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Thread: 45/70 loads

  1. #1
    Member AKdutch's Avatar
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    Default 45/70 loads

    Looking for some opinions here on .458 loads. I just got my Marlin SBL and am working on some new loads. I bought three different 350gr bullets: 350 Kodiak, 350 North Fork, and 350 Swift A-Frame. I loaded them each up with 52grs of H4198 and shot them into Spruce logs. All three were pretty impressive, but different results. The A-frame had the most penetration, but the smallest diameter and lowest end weight. The Kodiak was the shortest penetration, but highest weight and diameter (it folded completely around the base). I took a bunch of photos and have included some.

    My question is: for moose and bear, which would you choose?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 106_4548.jpg   106_4560.jpg  

  2. #2
    Member Kay9Cop's Avatar
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    Default

    I think the differences in weight (12 grains) and diameter (0.16") are relatively negligible when dealing with a 350 grain .458 bullet, so I'd go with the Swift because of the penetration. In fact, that's the bullet I use in my .45-70, also loaded over H4198.
    "Beware the man with only one gun; he may know how to use it."

  3. #3

    Default Hard Cast

    If you want the best of both worlds, ( both penetration and weight retention ), use a hard cast lead bullet. Test firings into wet birch stumps against the grain show almost twice the penetration. Of course the mushroom is not there as it is with the jacketed bullets. If I were to cast as vote to one of the three you have shown, my vote would be for the A-Frame. I find they work extremely well in my .338 Win., .358 Norma, and .375 Ruger. Looks like they work good in .458 too.

  4. #4
    Member AKdutch's Avatar
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    Default 45/70

    I would agree with you about the cast bullets, I just haven't got there yet. My guide gun I had before would not shoot cast bullets into the side of a barn. So I am just figuring out new loads for my SBL, which has the ballard barrel. I did load up some 300gr CP FNGC bullets that shot into about a 12" group at 100 yrds, so wasn't real happy so far. Only reason I loaded those was cause I had them on the bench already.

    I'm going to do some more testing with the A-Frame loads, cause they shot the worst groups of the three I shot yesterday, but I like the performance. I'm going to load up some 405gr cast bullets I have and play around with the loads. The North Fork bullets did group very well and I am going to try to develope a load for them as well. But they are really expensive so I'll probably stick with the A-Frame.

    Does anybody have any kills with the .458 A-Frame they would like to share? How was the penetration and performance?

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    Default cast

    I have shot a lot of different bullets in my marlin, it will shoot almost anything very well. IMHO best jacketed bullet is the hornady 350 RN. I shoot mostly homecast now, 405 grn plainbase bullet, penetrates like no other and very accurate, (if you shoot hardcast make sure you pick a bullet with a wide metplate)

  6. #6

    Default penetration...

    I would go for the soft point that gives the most penetration.

  7. #7
    Member The Kid's Avatar
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    Default 350 A frame

    My boss uses the 350 Aframe in his 457 WW with great results. This was the first year he used this load and I know for sure there were two Brown Bears who recieved broken shoulders from it (he is a guide and was backing client so no he didn't execeed the limit). I believe on one angling shot he broke the shoulder and took out 3 or 4 vertebre, and the ones he recovered looked great with about 70% weight retained.

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    Default

    Cast Performance Bullet Co offers some outstanding cast bullets with gas checks. They have a huge metplat. I load the 460 gr. It should have the best penetration, but no expansion.

    http://www.castperformance.com/StoreFront.bok

  9. #9

    Talking no issues

    First, let me commend you on your satisfying results on your experimenting. Great job. I don't think you have any issues with any of the bullets, because I think they'll all do the job. There's not a whit of practical difference in them...it's what you like. Accuracy would be my determining factor in choice, but I'll be they'll all be close also. What velocity are you getting?
    If you like getting kicked by a mule...then you'll "love" shooting my .458.

