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Thread: Berger Bullets

  1. #1
    Member Fishhunter's Avatar
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    Default Berger Bullets

    Does anyone have any experience with these bullets in the field? I was thinking about loading up some of the 180 gr bullets in my 7mm Rem Mag for goat. Just wondering if they are worth the money.

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    Seconhand only, but from a friend who's a real enthusiast. They're superbly accurate and expand well at long range, which they're intended for. They're traditional cup-and-core construction, so a little more tender than Noslers or other premiums close up, but still work as well at close range as any Hornady, Speer, etc. I'd use them happily in any situation when most of the shooting will be past 100 yards. If facing a hunt where most shooting will be within 100 I'd switch to a partition, mostly to limit meat loss.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fishhunter View Post
    Does anyone have any experience with these bullets in the field? I was thinking about loading up some of the 180 gr bullets in my 7mm Rem Mag for goat. Just wondering if they are worth the money.
    The Berger VLDs (hunting bullets) are a highly frangible bullet. Their performance is a little inconsistant but for the most part they penetrate a couple of inches and then grenade. Sometimes they exit and sometimes they dont. When they do exit, they usually leave a large exit hole, baseball size or bigger. Something to think about if you want tne cape or hide. Have also read a few isolated reports of failure to expand. They are a favorite of the LR shooters for their accuracy and high BC's.

    The 180's will give you good LR performance because of their high BC. If you're not shooting past 500 yds, I would use a lighter bullet for flatter trajectory. There is a 168 VLD available in 7mm also. My first two choices in the 7mm RM would be the 150 E-Tip and 160 AB, and would go with the most accurate in my rifle.

    Mark

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    Member Fishhunter's Avatar
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    Default Thanks

    I was just wondering about them after watching a hunting show that features them. I am a fan of the 160gr accubond so, I will probably just stick with them. I have never tried the E-tip before, isn't it supposed to perform like a barnes TTSX?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fishhunter View Post
    I was just wondering about them after watching a hunting show that features them. I am a fan of the 160gr accubond so, I will probably just stick with them. I have never tried the E-tip before, isn't it supposed to perform like a barnes TTSX?
    If the hunting show you're talking about is Best of the West, they use the 168 VLD in a 7RM.

    E-Tips are a monometal like the TSX's but are made out of a guilded metal vs the the all copper TSX. The E-Tips are a little tougher in that repsect and from the pictures I've seen their petals when expanded look a little wider than the TSX.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
    Their performance is a little inconsistant but for the most part they penetrate a couple of inches and then grenade. Sometimes they exit and sometimes they dont. When they do exit, they usually leave a large exit hole, baseball size or bigger. Something to think about if you want tne cape or hide. Have also read a few isolated reports of failure to expand. They are a favorite of the LR shooters for their accuracy and high BC's.Mark
    I took a nice cow elk last month down here in AZ with a 175gr VLD Hunting Berger. This was the first kill with this type of bullet for me.

    I chose the bullet because it shoots amazingly accurate out of my rifles, (300RUM & .308 Win) and is plentiful from my favorite shop, (Bruno's Shooters Supply).

    The cow didn't take a step from a double lung heart shot but the exit hole was as described by Montana, It was soft ball size once shot out of the RUM at 260yards.

    No wasted meat since I don't care about ribs anyway. The hide isn't of interest to me either.

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    Member Fishhunter's Avatar
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    Default Best of the west

    That was the show I was talking about. I will steer clear of it because I do care about the capes of the animals I would use it on(Sheep and Goat) I will check out that e-tip though. Thanks for the info.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fishhunter View Post
    That was the show I was talking about. I will steer clear of it because I do care about the capes of the animals I would use it on(Sheep and Goat) I will check out that e-tip though. Thanks for the info.
    My brother took a nice Ram on the Brooks Range in August. He shot it with a 338WM loaded with an Accubond at 607 yards. It was a clean pass through with very little cape damage.

    The Accubond has a thicker jacket than the Ballistic tip with the same shape and ballistics. I imagine the E-Tip will do fine too.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fishhunter View Post
    That was the show I was talking about. I will steer clear of it because I do care about the capes of the animals I would use it on(Sheep and Goat) I will check out that e-tip though. Thanks for the info.
    I'm guessing the E-Tip will leave about a quarter size hole. They are accurate in my 300 RUM Sendero.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshall View Post
    My brother took a nice Ram on the Brooks Range in August. He shot it with a 338WM loaded with an Accubond at 607 yards. It was a clean pass through with very little cape damage.

    The Accubond has a thicker jacket than the Ballistic tip with the same shape and ballistics. I imagine the E-Tip will do fine too.
    I've read some reports recently of AB's coming apart. I shot a cow elk with one last year (180 g 3000 WSM) and it hit the spine and left a 2-3" exit hole.

  11. #11

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    http://www.barnesbullets.com/informa...alk/lab-tests/

    this is barnes bullets site, so there is bias for barnes bullets, but they compare Berger bullets, amount of damage done to bone gelatin, velocities, and penetration, etc. The only thing i have against Barnes is that they do make solid copper bullets and bullets close to that, so more copper fouling in the barrels, and a few tests penetrated 30 inches or so, an animal is not close to 3 feet wide, and the damage done is very little, It just penetrates and thats it. So thats why I shoot the 168 grain Berger VLD. i like it a lot, does great amount of damage and shock when it enters the animal. I do long range shots too, so this bullet is better for me. Performance wise, it is a great bullet, i am looking into making my other guns shoot this brand of bullet. However if you are looking to mount the animal the exit hole can be big. I shot a coyote at roughly 200 yards, and blew away its entire chest cavity, good portion of both shoulders, and probably could have divided that coyote into thirds. However longer range shots, can't compare to the Berger.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by kenaiking19 View Post
    http://www.barnesbullets.com/informa...alk/lab-tests/

    this is barnes bullets site, so there is bias for barnes bullets, but they compare Berger bullets, amount of damage done to bone gelatin, velocities, and penetration, etc. The only thing i have against Barnes is that they do make solid copper bullets and bullets close to that, so more copper fouling in the barrels, and a few tests penetrated 30 inches or so, an animal is not close to 3 feet wide, and the damage done is very little, It just penetrates and thats it. So thats why I shoot the 168 grain Berger VLD. i like it a lot, does great amount of damage and shock when it enters the animal. I do long range shots too, so this bullet is better for me. Performance wise, it is a great bullet, i am looking into making my other guns shoot this brand of bullet. However if you are looking to mount the animal the exit hole can be big. I shot a coyote at roughly 200 yards, and blew away its entire chest cavity, good portion of both shoulders, and probably could have divided that coyote into thirds. However longer range shots, can't compare to the Berger.
    If you're going to read the Barnes article then you might want to read Berger's response...

    http://www.longrangehunting.com/arti...formance-1.php

    I'm not a big fan of using Bergers for hunting, but the Barnes article is laced with BS and is basically an attack done in poor taste to boost their own sales.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
    If you're going to read the Barnes article then you might want to read Berger's response...
    Appreciate the "fair and balanced" approach MR. IMO, and as I've written before, the VLD are excellent hunting bullets for many situations. Articles fly from keyboards and have a tendency to buttress the reputation of the purveyor's product. I read one manufacturer X's website and they are indisputably the finest bullets available; I check a different website and lo and behold they make the best bullets not Manufacturer X. What's a guy to do? I particularly love this excerpt from the Barnes article:

    For example, let’s say one assumes the BC values assigned to a given bullet are correct. He then works up a load, creates a trajectory chart out to 800 or 1,000 yards, and heads for the hills. This individual could end up in trouble in a hurry. Why? Because we’ve found that the difference between static and dynamic numbers can be as great as 200 points or more in some cases.

    I'd say the individual is in trouble before he heads for the hills. I can hardly believe that the implication is that the poor BC value is the problem for this unsuspecting guy. Seems they are grasping at straws and speaking to only the most inept LR marksmen. Just my thoughts.

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    Thumbs up AB

    I think the VLD for sheep or goat would be OK where you need to anchor them on the spot. But for moose the Nosler AB has served me well in the 338 Win.

    Correct on the TSX good thing you can eat right up to the hole...........still like a little expansion with the AB.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Cor15:19 View Post
    I'd say the individual is in trouble before he heads for the hills. I can hardly believe that the implication is that the poor BC value is the problem for this unsuspecting guy. Seems they are grasping at straws and speaking to only the most inept LR marksmen. Just my thoughts.
    Yeah Cor, this article did not go over very well in the LR forum where most of the guys there actually know their stuff relating to the subject. And to use the words TSX/TTSX and 1000 yds in the same sentence is living in never-never land. The Barnes bullets just do not have the BC to get there and the guys who shoot those distances know it. I lost a lot of respect for the Barnes company when they posted that article and more when they respnded to Eric's counter article.

  16. #16

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    Another thing I found incredible abou the Barnes article is their assertion that their bullets are more accurate than Bergers. In one of their tests thye showed .5 MOA accurcay for their bullet vs 1.0 MOA accuracy for the Berger and in the other accuracy test, theirs averaged .7 vs 1.2 for Berger. Well I guess all the BR shooters just dont get it. It seems that they haven't discovered the Barnes bullet yet as you dont see them at BR competitons, just the innacurate Bergers and SMKs

    C'mon Barnes... get real... dont try to be something you are not. Be what you are and improve and promote that.

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    Default ribs!!

    Marshall where did you leave them ribs!!?? I dont shoot 1000 yards but I do shoot a lot at hunting ranges 100 to 250 yards, I will on average shoot 2 to 4000 rounds each year (mostly hornady, home cast,and speer) but in my rifles the barnes bullets are by far the most accurate and like i said in another post they do work. never used the bergers and IMHO no one has any business shooting at critters at extreme range.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yukon254 View Post
    Marshall where did you leave them ribs!!?? I dont shoot 1000 yards but I do shoot a lot at hunting ranges 100 to 250 yards, I will on average shoot 2 to 4000 rounds each year (mostly hornady, home cast,and speer) but in my rifles the barnes bullets are by far the most accurate and like i said in another post they do work. never used the bergers and IMHO no one has any business shooting at critters at extreme range.
    I brought the cows ribs home to the dogs, nothing stayed in the field except guts and hide.

    I have a great shooting 375 that loves Barnes TSX's but I have yet to shoot anything other than paper with that rifle. I'll be back up next September for another try. My 308 shoots just about anything and my 300RUM likes the Bergers.

    As far as shooting game at long ranges goes, I would say if you have a good rest and your proven at that distance go for it. If it doesn't feel right don't do it. I've been reading a few posts here and on other forums about bad shots and wounded game getting away, that's ashame.

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    Default ribs

    Marshall just kidding about the ribs! here in Yukon we must bring out ALL edible meat BEFORE the horns/antlers (I am in total agreement with this law) I guess its just different ideas in different areas but up here the ribs would be one of the last cuts we would leave! A good friend from here has been lengthening his season by guiding in MT after our season and he couldnt believe that leaving the ribs was common practice.
    I agree if you are confident at longer ranges go for it! But Ive been hunting far to long to believe that many are, its a real rare hunter that can ALWAYS place his shots at ranges beyond 300. Then you add fickle winds, elevation, no bench rest and you have the perfect recipe for wounded game. In over 20 years guiding full time I have never had an instance where those real long shots were necessary and Ive hunted some pretty open spaces.

  20. #20
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    Yukon254,

    I'm somewhat aware of the Alaska regs, I rely on my brother for the weird stuff, sucks that we can't bone in the field. I was born and raised in Anchorage, my brothers and sisters still live in and around the area. I got skunked last year in 17B after giving it a good try, this year I hunted elk down here. In the past we eat the rib meat in camp, letting them hang drys them out.

    I'll be up in July for Halibut, Kings and maybe a black bear. August for a Brooks Dall and September for another try at a moose. As far as bullets go, it will be a 300gr TSX in the 375 and a 175gr Berger in the 300RUM.

    I may work up a 180 Accubond or Partition load to save a little more meat around the hole. If you have a poor shot on a sheep you really screw things up with a fragmenting bullet. This past season my brother hit one high in the mid back. It was a one shot kill but as you know there isn't a lot of meat on a sheep and wasting the straps really hurts.

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