Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 47

Thread: barrel break in... help

  1. #1
    Member t-storm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    kenai peninsula, Ak.
    Posts
    114

    Default barrel break in... help

    can anyone give me specific insructions on barrel break in, have nice Dakota 308 dont want to mess up expensive equipment.
    Also, before I was clued in, I shot a box of ammo through brand new 264 super grade without break in. Is it too late to do it proper? Seems to be shooting o.k.,..

  2. #2

    Default

    Here's some links to barrel makers recomendations. I assume your rifles have button rifled barrels, if so break-in is not a big deal, but why not start out right.

    http://www.shilen.com/faq.html#question10

    http://www.bartleinbarrels.com/BreakInCleaning.htm

    http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/Break_...246-wp2558.htm

    http://www.hartbarrels.com/faq.php
    It doesn't matter what you miss them with.

  3. #3
    Member 1Cor15:19's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Dillingham, AK
    Posts
    2,482

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by t-storm View Post
    can anyone give me specific insructions on barrel break in, have nice Dakota 308 dont want to mess up expensive equipment.
    Also, before I was clued in, I shot a box of ammo through brand new 264 super grade without break in. Is it too late to do it proper? Seems to be shooting o.k.,..
    There is not "one" way to break in a barrel so don't be afraid you'll do it wrong. The point of barrel break in is to allow the bullets to smooth or polish the bore as you fire the rifle. To perform this the bullets must be touching the actual metal of the lands and grooves of the barrel which means the barrel must be clean. My routine is to clean the bore after each shot for the first six rounds and then after each 3 round group for the next eight groups for a total of 30 rounds. Cleaning should get easier as the process goes along, but the real proof is how many rounds will your rifle shoot before accuracy goes away. I have a 222 Remington that I clean more as a matter of conscience than due to its need. It will maintain very fine accuracy for more than 60 rounds and then I will break down and scrub it and find it is no different than its last group. I had a 308 Winchester that would open groups up after 9 rounds. Cleaning would restore accuracy until it fouled again and then it had to be cleaned, I no longer have that barrel.

    More important than the exact method for barrel break-in is the equipment used. Make certain you have a proper bore guide, a one piece coated steel rod, a proper brass/nylon brush, the correct brass jag and the correct size patches for cleaning your rifle. There are numerous copper fouling and powder fouling solvents available that work fine; pick one and use it according to its instructions. Proper equipment and technique should allow you to get maximum accuracy and barrel life out of your Dakota with or without the barrel break-in.

  4. #4

    Default

    I have only used this method for 53 years, However it seems to work great. Step #1 Buy or Build firearm. Step #2 Buy or Build Ammo. Step #3 Put cartridges into Said Firearm. Step #4 JUST SHOOT, And Shoot, And Shoot some more.........

  5. #5
    Member Matt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    3,410

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post
    I have only used this method for 53 years, However it seems to work great. Step #1 Buy or Build firearm. Step #2 Buy or Build Ammo. Step #3 Put cartridges into Said Firearm. Step #4 JUST SHOOT, And Shoot, And Shoot some more.........
    Exactly how I do it. My custom 300 Ultra has yet to have a cleaning patch ran through the barrel and it shoots great.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    SwampView AK, Overlooking Mt. Mckinley and Points Beyond.
    Posts
    8,808

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post
    I have only used this method for 53 years, However it seems to work great. Step #1 Buy or Build firearm. Step #2 Buy or Build Ammo. Step #3 Put cartridges into Said Firearm. Step #4 JUST SHOOT, And Shoot, And Shoot some more.........
    Now, there's a method makes sense.

