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Thread: for your review let the lynching begin GrizzaBear draft 2009

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Default for your review let the lynching begin GrizzaBear draft 2009

    1. Alaska Administrative Code Number 5 AAC
    85.020
    Regulation Book Page No.
    94

    2. What is the problem you would like the Board to address? Extend Grizzly bear season for unit 20A, 20C due to population increase since last survey of 1995 and summer 2009 fire seasons creating travel corridors through populated areas.

    3. What will happen if this problem is not solved?
    · Grizzly bear populations are currently on a rise with in unit 20. There has been no population surveys completed on unit 20 bears since 1995, and the current numbers of bears are widely unknown with in this region. However in the last few years alone, the recorded harvest data has seen a substantial increase in sub-unit 20A alone. Between 1999 and 2005 and average of 10-13 bears were harvested per regulatory year. Between 2006 and 2009 that reported harvest is 23-26 bears per regulatory year. Bear sightings and damages by grizzly in the region have also increased with the harvest.
    · Bear human conflict are on a rise, in a large portion of unit 20 A, and expected to increase due to the 2009 fire season. It is common for bears to avoid newly burnt areas and travel around them. The fires in 20C and 20A in the 2009 summer season left a small corridor of unburned growth for the bears to travel through. This corridor is widely populated by rural residents and home stead communities. Along the parks highway.
    · It is also expect that increased bear traffic in these rural areas will also increase the non reported bear harvest due to rural, DLP or other harvest,
    · Spring black bear hunters have already seen a substantial decrease in black bears on the bait sites and a very substantial increase in grizzly bear activity on the bait sites. Some sites seeing as many as 20 different grizzly bears. Fish and Games last project population put the grizzly population at ~250 bears for unit 20A. This estimate would put nearly 5% of all unit 20 A bears in one bait site in the spring. While similar bait sites across the unit are seeing collaborating results in grizzly activity. In the last two years, many Black bear baiting sites that have traditionally been productive for black bear harvest; have been devoid of all black bears, due to the amount of Grizzly activity. Though it is not uncommon for both black and grizzly bears to frequent that same site simultaneously, it is believed the sheer numbers of grizzly in these areas has pushed the black bears out of the region.
    · Black bear populations projected in the 2002 (July 1998-June 2001) fish and game report for unit 20 A, B , C, F of 34,079 mile2. indicates black bear population were already considered low for the Tanana flats portion of unit 20A with “population status and trend” were relatively low compared to other areas survey with a population of 500-700 bears for the whole of unit 20A (Black Bear management report of survey-inventory activities, 1 July 1998- 30 June 2001) This current trend of Grizzly predation and encroachment is also against the management direct of the same report. {Protect and maintain the black bear population and its habitat in concert with other components of the ecosystem}
    · While Page 27 of the{ brown bear management report 1 July 2000-30 June 2002} population and size density “the Tanana flats in unit 20A provide relatively poor grizzly bear habitat” Black bear bait stations as far out into unit 20A along the wood river tributary and Tanana river have been decimated by grizzly populations and several have reported NO black bears in two years
    · Grizzly bear harvest has been set at a sustainable limit due to road accessibility of unit 20A, unit 20A is bordered on a small portion of it western edge by the parks highway. This corridor is also 90%+ privately owned land along the communities of Healy, Anderson, Clear AFB, Nenana, as well as native, and Rail Road lands… Motorized access into unit 20A is limited two primary locations along the Rex Trail system and the Ferry Trail management area. With the FTMA bordered on two sides by the wood river CUA and the Yanert CUA, as well to include an archery only area of the Lignite CUA near Healy.[as defined by 5AAC.92.540} The sustainable harvest and dates for the season have not met, or kept the limit in place for the bear populations. Many of these Interior Grizzly bears frequenting the populated areas are reaching coastal brown bear proportional size of 8-10 foot in size. Many of these bears are traveling across from another widely inaccessible unit of 20C of which nearly one third [1/3] is National park in which hunting is not allowed. Further Unit 20A has the two large Control use areas (CUA) that prevent hunter accessibility in to the furthest regions of the unit.
    · It is unlikely that unit 20 A or unit 20C can be over harvested of Grizzly bears due to the fact that annual moose harvest quota’s of the intensive management “any bull tags or prescribed cow hunts” are not getting met due to access restrictions and limitations. Much of both units are accessible by fly in only. It is likely however that the grizzly bear population if left unchecked will continue to grow in to troublesome proportions
    · Moose calf recruitment is still at a low in units 20 A and 20 C, grizzly predation will continue to rise with the bear population. And continue decline in that calf population will also encourage the further roaming of large bears into populated areas, again increasing human bear interface.
    · Finally what will happen if nothing is done?, the managers of this resource will continue to receive poor and incorrect data of the harvest of these animals as hunters, homesteaders, outdoor enthusiast take matters in to their own hands and start eliminating grizzly bears of all ages. With this poor data, the managers will continue to lean toward the conservative side of management, and it is more likely that we will create a secondary intensive management predator control area similar to unit 16 with a dramatic decrease in the moose population that is currently just reached a sustainable limit under its own intensive management plan.



