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Thread: Want to build a 50 cal wildcat on a 98

  1. #1
    Member whateveri8's Avatar
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    Question Want to build a 50 cal wildcat on a 98

    So If it is factory loaded and it can shoot out of a 98 Mauser action I've built it, or owned one at some point or another. I should go to an Encore or another single action rifle and just change the barrel. It would be cheaper and easier to store.. With that said I want to build another 98 Mauser before all the parts and accessories totally dry up.

    My wild idea this year is a 50 cal wildcat of some configuration. I of course do not want to invent my own wildcat as there are other people out there have put time and trial into developing a good working 50 cal rifle.

    With that said, I do not want a 50 in a Rigby or any Nitro Express.

    I want a total cartridge that will cycle in a standard 98 action

    I want to be able to chuck either big hunks of lead like 50 BMG slugs or as low as 325 gr or whatever those small 50 cal rounds are.

    I'm thinking of using the WSM as the parent case and blowing it out to stuff a 50 cal (.510 dia) bullet in.

    Does such a wildcat exist and does it have a name like a 50 WSM or something?

    Anyone have any insight for me. Example I was thinking of doing a 50 Alaskan, but that's a lever gun caliber or a rimmed case. I'm wanting a rimless or a belted mag case for the diameter.

    I do not want an elephant load. In fact I'm looking at loading to get the same performance of a 50 cal muzzleloader.
    God, Guns and Guts is what made America Great

  2. #2
    Member Diesel Nut's Avatar
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    Default SSK Industries?

    http://www.sskindustries.com/50.htm

    I'm thinking the 510 Whisper would duplicate muzzleloader ballistics with a 750gr at 1050fps. Of course you could step up to the 50 Peacekeeper which pushes the same bullet to 2200fps.

  3. #3
    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    Just remember that with any round, you need something to headspace off of, which can be either a shoulder, a rim or a belt. People will argue about what is the minimum necessary dia difference to headspace on, and while no one has come up with a definitive study of what's need, I've seen some agreement that you want the belt or shoulder to be at least 0.030" larger in dia than the base or neck (15 though per side) So for a 0.512" bullet, and lets say 0.013" wall thickness, that is a case that is going to be at least 0.538" dia at the neck, and you want it to be at least 0.568" at the body/shoulder junction. You also want the case to have some taper for extraction, say the case head is at least 0.020" larger in dia than the shoulder/body junction, and that calls for a case that is at least 0.588" in dia at the case head.

    The WSM case is 0.550-0.555" in dia depending on whose dimensions you go off of. Hence it is too small in dia for a 50 cal cartridge that headspaces off the shoulder.

    The only 50 cal wildcat I'm aware of that will function through a highly modified 98 mauser is the 495 a-square. It is a 460 weatherby case that is blown out and shortened.

    Just rember that there are few gunsmiths that have the skills to convert a mauser to such a large a dia round that will feed reliably from a magazine. I would be suprised if anyone could do the custom magazine, custom follower and feed rail work for under $1000, and that is just the work to make it feed. Such a project is very expensive and shortcuts will result in an overpriced single shot. You're looking at big $'s for expensive brass and custom dies any way you go, so you might as well end up with something on the more flexible side, and give consideration for re-sale.

    Honestly I can't see going to the expense of an M-98 based conversion when you can start with a CZ-550 magnum action to build a 500 a-square. It's already set up to feed the rigby sized case, so it's just the issue of barreling it. Or you could get a Ruger M77 magnum 416 rigby and have it re-barreled.

    The big cases are easily downloaded, I load my 500 jeffrey with 470 gr cast bullets @ 1100 fps for giant 22rf plinking loads.

  4. #4

    Default BIG

    I believe that CZ makes the 550 series rifle in the 505 Gibbs. This would be a good start and the cheapest route to persue.
    That's where I would start .
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

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  5. #5
    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    Cheap in relative terms, it's a $3000 rifle http://cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-550-safari-classic/

    The safari magnum 416 rigby is only $1200, and one should be able to get a 500 A-square barrel fit, iron sights and bluing to keep the total gun under $2k fairly easily.

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    Default

    I was in KY 2 weeks ago and stopped by whittakers. they had a real nice CZ in 505gibbs for around $2400 if I remember correctly. I'm sure they still have it.

    http://www.whittakerguns.com/

  7. #7

    Default YEP

    If your worried about 2-3 grand you probably don't really want to own one of these calibers anyway. Ammo is nearly a load only proposition due to cost and availability and even then components aren't cheap, unless you shoot cast bullets for cost reduction. But they are cool guns to shoot and they are 50+ caliber. I think resale on the CZ will probably be better than a homemade project, if times get hard and you have to liquidate .

    http://www.africanconservation.org/d...umID5/286.html
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

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  8. #8
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    Default Siamese 98 Mauser

    The 98 Siamese Mauser can be converted to the .460 Weatherby shortened and blown out without too much trouble. I know cause I've got one. It feeds fine. These were also converted to .45-70s and worked well. You might be able to put a .50-90 on one - I never checked.

    The Siamese actions and rifles can still be found but they are at lot more that the $20 they sold for in the early 70s! You should be able to put a gun together for well under $1000 depending on the wood and metal work. I used a surplus demilled .50 cal MG barrel turned down on a $20 action way back them.

    The military 98 actions are just too short to shoot the long BMG slugs in any instance but you can shoot some nice cast bullets in them at respectable velocities.

    The .500 S&W would be another fun project for a 98 Mauser. It is short enough to slope the magazine back so it would work with rimmed cartridges. Getting it to feed maybe a challenge.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by whateveri8 View Post
    So If it is factory loaded and it can shoot out of a 98 Mauser action I've built it, or owned one at some point or another. I should go to an Encore or another single action rifle and just change the barrel. It would be cheaper and easier to store.. With that said I want to build another 98 Mauser before all the parts and accessories totally dry up.

    My wild idea this year is a 50 cal wildcat of some configuration. I of course do not want to invent my own wildcat as there are other people out there have put time and trial into developing a good working 50 cal rifle.

    With that said, I do not want a 50 in a Rigby or any Nitro Express.

    I want a total cartridge that will cycle in a standard 98 action

    I want to be able to chuck either big hunks of lead like 50 BMG slugs or as low as 325 gr or whatever those small 50 cal rounds are.

    I'm thinking of using the WSM as the parent case and blowing it out to stuff a 50 cal (.510 dia) bullet in.

    Does such a wildcat exist and does it have a name like a 50 WSM or something?

    Anyone have any insight for me. Example I was thinking of doing a 50 Alaskan, but that's a lever gun caliber or a rimmed case. I'm wanting a rimless or a belted mag case for the diameter.

    I do not want an elephant load. In fact I'm looking at loading to get the same performance of a 50 cal muzzleloader.
    Check out www.cross-outdoors.com

    That is the website of a close friend of mine who has spent the last 4 years developing and testing exactly what you are looking for. The cartridge is called the 500 CYRUS. It is a short action magnum case with astonishing performance. The website is a little bit out of date but you can get Mike's contact info there. He can tell you everything you need to know about building rifles for the cartridge. He also sells complete guns, reloading dies, etc. if you are interested in any of that. He has built most of his rifles on Montana 1999 actions which are pretty much Mausers themselves. BTW he is also developing two other cartridges based on the 300 SAUM case. One a .458 and the other a .510.

  10. #10
    Member whateveri8's Avatar
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    Default So and Encore is looking better each day here

    I know the cost of changing a GEW98 to a magnum caliber, drill and tap for a scope mount mounting a new custom barrel, trigger, safety and stock to wind up with a pile of military Mauser parts in a barrel in the garage.

    I should just go with my instincts and get an encore barrel in 50 caliber (whatever) and be happy.

    Unless I magnumize a 50 cal, the ol' 35 Whelen is going to out perform it.

    Better yet, I should just go with an existing Black Powder Cartridge Rifle in the caliber of choice like a 50 sharps or a 50-110 in a Uberti, 1885 Winchester or the like.

