View Poll Results: grissly on bait? unit 20 A, 20B, 20 C etc

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  • i actually see them while hunting

    13 37.14%
  • they hit mine hard but i rarley see them do it,, lots of pictures thogh

    18 51.43%
  • grizz do not hit my bait just black bears

    6 17.14%
  • i have only grizz on my bait

    7 20.00%
  • i bait in unit 20A

    11 31.43%
  • i bait in unit 20B

    15 42.86%
  • i bait unit 20c

    0 0%
  • i bait 20d

    4 11.43%
  • i bait 20e

    0 0%
  • i bait 20 f

    1 2.86%
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Thread: need an Honest opinion....for INTERIOR Baiting..

  1. #1
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Default need an Honest opinion....for INTERIOR Baiting..

    1How many have been in the stand with Grizz hitting the bait?



    2how many have got photos but never seen the grizz?


    how many do NOT have grizz hitting bait in the spring?


    i am working on a Prop for the BOG. there are several out that will deal specifically with spring Grizz in unit 20 and nearby..

    i know some folks would like to hunt grizz over bait.. but i also know it is NOT that easy to do..

    so i would like some accurate truthful non emotionally charged accounts...
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  2. #2
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    please try to keep it to one sitution and one unit.. if you hunt multipal units or various baits with differnt issues.. .please post or PM to keep you info confidnetial...

    thanks


    i know these will not be HARD numbers but i will give an idea as to HOW the best way to write the prop will go...

    i am leaning towards extended seasons.. and away from baiting
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  3. #3
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    BTT... wow only three people baiting up here..? i hope i do well next year


    Please if you bait elseware feel free to share your perspective.. on Grizzly visibility WHILE your running your baits. only have to December 4th to get all this done. i would like to write GOOD props...

    thanks
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  4. #4
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Its been almost 20 years but I saw a case where two very young (six month) Brownies were shot over bait buy someone who thought there were black bear. Their mother had been shot and left in the field after the hunter finely saw the cubs. The person that shot the sow was found buy word of mouth and delt with. The other hunter got a butt chewing and some extra. It took about three months to sort it all out but in a town that respects bears its best to own up on mistakes.

  5. #5
    Member skip olsen's Avatar
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    Default Grizzly Bear Baiting

    I Put In A Proposal For Baiting Grizzlies In 20A-20B-20C My Out Look On It With All The Cow Moose That Have Been Killed Off And No Preditor Control In This Areas The Grizzies Don't Have As Many Moose Calfs To Eat So They Our Going After Black Bears On Bait Stands, So When The Board Of Game Meets In The Spring We Will Need All Those Picture's To Show Them The Problems We Are Having And The Size Of Some Of These Grizzly Bears That Are Coming To These Stands.

  6. #6
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    Default great question

    the day will come when someone will have to climb out of their baited stand with a grizzly that "owns" it, and they'll get hurt or killed.
    there should be a compromise to be allowed to take a grizzly from a bait site.
    a suggestion would be, if you choose to take a grizzly, you are done baiting for that season and the following season. some will take some grizzlies and some won't.
    there should be less risk of a perceived over harvest like the 20A cow hunt.

  7. #7
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skip olsen View Post
    I Put In A Proposal For Baiting Grizzlies In 20A-20B-20C My Out Look On It With All The Cow Moose That Have Been Killed Off And No Preditor Control In This Areas The Grizzies Don't Have As Many Moose Calfs To Eat So They Our Going After Black Bears On Bait Stands, So When The Board Of Game Meets In The Spring We Will Need All Those Picture's To Show Them The Problems We Are Having And The Size Of Some Of These Grizzly Bears That Are Coming To These Stands.

    well thats kind of my question Skip, HOW many bears are SEEN vrs how many are photo graphed...

    they allowed Baiting for girzz over by TOK and have seen almost no increase in grizz harvest for it..

    I don't thin the grizz of any age will come in while a hunter is there. they are too smart... thats why i asked... HOW MANY ACTUALLY SEE THE GRIZZ while hunting their baits?