    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  7. #7
    Member hodgeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Delta Junction AK
    Posts
    4,055

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by t-storm View Post
    can anyone give me specific insructions on barrel break in, have nice Dakota 308 dont want to mess up expensive equipment. .,..
    I've sort of formulated a similar opinion to some others here... that barrel break in is sort of a waste of time for most folks. Sure, you'll get some results and the rifle may clean up a bit easier and it might shoot a little bit better and then again it might not. I broke a Steyr in meticulously a few years back- didn't achieve anything other than burning gunpowder (thats not totally a bad thing mind you) and wasting time scrubbing a bore that already looked like a mirror. It might be important if you're a benchrest shooter or somebody that shoots a ton of rounds or somebody whose just kinda anally retentive about that kind of thing but I'm just not anymore. I thought about breaking in my Nosler, but its not fun enough to shoot and I'll likely destroy it or myself in the mountains long before the bore wears out.

    It sounds like your starting with some pretty decent equipment from the outset. I believe most of this barrel break in stuff got started when barrels were just made rougher as a general rule than they are today. Got a sketchy barrel ( I really doubt you do on a Dakota)- break it in. Otherwise I'd just shoot it.

  8. #8

    Default I think...

    Breaking in a barrel probbly helps some barrels shoot better. I think Dakota Rifles come with the very fine Loather Walther barrel, at least they used to. The best read I have seen on the subject is on the Krieger Barrels web site. What they say makes sense to me, especially what they say about the barrels throat. If I was going to "break in" a barrel I would use their method. "Breaking in" a barrel is about as much fun as cleaning the same rifle 20 times in a couple of days.......

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Fairbanks Alaska
    Posts
    58

    Default Fwiw

    I have read most of the break in stuff and I think what the gun Loony/writer Jon Barsness suggested makes sense. Shoot it until the group opens up clean it and shoot it some more. I got the impression it does not take a lot of shots to smooth things up. Some of the hot shot magnums are not going to have a long barrel life anyhow. Anyway my 2 Cents

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCountry View Post
    I have read most of the break in stuff and I think what the gun Loony/writer Jon Barsness suggested makes sense. Shoot it until the group opens up clean it and shoot it some more. I got the impression it does not take a lot of shots to smooth things up. Some of the hot shot magnums are not going to have a long barrel life anyhow. Anyway my 2 Cents
    As Cor has mentioned, barrel break-in is a process of smoothing out the barrel of factorying tooling marks in the bore. Kinda like lapping. The most efficient way to break-in a barrel is clean all copper after each shot. If you dont clean the copper after each shot any shots after the frist shot are essentially doing nothing to burnish the bore and are basically wasted. The benefit of this is reduced fouling and easier cleaning sessions and longer times between cleaning which leads to overall more consistant shooting.

    Important... you must get ALL the copper out between shots and you are accomplishing little to nothing. Most guys who think their bores are clean are mistaken. You can get get white patches using a lot of different cleaning products. If you really want to know if your bore is clean - free of copper - then spray some Wipeout in it and let it sit overnight. You might be surprised at what comes out.

    Break-in is not about getting better accuracy or longer barrel life. The rifle *may* shoot beter or maybe not. Barrels usually burn out at the throat and break-in wont do anything to prevent that. There is a product that claims to lengthen barrel called Gun Juice, by Microlon. I'm using it on my barrels during break-in. How well it works remains to be seen but I have noticed a reduced levelk of fouling.

    I Have broke-in 3 barrels to date and in each case fouling was significantly reduced. Take it FWIW.

    Quote Originally Posted by t-storm View Post
    can anyone give me specific insructions on barrel break in, have nice Dakota 308 dont want to mess up expensive equipment.
    Also, before I was clued in, I shot a box of ammo through brand new 264 super grade without break in. Is it too late to do it proper? Seems to be shooting o.k.,..
    No, it's not too late. You just need to gat all the copper fouling out. i use Bore Tech Eliminator at the range and Wipeout ay home. With the BTE, you'll get a few blue aptches initially and then the blue will start fading. At this point I soak the bore with BTE and scrub a little with a NYLON brush and let it sit for about 20 min. the patches get dark blue again usually unless you already have a fairly smooth bore which is unlikely from a factory barrel.

