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Thread: Norma Powder

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    Default Norma Powder

    Ive been playing with some 204 (which is not ideal for my bullet weight but is OK) and it seems to me that its time to figure out a way to get some Norma stuff up here.

    My thought would be to get a load and try to do it at dealer cost plus freight. Minimum would be five pounds, mix and match. And yeah, I would make a buck since I'll buy at distrib cost

    Thoughts?
    http://www.norma.cc/sortimentladd.asp?doc=Sort&Lang=2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildalaska View Post
    Ive been playing with some 204 (which is not ideal for my bullet weight but is OK) and it seems to me that its time to figure out a way to get some Norma stuff up here.

    My thought would be to get a load and try to do it at dealer cost plus freight. Minimum would be five pounds, mix and match. And yeah, I would make a buck since I'll buy at distrib cost

    Thoughts?
    http://www.norma.cc/sortimentladd.asp?doc=Sort&Lang=2
    Ken it is my understanding that N204 is exactly the same powder as RL 19. Made at the same facility, to the same specifications and placed in different canisters. Is that not the case?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Cor15:19 View Post
    Ken it is my understanding that N204 is exactly the same powder as RL 19. Made at the same facility, to the same specifications and placed in different canisters. Is that not the case?

    Ya know, I'll admit to rare ignorance on that, but I'll sure research it

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    I have heard the same thing regarding RL 25 and Norma MRP?

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    I read RL22 is MRP...!?! and H414 is WW760

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    Quote Originally Posted by shphtr View Post
    I have heard the same thing regarding RL 25 and Norma MRP?
    My understanding is this:

    RL 15 is exactly the same as N203.

    RL 19 is exactly the same as N204.

    RL 22 is exactly the same as MRP.

    Produced at the same facilities and made to the same specs, but packaged differently. Obviously there would still be the usual and normal lot to lot variation common in all powder manufacturing.

    I cannot verify these claims from Norma (I am hoping Ken will) and have not received a response from Alliant. I've never owned a canister of N203 or N204 so I have nothing to report concerning them. I can say that MRP looks and performs like RL 22. I've noticed that the charge weights and velocities comparing the two (MRP & RL 22) are as similar as two different lots of the same type of powder (i.e. different lots of H4831).

    I may be misinformed and would love to hear this verified or debunked from the horse's mouth.

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    Kinda like Milwaukees best and Miller lite??
    Last edited by hunt_ak; 12-07-2009 at 22:09.

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    So far my research indicates they are similar, but not EXACTLY the same...

    Like see this

    http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com...now-available/

    If you look at the data from both companies, it seems that there are differences in max loads.

    Sort of like the differences between IMR and Hodgon

    Also see this burning chart
    http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by hunt_ak View Post
    Kinda like Milwaukees best and Miller lite??
    More like budweiser and heineken.

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    Could be but the aforementioned come from the same vat....true story....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildalaska View Post
    So far my research indicates they are similar, but not EXACTLY the same...

    Like see this

    http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com...now-available/

    If you look at the data from both companies, it seems that there are differences in max loads.

    Sort of like the differences between IMR and Hodgon

    Also see this burning chart
    http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html

    From the
    Norma website:

    http://www.norma.cc/content.asp?Typ=...e=Norma+Powder

    Norma 203-B

    Specifications differ slightly from the previous 203 powder. A flexible powder that is useful from .22-250 to .358 Norma Mag. Very suitable for 6 mm Norma BR and .308 Win. Loaded with heavier bullets.

    From this it is clear that Norma 203 is a different powder from Norma 203-B and therefore Norma 203-B is different from RL 15.

    I've two sources in the house somewhere that lists powder recommendations that make this claim concerning N203, N204 & MRP relationship with RL 15,19 & 22. I can only put my fingers upon one of them right now.

    Any Shot You Want: The A-Square Handloading and Rifle Manual ISBN:0-9643683-1-5 1996 Pages 274-275.

    "For our European and African friends, who may have difficulty locating the various powders, there is an authorized substitution. Reloader-22 is exactly the thing as Norma-MRP. Reloader-19 is exactly the same thing as Norma-204. Reloader 15 is exactly the same thing as Norma-203. These powders come from exactly the same plant ans are made at exactly the same time. The powder from that plant is simply shipped to a different place and is put into a different consumer pack."

    My other source repeats the claim of these Norma powders and adds that H110/W296, H414/W760 are respectively the same.

    My question to you Ken is can you find out if that is true from either Norma or Alliant. Like you, I've checked as many reloading manuals as I can and it seems plausible from the information I find in the manuals. In the manuals the maximum charge weights are very similar as are maximum velocity. Normally in the manuals there is no more variation between the Norma and Reloader powder than you would expect between Lot xxxxx1 and Lot xxxxx2 of H4831 IME.

    I have not been able to get a response from Norma or Alliant with repeated emails. IMO if it were not true they would outright deny it, but silence leads me to believe that they are covering their tails and simply offer no comment for possible issues of liability. However my opinion is not fact and I would really like to know the facts in this instance.

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    My question to you Ken is can you find out if that is true from either Norma or Alliant. Like you, I've checked as many reloading manuals as I can and it seems plausible from the information I find in the manuals. In the manuals the maximum charge weights are very similar as are maximum velocity. Normally in the manuals there is no more variation between the Norma and Reloader powder than you would expect between Lot xxxxx1 and Lot xxxxx2 of H4831 IME.
    Well hell, Im gonna ask down at the Shot Show

    I will disagree with you slightly as I think the variance is more significant that lot to lot comparisons..again I think its more like the difference between H4350 and IMR 4350.

    Guess I will load some RL19 and some 204 in the 6.5x55 123gr scenar to test. Same bullet, same case, same primer, same wieght etc. Too cold to chrony but I can at least see group size and POA

    Just as an aside, years ago I duplicated the velocity of the Hirtenberger 308 185 grain match load using RL15. The powder used in that match load was Bofors 15. I think the load I used was within a grain or two of the factory load.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildalaska View Post
    Well hell, Im gonna ask down at the Shot Show

    Guess I will load some RL19 and some 204 in the 6.5x55 123gr scenar to test. Same bullet, same case, same primer, same wieght etc. Too cold to chrony but I can at least see group size and POA
    I look forward to the report Ken and any information you get from the Horse's mouth as well. Thanks for your efforts.

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    Default Burning rates

    Check out the burning rate chart on the the VihtaVuori web site: http://www.lapua.com/fileadmin/user_...oguide2009.pdf

    They show a "B" version of 203 and a second version of MRP - both are close to to other powders as mention previously.

    I hadn't seen this chart before - it is the best and most up to date one I've seen. Wish it included some of the older powders but I guess that is too much to ask!
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