    That's what I like about this forum. Saves me time and money before I try another stupid project. I must have 5 or 6 Mauser projects I started and did not finish or changed my mind at the last minute. Trouble is the barrel is fitted to the stock or I changed the idea on what stock I wanted or started a magnum and decided against it after sending out the bolt and receiver to be cut for magnum cartridges, found a better barrel, or another caliber of barrel and the like.

    I still say a guy can do all his hunting with a 30-06 but I rarely pull any of the -06's out any more. I'm into wildcats these days. Always looking for a different "bang" when pulling the trigger
    God, Guns and Guts is what made America Great

  11. #11

    Default Selection

    You could build any of the desired caliber rifles on the Ruger #1 or #3 action and the magnum would be no problem. Not a repeater but neither were Farquarsens and there were many of them used on dangerous game.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

  12. #12

    Default

    Check out the accurate reloading website. Wildcat forum. Search 50 B&M Super Short. It's exactly what you are looking for.

  13. #13

    Default 50 cal on a 98 action

    I think the Cyrus is an awesome round that can do it all in the setup you are requesting it on.
    I have a 460 Weatherby X 510 in a handgun!

    ANother got to is the 500BFG.

    http://www.bfgcartridges.com/Cartridges.html

    Neal



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  14. #14

    Default

    MgGowan makes 50-348 (50 Alaskan?) barrels for the Siamese Mauser

  15. #15
    82nd airborne
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    Default .50 razorback

    a friend and i are waiting on an ffl. we have a .50 wild cat that will fit in a long action. (we use savage 110) that will launch a 647g at 2100fps. pm me for pics. we havent experimented with lighter bullets yet but im sure we will get some nifty results. we are selling a complete rifle for $15oo as soon as the paperwork goes thru. sub moa groups too!

  16. #16
    Member gunbugs's Avatar
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    Got a NIB Win 1885 50-90 for sale if you are interested. PM me for details.
    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind."

  17. #17
    Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Default

    Notice the size of the brake on that handgun? Guess what you will need on any big .50 based on a BMG case? I have thought all of my .375H&H were just fine for any brown bear I ever hunted and did not need more.


    I might step up to my Gibbs if I thought I needed more, but I really don't think I'll find anything more to hunt on this continent that a .375H&H can't handle.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

  18. #18
    Member RANGER RICK's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by evandailey View Post
    Check out www.cross-outdoors.com

    That is the website of a close friend of mine who has spent the last 4 years developing and testing exactly what you are looking for. The cartridge is called the 500 CYRUS. It is a short action magnum case with astonishing performance. The website is a little bit out of date but you can get Mike's contact info there. He can tell you everything you need to know about building rifles for the cartridge. He also sells complete guns, reloading dies, etc. if you are interested in any of that. He has built most of his rifles on Montana 1999 actions which are pretty much Mausers themselves. BTW he is also developing two other cartridges based on the 300 SAUM case. One a .458 and the other a .510.
    Mike is a very nice guy to deal with .
    I bought a 500 Cyrus CCM from him which is a .500 Dia he has another one which is the same case necked out to .512 Dia he calls the 50 Tactical.
    With the 500 Cyrus I shoot 700 Grain WFNGC all the way down to some plinker loads of 370 Grain hollow points gas checked .
    Here are a couple pic's of loaded rounds .
    Enjoy

    RR

    These are loaded rounds of 700 and 610 grain gas checked bullets .


    This one is a 670 Grain and some hollow points brass and copper.
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  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by RANGER RICK View Post
    Mike is a very nice guy to deal with .
    I bought a 500 Cyrus CCM from him which is a .500 Dia he has another one which is the same case necked out to .512 Dia he calls the 50 Tactical.
    Check out the April issue of Special Weapons magazine for a full write up on the .50 TAC by Richard Mann.

  20. #20
    Member The Kid's Avatar
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    Ranger Rick's 500 Cyrus is mega cool. I got to check it out when he had it in our shop getting some work done. Also it seemed to be suprisingly tame in the recoil dept when I test fired it. I cant wait to hear your story after you take some game with that beast Rick.

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