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Thread: No hardcast bullets for black bears?

  1. #1
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    Default No hardcast bullets for black bears?

    Greetings

    I've just discovered this forum and I've enjoyed the comments by board members.

    This is about what .44 mag bullet should be used in hunting black bears with a brief intro about the writer (not me, but pass along FYI).

    A professional hunter/guide, JJ Hack, who has 'been in on hundreds (if not a thousand) black bear kills' while a guide and black bear control mgr for the State of Washington and for the large lumber companies has extensive experience in this area. He is also a forum moderator at Greybeards Outdoors. http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.p....html#msg88845.

    Enjoy.

    AuProspector
    NRA Lifer

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    Member Diesel Nut's Avatar
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    I'm a little confused. Anybody who recommends using a hollow point bullet in a declared "minimum successful" caliber just doesn't live with the rules of physics. Cast bullets penetrate, hollow points don't. Plain and simple. No penetration, combined with a sub-optimum caliber equals wounded and lost game. I agree with his comparison of handgun hunters and bow hunters to a degree, but the rest of it just doesn't make sense. Were I you, I'd take anything said by poster JJHACK with a huge grain of salt. I'd also continue to carry hard-cast bullets in my big-game handguns.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    I'll be dumb and keep useing hard cast for all my hunting needs.

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    Member akrstabout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel Nut View Post
    I'm a little confused. Anybody who recommends using a hollow point bullet in a declared "minimum successful" caliber just doesn't live with the rules of physics. Cast bullets penetrate, hollow points don't. Plain and simple. No penetration, combined with a sub-optimum caliber equals wounded and lost game. I agree with his comparison of handgun hunters and bow hunters to a degree, but the rest of it just doesn't make sense. Were I you, I'd take anything said by poster JJHACK with a huge grain of salt. I'd also continue to carry hard-cast bullets in my big-game handguns.
    All I carry is the glock 20 with hard cast. On the other hand, in '98 I shot a black bear with a revolver. It was a smith and wesson 8 3/8" barrel in .357 magnum. It was loaded with 157 grain hollow points. We seen our first black bear at the bait in mid day. I fought him for the gun and shot it. I don't remember looking for a bullet or finding one, so assume it was a pass through. I shot in the lungs and it ran up a tree and fell out dead after the death moan. Still to this day I can't believe my dad had people bullets in that gun. After the shot I noticed what was in there and he said, "well it is better than nothing". So.... but like I said I carry hardcast and did also when I had .44mag.

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    Hardcast bullets have been proven time and time again to provide significantly better penetration on heavy game than hollow points. I don't see where there is even room for debate.

    The other 299,300,000 people can have it.

    Noone has a more intimate understanding of, or deeper appreciation for freedom, than a soldier who has fought for it in a country where it does not exist.

  6. #6

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    I've whacked a whole lot of game with handguns- mostly deer, but with a few elk and moose tossed in. Lots of calibers and bullet styles.

    I have had great performance from hard cast, but with one important provision. They HAVE TO have a large meplat. Make them pointed, round, or with a small meplat, and you better be good at tracking. Sure those shapes will penetrate, but like needles with very little tissue damage along the way. Hard cast with a large meplat give both the penetration and tissue damage along the way.

    Hollow points create the tissue damage if they expand rather than collapse, but at the lower velocities of handguns they can slow quickly and not necessarily penetrate far enough on larger game. I've recovered lots of 240 grain jacketed hollow points from deer at ranges from 12 yards to 77 yards. They're dandy killers on deer, but I wouldn't rely on them for bigger game requiring more penetration. They simply aren't going to do it. Broadside lung shots on a blackbear? Sure, they'll be dandy. But you better be prepared to pass up angling shots.

  7. #7

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    Wow that is weird article. It goes against everything I have ever read,heard or seen. I think I will be staying with hard cast bullets myself.

  8. #8

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    Mr. Hack didn't talk much about actual experience with hard cast wide nosed bullets on bear.
    He just said that they just passed through. Well, often black bears are not hard to kill. They'll run and then fall down. If a wide nosed .44 or .45 cal. bullet is used, it actually causes a lot of tissue damage because of that wide FLAT nose or meplat before passing through, leaving 2 holes for blood to come out of. But, on black bear, a 240-260 grain .44 or .45 cal bullet may work fine. So, it ends up being Fords and Chevys again. But me, if I had a choice, would use a rifle, but that's me.

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    I have no doubt that a 300gr XTP coming out of my 44 mag at 1300fps will do a wonderful job on a black bear over bait (or anywhere else where I control range, shot angle, etc). Problem is eveery time I get out of the truck I also have to consider the fact that the next critter I see may be a large brownie very close & personal, so I'll carry the bullet I'd prefer in the worst situation, not the best. I carry heavy hardcast with a big meplat.
    I don't doubt that there are many times that a good heavy (NOT 220-240gr "manstoppers") hp will put a black bear down quickly & with minimum failures.
    There has been a couple of interesting threads on this in the last few days on "Handgun Hunt.com".
    http://www.handgunhunt.com/forum/ubb...Board/1/page/1
    One thread("cast vs jacketed debate") is on pg1, the other ("let us learn from this, cast vs jacketed ...") on pg 2. Read the one on pg 2 1st.
    Vance in AK.

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    Ive used the Barnes XPB bullets on game with excellent success. Specifficly the 185gr xbp 45 @1300fps and the 375 gr xpb 50 @ 1800fs

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    Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Ranger Rick has filled all my needs for any cast bullets that I don't have molds for or want to have made, his bullets are well thought out and work to my complete satisfaction. He gives you what you want and is a home grown source that needs To be remembered for all your cast bullet needs.


    RGIBSON@CI.HOMER.AK.US Heis the man and belongs to this web site.

    Cell # is 907-399-7416
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    Maybe it's my computer but the web address doesn't come up.

  13. #13
    Member Diesel Nut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AuProspector View Post
    Maybe it's my computer but the web address doesn't come up.
    That's his e-mail address.

    Here's a link to a sample of his product line:

    http://www.lsstuff.com/ranger-rick/

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    Member GrassLakeRon's Avatar
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    Hi,

    I like JJ on Greybeards forums, but I load hardcasts for black bear in my 357 mag. You will notice several those from GBO in these forums as well.

    Ron

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    Someone on Greybeards forum is either hitting the crack pipe or it is a very early April Fools joke.
    Tennessee

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    Here is another good source for AK made cast bullets:

    http://bullshop.gunloads.com/index.html

    He is up in Delta. I has a lot more to offer than just what is listed on the website. If you want it, he can probably cast it.

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