  10. #10
    Member AKdutch's Avatar
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    Default Velocity

    I did not get to chrono the loads cause mine is broken, but my book shows they should be around 2190fps with 52gr of H4198. I think I will end up using the North Fork bullets for hunting just because they did have good penetration and and were very accurate, but use the Swift bullets to practice with as they were alot cheaper. I read a review of a bunch of .458 bullets and the North Fork came out on top. I can't wait to try some longer distance shots to see how my rifle shoots them. I'll post more when I get the loads dialed in more.

  11. #11
    Member Alaska Bush Hunter's Avatar
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    Thumbs up 45-70

    45-70 Marlin Load
    Reloader 7 @ 51.8
    350gr Stoner Hardcast FNGC
    210M primer
    WW Cases

    450 AK in Win 71
    Reloader 7 @ 61.0
    Same bullet
    CCI 200
    WW Cases

  12. #12

    Default

    Nice. Is that max book load or what you have worked up? I've got some kodiak 350's loaded in 457 ww mag for mine at about the same FPS but the only powder I could find this fall was 3130, 4198 was dry for months. Almost don't need the extra capacity at those velocities. The marlin sure grew some legs with 350's @ 2100+ though, I'd trust it too 250yards now.

  13. #13
    Member Alaska Bush Hunter's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Marlin Load

    This is close to max for RL 7 ......for the Marlin.......if I had a Ruger 1 this would be my starting load with Speer 350gr SP in the 45-70.

    I tried the hevier 400gr and 405gr but the kick stole the fun away. Mr Stoner from Anchor Gun Show suggested several years ago to go to the 350gr Hardcast FNGC which the Ballard rifiling was made for cast bullets in the Marlin. He Casted his own very hard with Gas Checks and sold them at the show. I have yet recovered a bullet......I guess their still going!

    I have had good results also with H322 and IMR 3031 in the 45-70 and 450AK.

  14. #14

    Default

    Have any of you ran the Hornady InterLock Bullets? Way cheap option and I hear good things. Those North forks are SPENDY!!!

  15. #15
    Member Alaska Bush Hunter's Avatar
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    Thumbs up 350gn Hornady

    The 350gr Horn FN or RN is excellent loadded up too 2000 FPS in the 45-70 same load as below with RL 7 in the Marlin.

    The Ballard rifiling in the Marlin is best with Cast bullet..........if you have the excellent Ruger 1 in 45-70 I suggest the Speer 350gr FN.....alittle tougher bullet.

  16. #16

    Default

    I've got the microgroove and I'm hoping for 2100-2200fps in either the 45/70 or 457 case for a 350 gr then later a lighter 300 for non dangerous game.

  17. #17
    Member AKdutch's Avatar
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    Default

    Well I finally got to shoot a moose with my Marlin SBL. I ended up using 50gr of R7 with the 350gr North Fork bullet. I cannot begin to say how impressed I was with this round. The shot was 140 yards and the moose was quartering towards me. Hit him in the front shoulder and the bullet stopped under the hide behind the offside shoulder. The moose dropped in his tracks, tried to get up, but didn't make it. What was impressive was that it completely destroyed six inches of shoulder bone, broke a rib going in and another exiting, and there was no meat damage. I literally cut up to the hole and packaged it. I am used to massive damage from my 300 and this was just incredible to me. The bullet expanded to approx .68" and weighed 349gr. Definately a keeper for moose. The North Fork bullets shot the best groups by far (2.5" at 200 yards) and I ended up with 1925 fps with the R7. I could not get good groups with the H4198, although it had the most vel.

  18. #18
    Member Smokey's Avatar
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    Default

    Well done AKdutch! Looks like you worked up a great load - now ya showed us some good pictures of dead wood and bullets how bout a dead moose pic? Hmmm
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

  19. #19
    Member AKdutch's Avatar
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    Default

    Click image for larger version. 

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    A good friend took me out for the late season Tanana antlerless hunt in Feb. Was not able to hook up with him, but good advice led me to this young bull a couple weeks later.

  20. #20
    Member Smokey's Avatar
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    Brrrr looks very cold for sure - nice to get sled up to kill site I bet! He looks very "yummy" to me - thanks, nice pic!
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

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