    4. What solution do you prefer? In other words, if the Board adopted your solution, what would the new regulation say?
    Page 94
    • ,unit 20A, One bear every regulatory year September 1 [5th] through June 30 [may 31]
    • Unit 20 C One bear every regulatory year September 1] through June 30 [may 31]

    OR (preferably)

    · Unit 20 A- One bear every regulatory year August 10th-[September 5]-June 30 [may 31]
    · Unit 20 C – One bear every regulatory year August 10th-[September 1]-June 30 [may 31]


    The current allocation of hunting dates has not made sense for many years. The bulk of unit 20 sub units D, E, F all have opening dates of August 10 through June 30, With equivalent or greater road access then those within the units at 20A and 20 C; Sub unit 20B with the largest population base of unit 20 to include the city of Fairbanks has a longer season then sub unit 20 A with the seasonal restriction in place due to road access. 20A is extremely limited via Parks Highway access and is predominantly fly in only. Were as 20 B is laced with access points corner to corner. It should be noted that after the 2005 fires to the north and east of 20B and the 2006 fires south west of 20 B the harvest due to DLP of grizzly took a sharp jump in 2007 in the Fairbanks and North Pole residential areas.
    Allowing the 20 A and 20 C seasons to open on the August 10 would correspond with the opening of sheep and caribou hunting with in the two units and allow for a few more incidental harvests of grizzly bears. The other option is to align the seasons with moose hunt opening of September 1. However for at least the next two regulatory years I feel it should be the August opener due to the high level of bear activity in the units and allow a greater take of grizzly bears to balance the population out. Future balance should the need arise can be met by returning to the September opening date. However all the adjoining units should have the same opening dates to prevent confusions among the hunting public. With the. This side of the street opened on the 1st and that side of the street opened the 5th. as the parks Highway and Nenana river are the approximate accessible boundaries for both unit 20A and 20C
    Unit 20D with a large population base of the community of Delta Jct and surrounding rural people has had, August to July harvest dates without any complication or sever reduction of grizzly population. Local 20D Black bear bait hunters have been run out of 20D for the grizzly population years ago. Unit 20D borders 20A to the east.
    Unit 13 has had for many years allowed one bear per year with no closed season and no harvest tag required,[except that portion of 13E within Denali State Park, Aug10th-june 15], with ample highway access via the Parks, Glenn, Richardson, and Denali Highways; As well a substantial trial system between each highway. And no significant reduction of bear numbers, Unit 13 Borders unit 20A to the south.
    Unit 12 borders unit 20 to the east with season openers of August 10- June 30
    Unit 16 to the south west is a well known predator control area that is under intensive predator management just outside and with ready access to the states’ largest population base of The Mat-Su and Anchorage. With limits of 2 grizzly per year and no closed season available. With ready highway access and elaborate trail and river systems throughout. In this area the Board of game and the state of Alaska resorted to the use of helicopters and bucket snares to reduce the black bear population as the hunter pressure of 500 black bear harvest a year was not enough.

    It would make sense that the units of 20 A and 20C have become refuge for hunted populations of predatory game that has been readily accessed by many points around bordering GMU’s and this game is accumulating in the harder to access regions of 20 A and 20C.


    Both units 20 A & 20C are widely inaccessible, and have a myriad of problems associated with access. The addition of time in the spring is to accommodate Local rural residents
    1. that are more likely to harvest and report a bear if the season is open rather than to deal with a problematic bear and leave it to waste and not report harvest or deal with the DLP reporting
    2. Or would rather report it out of bordering unit 13 with no closed season no tag required.
    Many of the large grizzly bears do not become an issue until the late spring during the weeks; the end of may through mid June. At which point the general season is closed to the taking of Grizzly bears. The prime majority of trail/game cam photos of Grizzly on a bait site in these areas is June 6th-June 26th; The unburned corridor of available green access for the bears; due to spring melt/run off and a combination of frozen ground with nowhere for the water to drain, the low levels and flats of both units 20 A and 20 C during the months of May are commonly under 1-3 foot of standing snow melt. Hunter accessibility is extremely difficult and limits hunting activist to the mountain region of unit 20 A to the west along the wood river CUA up to the boundary of Denali Nat. park...




