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Thread: Interesting bullet performance or lack thereof

  1. #1
    Member The Kid's Avatar
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    Default Interesting bullet performance or lack thereof

    So I spent all of last week down on Kodiak hunting Sitka blacktails, man what a place and what a hunt. I decided to tote along my 458 WM just for fun and to test it out. I was zeroed with my handloads which are a 350gr Hornady RN Interlock over some H335 for about 2500fps. I had planned on using this load for all of my future hunting with this rifle but now I'm not so sure.

    First day of the hunt we spot a nice buck chasing a doe up the hill from us and my partners decide I should take the shot because I have never harvested a Sitka before. So I pull up and shoot at the buck from about 200yds and here a most satisfying twack, like you hit a trash can with a baseball bat and the deer trots into the grass out of sight. When I reach the downed buck (after falling off a cliff and nearly killing myself trying to get up to him, but thats another story) he is laying right in the trail about 25 feet from where he was when I took the shot, dead as dead could be. I had punched him right through the chest taking out one rib on each side and through heart and both lungs, zero meat damage, great!

    Here is the interesting or maybe disheartning part. The next day when I skinned him I found pieces of jacket the size of my pinky fingernail around both the entry and exit wounds. So I know that I got my buck and all is well but what if this bullet had started to come apart on a big bear or a moose could I have been in for a long tracking job and possibly a wounded and lost creature? I don't quite know what to think of this other than this gun really likes them dang expensive Barnes TSX bullets and I may have to go with them, I just dont know.

    What do you guys think?

  2. #2
    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    The only thing I ever shot with my 458 lott (loaded to 458 win levels) was a 1" steel plate @ 50 yds. (not the brightest thing I've done in the world but lets not go there )

    I shot it with both the 350 gr speer and the 350 gr hornady. As I recall, the hornady had a larger dia shallower divot than the speer 350, and as I recall the 350 hornady was leaving the muzzle at 2400 fps, the 350 speer 2500 fps. Don't know how that correlates to game. A friend has taken a couple of moose with the 350 hornady leaving his 458 win mag at 2400 fps, and they were both DRT.

    I keep hearing folks say how barnes bullets are expensive, but even for residents big game hunts typically cost us alot of money in travel expenses and specialized equipment. Hence the best bullets don't even factor into the cost of hunting.

  3. #3
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    I've used that bullet in 45/70 at 1880 fps and it always held together even on a full length brownie in and out. Might have had to much speed for the bullet to hold together

  4. #4

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    I don't care to shoot my 458 that much. If I were only using the 458 for hunting, I would just buy the Barnes for hunting and practice with the Hornady.

  5. #5

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    Kid: I have never used that exact bullet, but have used a lot of interlocks. I am assuming you were using the one listed on their website that has the exposed lead point. If you hit ribs on both sides, I am not sure that would indicate bullet failure. The front of that jacket folds back as the bullet expands and you could very easily lose some of it on both ribs and still have the core completely intact as designed. Interlocks are good bullets but in my experience thay expand quickly and lose more of their weight than some of the premium bullets. Therefore they don't penetrated as well.

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    Default You get to choose...

    Many, many big game animals have been taken with interlocks and core-lokts, and you can as well. My first brown bear was taken at 40-45 yards with 225grn core-lokts from a .338WM. The first bullet hit him dead center in the chest as it ran towards me...actually knocked it down and rolled it backwards, but then it got up and started to run away. I hit it a second time quartering away, and then a third time at the base of the skull as it struggled to get back to its feet. When I skinned it out, I found that the first bullet had pretty much blown-up when it hit bone at that velocity, leaving a large cavity under the skin without penetration into the vitals. Nonetheless I got him, and he looks good on my wall.

    That bear was taken over twenty years ago, and I never again hunted really big game or dangerous game with core-lokts...and I won't. In fact, I have only used what some negatively call "premium bullets" (Noslers, Swifts and TSX's). To me it's not even a consideration to use anything else, even though I go on do-it-yourself hunts that are much less expensive than what others spend, and I handload all of my centerfire ammunition. The relatively modest increase in bullet cost for "premiums" is way worth it to me. I have been fortunate enough to take many more big game and dangerous game animals in our great state, and I have complete confidence in the terminal performance of my ammunition.

    We each get to make our own decision...it's great to have choices.

    Doc (Chuck)

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    The speer 350gr Hot core is a much tougher bullet than the 350gr Hornady. Maybe because the 350gr speer was designed for the 458 win mag and the 350gr hornady was designed for 45/70=450 marlin. I know for a fact that when I used to shoot a lot of them out of my Lott they were a much tougher bullet, I now load them in my 450x2".

  8. #8

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    Starting at 2500, that bullet was only clocking 1650 by the time it reached 200 according to the Hornady manual. I can't imagine what's going on, cuzz I've hit deer with the same bullet at 100 or less where it was going bunches faster, and never had anything like that happen.