    Important... whne using BTE, DO NOT use brass jags and bornze brushes. The BTE will eat away at them immediately and which will give you a false blue indication on your patch. i use Nickel plated jags and nylon brushes.

    Hope that helps,

    Mark

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    In an easy chair in Cyberspace
    Posts
    2,316

    Default

    Blaser barrels dont require break in. Having looked at the bores through a $150,000 computerized laser nanotool proton accelerator borescope at the Blaser factory, I understand why.

    The late Gayle McMillin thought break ins were a farce.

    We tell folks to follow the manufacturers reccomendation though.

    Smooth barrel does not alwys equate to accuracy. My M41B shoots waaaay sub moa but the bore will always be as nasty as Boy Blunder Begiches Budget manipulations as Mayor.

    And I deserve kudos for the onomatopoeia

  12. #12
    Member hodgeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Delta Junction AK
    Posts
    4,055

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildalaska View Post
    Blaser barrels dont require break in. Having looked at the bores through a $150,000 computerized laser nanotool proton accelerator borescope...
    So thats where you got that mega scope... I think Blaser wants their computerized laser nanotool proton accelerator friggin' back!


    Seriously- if you keep talking up these Blasers I'm gonna have to break down and empty the kid's college fund and tell him to get a job.

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    In an easy chair in Cyberspace
    Posts
    2,316

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hodgeman View Post
    Seriously- if you keep talking up these Blasers I'm gonna have to break down and empty the kid's college fund and tell him to get a job.
    Funny, I just said to mine: "How come you have money to get your hair coloured but I'm paying your phone bill?"

  14. #14
    Member marshall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Near Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    1,814

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildalaska View Post
    Funny, I just said to mine: "How come you have money to get your hair coloured but I'm paying your phone bill?"

    Because she has the persian...

  15. #15
    Member marshall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Near Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    1,814

    Default

    Here's an other angle on break in procedures. I'm sure most have seen this video, it's been around the world a few times.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRRahHX9Zkg

  16. #16
    New member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Eagle River
    Posts
    250

    Default

    Here's another link to a "don't need to break in" article. Makes sense to me.

    http://www.6mmbr.com/GailMcMbreakin.html

  17. #17
    Member 1Cor15:19's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Dillingham, AK
    Posts
    2,482

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bookseller View Post
    Here's another link to a "don't need to break in" article. Makes sense to me.

    http://www.6mmbr.com/GailMcMbreakin.html
    I did not know Gale McMillan, but of course I know of him. I've seen this article and heard comments other places concerning barrel break-in, but I do not think he is saying that break-in is worthless or even detrimental in every case. He is speaking of custom target grade barrels here not bargain basement "Remchester" or "Ravage" barrels. I'm not disagreeing at all with skipping the break in on a custom barrel. I've had several BR rifles and known many other BR competitors. IME no one followed a break-in period with their rifle barrel, but these were on barrels that were hand lapped which often cost significantly more than a new production rifle. On new, unlapped factory barrels (i.e. most factory mass produced rifles) a break-in will promote ease of cleaning and consistency/accuracy will improve. However if you spend your money on a custom barrel then break-in is just wasted rounds down range and Gale is correct that you are simply shortening the life of a barrel with no commensurate gain for the expense and aggravation of breaking it in. So if you spend $400 (& another several hundred on chambering and install) on a barrel blank, skip the break in, however if you have just bought a factory rifle for $5-600 you might find a great deal of benefit in a barrel break-in if you are looking to maximize accuracy, barrel life and ease of cleaning.

  18. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bookseller View Post
    Here's another link to a "don't need to break in" article. Makes sense to me.

    http://www.6mmbr.com/GailMcMbreakin.html
    Gale's argument is based basically on one incorrect assertion... which is... Break-in does nothing to change the barrel and therefore is both useless and shortens barrel life. He is wrong and he contradicts himself (with all due respect)

    Quote:

    Now when you flame me on this please [explain] what you think is happening to the inside of your barrel during the break in that is helping you.