    5. Does your proposal address improving the quality of the resource harvested or products produced? If so, how?
    Not immediately however this is not for improving the bear resource but to reduce the human bear conflict that is due to arise with the millions of acres burned in 2009 with in and surrounding these units.
    Alaska fire service- (AFS) TAD (Tanana Zone) 43fires totaling 807,390.7acers
    State of Alaska (DOF) FAS (Fairbanks) 66Fires totaling 649,468.5 acres for a combined 1,456,859.2 acres of which 1,173,944.1 acres directly affected the units 20A and 20 C

    Alaska Interagency Coordination
    Center Situation Report
    Monday - 11/09/2009
    Though long term results are likely to improve diversity of various game populations

    6. Solutions to difficult problems benefit some people and hurt others:
    A. Who is likely to benefit if your solution is adopted?
    All rural Residents living within the regions of 20A and 20C, though much of these units are remote and inaccessible; there are many homestead communities and remote parcels and cabins off the road system between Denali national Park and Nenana.
    All hunters that would harvest a grizzly bear during the season, as well all hunters that utilize these units for other game harvest such as moose and black bear.
    Fish and game wildlife managers are likely to regain some of the public trust in listening to the public concerns and observation in term to these population issues expounded by the mangers complete lack of current data for the population size or studies to gather that data. The residents, miners, farmers, Homesteaders, Visitors, and hunters, are the only variable source of ~accurate population size
    B. Who is likely to suffer if your solution is adopted?
    It is unlikely any one group will actually suffer outside of animal right activist, as units 20A and 20C are largely unknown and un visited units out side of the Denali park bounders, The Park being the primary attractant to the area. With a lack of ready access major navigable or popular water way with little seasonal fishing or other attractant into the areas, these units are largely visited only by Alaskan Hunters and rural residents, seasonal mining operation during the spring/ summer black bear season and fall Moose and caribou season.

    7. List any other solutions you considered and why you rejected them.
    DO NOT WRITE HERE
    1. Leaving the status quo, though a consideration is rejected as the current 2009 fire status, the substantial increase in population size and harvest, and the Data regarding the 2005/06 fire seasons out of Fairbanks DLPs makes leaving the status unchanged an unacceptable option
    2. Allow black bear baiters to take a grizzly over bait though a viable option; this proposition is for two sub units 20A and 20C, with 20A having a large population of rural residents along the road system. Baiting is not an option with in this sub unit. As baiting, typically results in the larger male bears being harvested and there is anecdotal data to show that harvest of large male bears actually increase the bear population through increased cub survivability. When the intent is to reduce the bear population back to the manageable limit with a decrease in human bear conflict. And Increase the actual reported harvest.


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    VINCE HOLTON
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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Well thought out and put to paper. Only suggestion would be to remove the part about just shooting them and leaveing them lay if new rule not adopted

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Default black bear draft 2009

    Please answer all questions to the best of your ability. All answers will be printed in the proposal packets along with the proposer's name (address and phone numbers will not be published). Use separate forms for each proposal.
    1. Alaska Administrative Code Number 5 AAC
    92.220.(a)(4)


    2. What is the problem you would like the Board to address? Many hunters wish the choice of salvaging MEAT or Hide on a summer or fall black bear. The current regulation requires the salvage of a summer hide that may or may not be worth the time to save.

    3. What will happen if this problem is not solved? Hunters that hunt for meat will continue to be required to carry seriously rubbed or thin hide out to be sealed when there is not a particular need for it.
    The requirement to salvage the hide off a summer bear but not the meat is irrational at best. The Interior bears of Alaska are typically excellent table fair and are hunted for that purpose.

    Hides harvested after the middle of June are typically thin and rubbed devoid of all trophy value. Bears in the fall are typically harvested my many moose and caribou hunters as incidental take. For the generous portions of healthy berry fed fat meat.
    Under the current salvage requirements hunters are required to salvage and seal the hide that could spoil over the term of a long hunt if salt is not carried along. And the value of the hide is soon lost.

    Hunters that manager to get hide out in the summer and warm fall months still of value, have at times difficulties in giving away that hide for use by another.. And tanning of even a small black bear can cost several hundred dollars.

    4. What solution do you prefer? In other words, if the Board adopted your solution, what would the new regulation say?
    Under salvage and evidence of sex page 28 for Black bears would read.
    From Jan 1-May 31, in units 1-7, 11-17 and 20 the hide skull and meat must be salvaged and removed from the field.

    From June 1-Dec 31 the skull and either the hide OR meat or both [the hide and skull] must be salvaged and removed from the field in unit 20. EDIABLE MEAT AS DEFINDED BY 5 AAC.92.990
    5. Does your proposal address improving the quality of the resource harvested or products produced? If so, how?
    It does, Interior bears are typically devoid of al the nasty fishy issues associated with summer bears, and are harvest as the opportunity allows year round. The ability to harvest a bear with a questionable or useless hide on a hot day strictly for the meat allows the hunter to concentrate on that priority salvage. The skull is the primary use of biological data and will still be sealed and data collected.