    Thanks
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  8. #8
    Member skip olsen's Avatar
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    Vince I'll Hook You Up I Have Freinds That Hunt In 20A 20B And 20C That Have Them Come To There Bait All The Time, Do They Have The Chance To Shoot Them, They Say They Walk Right In Like They Own The Place, All We Need Is To Be Able To. You Have To Understand The Grizzlies Down In Tok They Have Moose Calfs And Carbou Calf To Eat And They Know Where They Calve Out At. I Would Lay You Money If They Did The Bear Bait In The Fall During Moose Season When People Could Watch There Baits While Moose Hunting And When The Bears Are Trying To Fatten Up For The Winter It Would Be A Sucess Down There. Ive Got To Get These Freind Of Mine In To These Site And You Will Have More Response On This. I Like What You Are Doing You Have Something That You Can Track And Show The Board Of Game. But Don Young Has Done No Favors For The Hunters Around Here With No Peditor Control And Killing Off The Cows.

  9. #9
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skip olsen View Post
    Vince I'll Hook You Up I Have Freinds That Hunt In 20A 20B And 20C That Have Them Come To There Bait All The Time, Do They Have The Chance To Shoot Them, They Say They Walk Right In Like They Own The Place, All We Need Is To Be Able To. You Have To Understand The Grizzlies Down In Tok They Have Moose Calfs And Carbou Calf To Eat And They Know Where They Calve Out At. I Would Lay You Money If They Did The Bear Bait In The Fall During Moose Season When People Could Watch There Baits While Moose Hunting And When The Bears Are Trying To Fatten Up For The Winter It Would Be A Sucess Down There. Ive Got To Get These Freind Of Mine In To These Site And You Will Have More Response On This. I Like What You Are Doing You Have Something That You Can Track And Show The Board Of Game. But Don Young Has Done No Favors For The Hunters Around Here With No Peditor Control And Killing Off The Cows.

    i'll shoot you a pm with my email.. thanks
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

    meet on face book here

  10. #10
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    i have been trying to research the Arctic regions Grizz/brown props that were all shot down by the BOG as well.. some seemed to have good merit and other were fluff..

    the one thing that keeps coming back to me is LACK of data.

    the F&G bio simply do not have any bear data nor the funding to get said data..

    so they err on the side of caution. the GRIZZ in 20A B, C.. are scheduled under a managed harvest quota for a managed rate of harvest.. ( what ever that means)

    the BIOS do not know if we can except a higher rate of harvest regardless of the view by the hunting public.. so we need to show some serious input for even extending the season a few weeks.


    I know of one prop already written to allow grzz baiting in 20C. and it is based on moose calf survial.. however that is still one of the few units with out antler restrictions... though that may soon change as well.
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  11. #11
    Member walk-in's Avatar
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    I have seen a grizz on my bait on two occasions. Both times it was already there when I got there. I knew there was a bear there because I could hear it as I came in to the bait, but I didn't know if it was a grizz or a black. It may have been the same bear both times, although I'm not positive of that. This was about 6 years ago.
    We are right to take alarm at the first experiment upon our liberties.
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  12. #12
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    Vince If your looking for pictures for a presentation let me know. Or perhaps all the fellas here will go and post them on the Baiting page......Which I'll start off for ya.Nothing but Grizzlies right?

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    Last summer off the Aniak we had two stations set up and had a grizz hit one ,probably, as we weren't there to see it. The barrel and ground around the tree were pretty well torn up. The other station only had black bear on it.

    The other station out that way only had black bear on it also. Hope this helps.

  14. #14

    Default Need to get something passed

    that would allow 1 grizz to be harvested off of bait. Possibly a situation where we could say one grizz off of bait every 4 years?? Something needs to be done. There needs to be some sort of compromise and I think something like a 1 grizz every 4 years off of bait would work.

  15. #15
    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Can't agree with grizz off bait. Too many conservation concerns, and other concerns, and before too long hunters will be complaining they never see any grizz anymore, plus maybe a better solution is to allow non-res hunters to hunt unguided for grizz (but not over bait).

    Plus, you can't use trail cams and anecdotal info from baiters to really determine true densities. The way they do use bait to do that is like what Gardner did in 20E a few summer's ago with the hair-snag barbed wire around a bait-scent site...but then they have a lot of other sites like that and then they can compile the dna info to determine real densities and ranges.

    Sometimes there are unintended consequences to things too, and if baiters start arguing it's dangerous to bait black bears because too many grizz are showing up...well use your imagination. Baiting is becoming evermore popular, and conflicts with bait-sites seem to be growing exponentially. Many have already called for solutions just to that issue, and to folks leaving bait stations out there in the field etc. Add the allowance of grizzly baiting to the mix, and again I say be real careful what you wish for.

