 at its "best" velocities will result in the same way.

  18. #18
    Member atvalaska's Avatar
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    Post here are some real numbers from yesterday 0 degs

    265 gr jsp bullets, c-graph set 20' from me..........rifle brownig-92, 20" barrel: 21gr imr4227 got 1448fps ........21.5gr of w296 got 1548fps (3 shot avg's) the handgun a 7.5 r-blk hawk imr4227 got 1172fps.........1296fps with w296..This was my 1st date w296 what i did notice is the "More felt" recoil with the 296,and little burnt balls of powder in the shell case/ seems as if it don't burn as clean ..as 4227..that would be my guess... "THE grains of powder were a little differnt" as i used 4 differnt books,and made the loads about 9/10% lower than max...i used a scale and trickler so the loads were the same...what u think????...Today I'm going to shoot some loads of 270gr I made last nite 21.2gr -in each type powder- cause that's what my powder measure(rcbs) would toss "right" at each pull of the handle ...more numbers to come...
    WHEN IN DOUBT> THROTTLE OUT.......

  19. #19
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    W396/H110 is a very dirty powder and that was one of the main reasons I switched to LilGun. It was only after I played a bit with LilGun that I realized that I was getting the same speeds with less pressure and a much cleaner gun. I will need to try out some 4227 now and see what it does for me.
    Andy
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  20. #20
    Member atvalaska's Avatar
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    Post here is my 270gr speer gdsp info

    10 deg above out no wind /same as before/ same guns .....rifle imr4227 avg 1390fps......w269 avg 1511. Pistol, imr4227 1103fps and w296 got 1227fps. Again recoil w/296 was a bit more than the 4227....but the cases were dirter/ like last set of rounds...but there was some "burn back" with the 296 (where the case looks like the "fire" came back on the outside of the case around a 1/16th to 3/32 or so) will now go into working up a load from here and put them on paper targets to see where i should go from here.. i still am lik'in my imr4227 powder that i 1st used in these guns over 20 years ago...
    WHEN IN DOUBT> THROTTLE OUT.......

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