    6. Solutions to difficult problems benefit some people and hurt others:
    A. Who is likely to benefit if your solution is adopted?
    All meat hunters will benefit, and the sealing biologist will benefit. By not having blown or hair slipping hides to seal. The bio will only have to measure the skull pull a tooth and attach a seal. The use of Harvest tags state wide now also provides a tracking method of harvest data.
    B. Who is likely to suffer if your solution is adopted? Taxidermist may suffer some labor in wages by having few hours on worthless hides.

    7. List any other solutions you considered and why you rejected them.

    I have not considered any other solutions as this is a minor change in the standard procedure for many hunters. Hide or meat requirements are already in place in units. 9-10, 18, 19, (except 19D) and 21-26.
    Unit 20 is not a coastal region with few areas the bears may get into fish or other summer contaminates. Thus the choice of matter.

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    Well thought out and put to paper. Only suggestion would be to remove the part about just shooting them and leaveing them lay if new rule not adopted
    I was going to say the same thing. The note that folks will just kill them anyways would be off-putting to me if I were a Board member. Tell me why it is a good idea on it's own merits - don't tell me that I'll be making people break the law if I don't adopt it. The fact that folks might break the law isn't a valid reason to change it.

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    Well thought out and put to paper. Only suggestion would be to remove the part about just shooting them and leaveing them lay if new rule not adopted
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    I was going to say the same thing. The note that folks will just kill them anyways would be off-putting to me if I were a Board member. Tell me why it is a good idea on it's own merits - don't tell me that I'll be making people break the law if I don't adopt it. The fact that folks might break the law isn't a valid reason to change it.
    you know? that is interesting perspectives.. i questioned several people on the right or wrong of that prop to adding. and i have a email box full of i should have added a little more to it. Hope AK... alluded to this last year down in his area... and i know many many many of the people in my area. and i have told the biologist that the current harvest data is WAY off base.. and they are beginning to believe part of what i tell them. along with others.. the intent behind it all was to show

    there is NO population data... the F&G bios can BS what ever they want.. the ONLY populating data is from a bunch of pissed off hunters. that do not necessarily eradicate the bears but to push them back a few years. the survey i posted last night suggested the grizz pops were recovered in full in 2002 the increase in harvest that is 890% incidental take...

    most the information is personal on sight, or gathered from those like myself

    i gave them the argument.. they used in the arctic region.. NO DATA no money for surveys. and not enough hunter input...

    i am not sure the politically polite is always the way to go....
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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Its kind of like telling the cops if they don't shut down drug houses then the people will. What usally happen then is the cops start watching the people. They know if they get you once you will stop but the dealers will go on forever,its a sad truth

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    Default Another thought on Black Bear

    Black bear hide sealing also divulges sex info. My understanding is that the hide of a sow, and expressly the nipples, can tell biologists whether or not the sow was lactating. That might be an important aspect, I just don't know.
    Did you already talk to the biologists to see what all they look for when they get a bear in ?
    Got to agree with the others, though not to beat a dead horse. Ask for change based on positive merits, not negatives that might happen by disgruntled minority.
    You have done lots of good work here Vince. I still need to go through all the proposals with a finer tooth comb, but in general I see some good ideas. Thanks for the effort.

    To the rest of the folks, an important Advisory Council meeting is coming up on Wednesday. I know, I hate meetings, especially political in nature. But this will be the 3rd AC meeting that I will go to. A few members terms are up, and there is a chance to get new blood on the council. Some of the AC people are well rounded, articulate, caring, passionate hunters. Some are there for very small for focused reasons. Their input and feedback to me is, well, selfish. We need people on the AC that look at a myriad of concerns with the same focus and attention to detail, whether it directly impacts them or not.
    Hope to see you all there. Let's get there early and "own" the house!

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    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    also might wanna take out the word worthless...if a taxidermist is working on it...it ain't worthless and that word shows more emotion than the board wants, they want facts and they want it straight.

    i'm all for the voluntary meat salvage of black bears..don't understand why i am required by law to salvage meat that might be diseased...
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  9. #9
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    thanks guys but the dead line was last week. already gone...
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Default Uh...Jake,

    Quote Originally Posted by BRWNBR
    ...don't understand why i am required by law to salvage meat that might be diseased.
    Gather you've been out and about doing what guides do <grin>, but that comment right there is exactly along the lines of what the the proposal from the Arctic AC to change the edible meat regulation in our salvage law is asking for.

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