    I will join in the chorus that the Speer is the tougher bullet, based on a little bit of expansion testing I've done with both, as well as shots on game. Of course, I've never recovered so much as a piece of either bullet from game. Smaller exit holes for the Speer anyway.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    That bear was taken over twenty years ago, and I never again hunted really big game or dangerous game with core-lokts...and I won't. In fact, I have only used what some negatively call "premium bullets" (Noslers, Swifts and TSX's).

    Doc (Chuck)
    Well Doc, I read back through the thread and since I am the only one that used the term "Premium Bullets" I guess you "assumed" that it was used in a negative way. I too use Barnes and Noslers on large animals. I fact I use the TSX in a 243 on whitetales. I don't see any reason thought to use them in a .308, 3006, or 270 on a whitetale or other smaller deer. I was merely pointing out that the the bullet could have and probably did work as designed. A MV of 2500 fps with a hit 200 yards away should not have exceeded that bullet design. I have pulled broken pedals and pieces of jacket out of gut piles with Barnes and Nosler bullets. Neither do I think the choice of that bullet for hunting on Kodiak was the best, but that's not my choice. In addition that recommendation was made in two prior post.

  10. #10
    Member BrettAKSCI's Avatar
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    What's not to like about TSX??? That's my choice hands down.

    Brett

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    I wasn't specifically referring to your comment ragtop. I appreciated your post and found it to be informative...BTW, nice shooting.

    In fact, my comment, "...what some negatively call premium bullets", is in reference to no one in particular. I try not to offend or be disrespectful to anyone around this campfire. My comment is simply in reference to posts that have been made throughout the years that do have a negative tone towards the more recently developed, more expensive...."premium bullets." BTW sometimes those comments have been made by guys who I greatly respect in our forum community. You'll see the posts and commentaries occassionally surface as you hang around here longer.

    As I mentioned earlier, to me it's about choices, and I am thankful to live where we are afforded the opportunity to choose. The respectful dialogues that we have are useful as we and others formulate our own choices.

    Doc (Chuck)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett Adam Barringer View Post
    What's not to like about TSX??? That's my choice hands down.

    Brett
    Not a darn thing as far as I'm concerned. I use them a lot up here, and they are my first choice bullet for most (not quite all) hunting applications. This spring I drove a 100grn TSX handload through the entire length of a five and a half foot black bear.....257WBY, 75-90yds, bear walking away from me on a snow slide, entered an inch or so from the anus and exited the chest, leaving a hole a little under half the size of my fist.

    Doc (Chuck)

  13. #13

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    Thanks Doc, I appreciate the reply.

    I certainly agree with you and Brett about the TSX. It converted my 243 from a marginal penetrator to something that blows through them like a piece of newspaper. That's even dropping to a 85 grain bullet vs a 100 which I was a little worried about.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    So I spent all of last week down on Kodiak hunting Sitka blacktails, man what a place and what a hunt. I decided to tote along my 458 WM just for fun and to test it out. I was zeroed with my handloads which are a 350gr Hornady RN Interlock over some H335 for about 2500fps. I had planned on using this load for all of my future hunting with this rifle but now I'm not so sure.

    First day of the hunt we spot a nice buck chasing a doe up the hill from us and my partners decide I should take the shot because I have never harvested a Sitka before. So I pull up and shoot at the buck from about 200yds and here a most satisfying twack, like you hit a trash can with a baseball bat and the deer trots into the grass out of sight. When I reach the downed buck (after falling off a cliff and nearly killing myself trying to get up to him, but thats another story) he is laying right in the trail about 25 feet from where he was when I took the shot, dead as dead could be. I had punched him right through the chest taking out one rib on each side and through heart and both lungs, zero meat damage, great!

    Here is the interesting or maybe disheartning part. The next day when I skinned him I found pieces of jacket the size of my pinky fingernail around both the entry and exit wounds. So I know that I got my buck and all is well but what if this bullet had started to come apart on a big bear or a moose could I have been in for a long tracking job and possibly a wounded and lost creature? I don't quite know what to think of this other than this gun really likes them dang expensive Barnes TSX bullets and I may have to go with them, I just dont know.

    What do you guys think?

    I've mentioned this many times on the forums. How about a core/jacket seperation and a bunch of blood shot meat on the front quarter of a moose? That's what I experienced with a 200 grain pointed interlock that must have impacted at a modest velocity of around 2,400 fps. Some folks on here have had better luck with intelocks.....i however.....will never again waste my money on em. Interlock is a bogus name.....the core seperates from the jacket!? (what a joke). If you want to save money.......how about a speer hot-cor? sure the jacket aint as thick as some of the premiums....BUT common!.......pouring molten lead into a copper jacket.......makes sense to me. A heavy for caliber hot-cor.........that's how you save money

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