    Just my opinion, certainly open to other ideas, like Northway's one-every-four-years over bait, but that is problematic too cuz a lot of baiters do and would share bait sites with others and we have the same concerns. If something like the one-every-four-years were to happen, I'd say only one per bait site every year.

    Cheers,

  16. #16
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    Couple of years ago I took video of three grizz on my bait in 25C. If I can embed it I will...
    All told I think I had four grizz total. One sow, two cubs and a three year old boar.

    Still took two blackies off of that bait, but it was a hair-raising gig going in there.
    Last edited by fullkurl; 07-07-2010 at 13:39.

  17. #17
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Mark i honestly do not see any Grizz bait props going the distance. baiting is already a tough issue. and i do not believe it is "getting as popular " as you make it sound.. i think we have a new influx of hunters willing too... but they are replacing many that figured out HOW HARD IT IS...

    Crap i have been feeding Grizz now 2 years on one bait. and part of me wonders if the issues i have with them 26 miles inland on the claim is not from them getting to know me... but man can those things eat...

    i will allow the bait to dry up for a few days and they will move on.. but there is always another behind it. i had 6-7 foot black bear tracks within 1/8 mile turned and walked the other way when it came across the newest grizz tracks..

    keeping the sight cleaned up.. and stocked.. is a PAIN.. and those bear KNOW!!! THEY KNOW!!!!!!!!! i am there or coming or going.

    i have one that comes 1.5 mile down the cabin and checks i am there or not.before he hits the bait.. been doing it for ~4 years now.

    baiting is NOT popular with the public.

    baiting is not popular with the BOG. unit 16 lots of blk bears taken.. very liberal grizz limits.. but .. no grizz on the bait no grizz in the traps..

    the bait failed in the TOK area..

    that was one of the reasons i wrote my prop the way i did. was to sidle up to it and try to get the off alternative to the system.. if this cant happen.. perhaps this? having the benefit of reading the similar props to the unit. give more options.. we all agree.. there are a LOT more bears now, and they are getting burdensome.

    and as i stated in the prop and i have it in writing from the F&G office yesterday..

    Baiting will;INCREASE BOAR TAKE, increases cub survivability and makes MORE bears.. that is why i don't like it in 20 A or 20B for that matter 20D near populated areas. and my hopes are that by the time this all comes to public testimony all of this " anecdotal data" will be stacked up.. with hunters and orgs behind it. because this anecdotal data.......... IN REALITY... is all there is for these bears. 15-20 year old surveys to plan off??? what are they thinking??

    BTW Delta AC also put in a similar prop to extend season for 20 A
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  18. #18
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    I guess i should also note that i have spoke with the authors of at least two baiting props and discussed it with them and the reasons they have not passed in the past . they are up beat and moving forward with a plan they feel will work.

    it takes a lot to change a law .. and regulations in the book.. even if it is one that i personally will not utalize...

    those people are TRYING and working at it.. if they succeed... more power to them.. because they DID try and did succeed.. if it is a flop.. or any of mine pass and flop.. 2 years from now. or sooner with AC request. it can be returned to as it was, ( almost)
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

    meet on face book here

  19. #19
    Member Hoyt's Avatar
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    I have seen MULTIPLE grizz, multiple times on the stand I hunted the last two years (20 B). I even got video of one bear two years ago that I saw a few times. Some of them were pigs. They are smart, but not to shy to come sit down and eat. I've been on stand for ever with them there. The bear two years ago was on the stand for atleast an hour. I finally yelled at him, and he ran off. I watched him leave a few times and come back before that, so when he ran off, I ran out. I will not be baiting there again. I'm tired of feeding grizz. I love to watch them, because they are neat and beautiful, but I need a new spot to put meat on the table. If anything, they could atleast have a drawing permit for grizz on bait in some of the 20 units.

  20. #20
    Member Hoyt's Avatar
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    I don't think the problems with the Tok baiting situation is that the bears are smart, and don't come in, it's that few people bait them or spend the same amount of time on the bait, cause most are coming from a good distance away such as Fairbanks. I thought about baiting down there, but I'm not willing to drive all those miles with high gas prices.

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