    If some one can explain what physically takes place during break-in to modify the barrel then I may change my mind. As the physical properties of a barrel don't change because of the break-in procedures it means it's all hog wash. I am open to any suggestions that can be documented otherwise if it is just someone's opinion--forget it.
    Contradiction:

    It takes from one to two hundred rounds to burn this burr out and the rifle to settle down and shoot its best.

    He is describing a physical change as result of sending bullets down the bore. It would take a lot less than 100-200 rounds to burn the burr out if the first few rounds cleaned were after each shot, because after each shot, copper fouling fills in, shrouds and "protects" these irregularities in the bore from the burnishing action of the bullet.

    To answer his question... what do I think is happening to the inside of my barrel? The irregularities and roughness are being worked out and my bore is fouling less. This is not my imagination... it's a fact. After I do a break-in it takes less effort (patches and bore solvent) to get the bore clean. Now anyone reading this can choose to believe me or not. But this is what I have experienced. My rifles are easier to clean... period.

    And whereas I dont beleive there is a direct benefit to barrel life, I think there is an indirect benefit. After a rifle has been cleaned it almost always needs a couple of fouling shots to settle in to consistant shooting. Often it needs more than a couple and maybe 5 or 10. This is because when a clean bore is fired through, powder and copper are laid down again, and in a rough barrel a lot of copper is laid down. This fouling changes the dynamics of the barrels ballistics. Most of the fouling usually occurs with the first couple/few shots. When most of the fouling is accomplished, the barrel settles down and shoots more consistantly. With a broke-in barrel, this process is shortened requiring less fouling shots and requiring less cleanings. There will always be powder fouling and likely some small amount of copper fouling depending on how rough the barrel. Some factory barrels can never be totally brok-in. I have a couple of used ones that are in that category, but the break-in that was accomplished did reduce the pre break-in amount of fouling.

    Also, it doesn't take 100 rounds or 10% of your barrel life to do the break-in as implied by the article. If it takes more than 30 rounds, IME it's time to quit and live with what you have which will likely be better than what you had.

    Last... some folks may think that break-in doesn't work, because they didn't do it correctly. The bore must be cleaned of copper between each shot and a lot of guys think they have the copper out but in fact do not.

    The world isn't going to come to an end because your barrel isn't broke-in... but to say that break-in doesn't work is just plain wrong... assuming you do it correctly...

  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Cor15:19 View Post
    ... I'm not disagreeing at all with skipping the break in on a custom barrel. I've had several BR rifles and known many other BR competitors. IME no one followed a break-in period with their rifle barrel, but these were on barrels that were hand lapped which often cost significantly more than a new production rifle. ............... However if you spend your money on a custom barrel then break-in is just wasted rounds down range and Gale is correct that you are simply shortening the life of a barrel with no commensurate gain for the expense and aggravation of breaking it in. So if you spend $400 (& another several hundred on chambering and install) on a barrel blank, skip the break in,...
    I understand what you're saying here because most custom barrels are lapped. But.... many/most still copper foul a little, although usually not nearly as bad as factory. If and when I ever get a custom barrel, I'll break it in just like any other barrel until the fouling, if any, stops. if i dont see copper after the first cleaning, the break-in is over.

    I know two top, well known smiths in the LRH forum. One does not recommend break-in for customs barrels and one does. My criteria for the need for break-in is simple. If I see blue on the patch, it needs a break-in. If I dont see blue, it doesn't

  20. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
    My criteria for the need for break-in is simple. If I see blue on the patch, it needs a break-in. If I dont see blue, it doesn't
    That says it all.

    I hunt for copper with Shooters choice but I clean it out with RemClean on a patch wrapped around a worn copper brush.
    It doesn't matter what you miss them with.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •