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Thread: .358 Winchester

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    Default .358 Winchester

    Anyone on the forum use a .358 Winchester? been wondering about this caliber for years, hunted with a 243s, a 7mm-08, and a 308 before but haven't hunted with a 358 winchester. From my reading up on it, seems like it could be a pretty good round, sure like the idea of a short action, compact carbine type rifle design and a 250 grain bullet.
    Any opinions about or experiences with this caliber? Thanks in advance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nukalpiaq View Post
    Anyone on the forum use a .358 Winchester? been wondering about this caliber for years, hunted with a 243s, a 7mm-08, and a 308 before but haven't hunted with a 358 winchester. From my reading up on it, seems like it could be a pretty good round, sure like the idea of a short action, compact carbine type rifle design and a 250 grain bullet.
    Any opinions about or experiences with this caliber? Thanks in advance.
    I think if you do a couple of searches Beartooth has been posting his load development on the 358 Win. I have a 358 BLR and have used it a good bit on deer. I can say with absolute confidence it is a very effective round on deer, and with suitable bullets I cannot believe that its performance would be lacking on moose and such. I have several loads for 250 grain bullets that develop 2300+ fps from a 20 inch barrel. I know that is an effective combination, though I have not killed any larger animals with a 358 Win. This year I carried the rifle a few times on day trips loaded with 225 Sierra GKs at about 2450 fps and had total confidence, but I am sorry that I can't report on its effectiveness.

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    There are several enthusiasts, myself included. I've got three of them, a custom bolt, a Savage 99 and a Winchester 88, if that tells you anything! I haven't shot bear with them, but would do so with fair confidence if I had to. Not my first choice for browns or grizzlies, but I have no qualms that it would work. I can report firsthand that it's a dynamite round for moose, elk and deer within its range. Haven't popped any caribou, sheep or goats with it, but it would be dandy within range. It's one of the very best cast bullet rounds I've tried, if your mind runs that way.

    I keep saying "within its range" because it's not as flat shooting as a 30-06 for example. I regard it as a 200-250 yard caliber. Those aren't flashy ballistics, but a 225-250 grain bullet in the 2300-2400 fps range is a stone killer. With even moderately strong bullet construction it penetrates like crazy even with good expansion. I've recovered exactly one bullet from something close to 100 animals, if that tells you anything about penetration. It was a large blacktail and a Texas heart shot at about 80 yards. The bullet hit at the base of the tail and ranged forward over the hip and just above the ribs, right under the backstrap, full lenght of the neck and came to rest against the right corner of the buck's jaw. It started at 200 grains and weight 134.6 grains when I plopped it on a scale. And that was a Winchester Silvertip, not known for by any means for heavy construction!

    If you're not harboring dreams of 400 yard shooting with it I think you'll be pleased, even impressed.

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    Default great caliber

    You will love the caliber, i have owned and hunted with 3 358s. I have killed animials from caribou to bison with it, and the 358 does it with authority. I agree with everything brownbear said except in his comparison to the 30/06, (that train of thought is what killed the 358 in the beginning!) with the right bullets and loads the ballistics of the 358 will equal or exceed the 06. Chuck Hawks, and Jeff Quin both have done some extensive testing of this round, you should be able to do a search and find those loads if you want. I think most hunters myself included shouldnt shoot past a long 200 yards anyway so its a nonissue for me, but the 358 is not just a brush gun.

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    So Winchester chambered the model 88 and 100 in 358 win. Savage with their model 99, Browning has a BLR lever action. Ruger has their Hawkeye in 358 win. Any other rifle manufacturers that you can think of that chambered this round? Seems that this would be a good cartridge for a Marlin SS lever action. Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nukalpiaq View Post
    So Winchester chambered the model 88 and 100 in 358 win. Savage with their model 99, Browning has a BLR lever action. Ruger has their Hawkeye in 358 win. Any other rifle manufacturers that you can think of that chambered this round? Seems that this would be a good cartridge for a Marlin SS lever action. Thanks
    Winchester chambered them in their FWT Model 70 & Model 88 (I did not know they chambered the 100 in 358, but maybe) and Mannlicher-Schoenauer produced a 358 for some time in the 60s. I thought Ruger made a run of M77s in the 70s but I could be wrong. While it may not be manufacturer recommended, you can substitute 358 brass for the 356 Winchester in the Marlin lever guns, at least you can in the guns I've shot. The 356 & 358 are externally identical save for the additional small rim on the 356. While their external ballistics are not identical, there's not enough difference to measure in the field.

    I think there are a couple of smiths that alter 35 Remington Marlins to 358 Winchester. Maybe a Google search will find them.

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    Winchester also had the 356 winchester all it was, is a 358 Winchester with a rim on it. It was chambered in the 94 big bore rifles. Pretty beefy 94. Marlin as far as I know never chambered the 356 in the 336, but I heard of people doing it? The winchester 88 and 100 in 358 command a pretty good price I have seen some listed for $1800 plus the savage 99 are no better you need to have deep pockets to get one of them as well. Until Ruger started chambering them again in the Hawkeye you ahd to shop around and hope you found an original tang safety 77 in the 358 at one time they were pretty spendy as well but with Ruger chambering them again the price has dropped on them. Also winchester chambered them in the pre-64 model 70 good luck findiong one and when you do be prepared to take a small loan out to buy one. I have a 358 in the Hawkeye and it shoots 225 gr sierra bullets very good... As far as other companies chambering this round is anyone guess...

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    Default Ruger 358

    Also just read over on ruger forums so take this for what it is worth that the 358 produced by Ruger last year was limited run. So what you see out thier probably want to buy it up before prices get out of hand...

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    Quote Originally Posted by 323 View Post
    Marlin as far as I know never chambered the 356 in the 336, but I heard of people doing it? The winchester 88 and 100 in 358 command a pretty good price I have seen some listed for $1800 plus the savage 99 are no better you need to have deep pockets to get one of them as well.
    I have shot several Marlin lever guns in 356 Winchester. A Google search listed Marlin 356 Winchester rifles on GunsAmerica and GunBroker for sale/sold.

    Here's an example of a Marlin 356 Winchester:

    http://www.gunsamerica.com/976917127...Winchester.htm

    As far as 358 Winchesters in their Model 100 I can't seem to find a definitive answer. I find no listing in any reference to them ever having been produced and cannot find a listing for one on any website. However I have read of persons having a 358 Winchester Model 100, but they provide no photographs or other documentation. I can say with certainty that if they were produced, I can't find any examples just hearsay, then they are so rare as to be practically unavailable and would be highly coveted by collectors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Cor15:19 View Post
    .
    As far as 358 Winchesters in their Model 100 I can't seem to find a definitive answer. I find no listing in any reference to them ever having been produced and cannot find a listing for one on any website. However I have read of persons having a 358 Winchester Model 100, but they provide no photographs or other documentation. I can say with certainty that if they were produced, I can't find any examples just hearsay, then they are so rare as to be practically unavailable and would be highly coveted by collectors.
    I am probably mistaken about a factory chambering, could be just a "firearms myth" that I read somewhere, or I may have read about a rebarrel job on the Mdl 100 action. Been a while since I have even thought about the 88 and 100 models. Thanks for clearing that up.

    Unless there was a special/limited run of them that was produced by Winchester back in the day ???

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    Here is some additional information I found online on the Model 88 & 100, info comes from the Wisner's Inc. website. Interesting reading.

    http://www.wisnersinc.com/additional...erl_88_100.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nukalpiaq View Post
    Here is some additional information I found online on the Model 88 & 100, info comes from the Wisner's Inc. website. Interesting reading.

    http://www.wisnersinc.com/additional...erl_88_100.htm
    Excellent link. Thanks a lot.

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    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...ight=Beartooth

    Using Tac powder with 225gr Nosler Accubond and Sierra 225gr SBT I got over 2500fps


    Ballistic Chart
    358Win Ruger Hawkeye
    225gr Accubond
    2555fps

    Sight in at 3" high at 100yds

    1000 foot pounds energy as minimum on deer size game

    Yards--------Velocity-----Energy-----(above/below line of sight)

    0--------------2555------3261-------------(-1.5")

    100-----------2348------2275-------------(+3")

    220-----------2213------2232-------------(Zero)

    275-----------2010------2095-------------(-5”)

    313-----------1941------1881--------(-10” P/B-hold top of shoulder)

    371-----------1837------1686--------(-10” from top of shoulder)

    390-----------1804------1626--------(-14” from top of shoulder)
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Cor15:19 View Post
    I have shot several Marlin lever guns in 356 Winchester. A Google search listed Marlin 356 Winchester rifles on GunsAmerica and GunBroker for sale/sold.

    Here's an example of a Marlin 356 Winchester:

    http://www.gunsamerica.com/976917127...Winchester.htm

    As far as 358 Winchesters in their Model 100 I can't seem to find a definitive answer. I find no listing in any reference to them ever having been produced and cannot find a listing for one on any website. However I have read of persons having a 358 Winchester Model 100, but they provide no photographs or other documentation. I can say with certainty that if they were produced, I can't find any examples just hearsay, then they are so rare as to be practically unavailable and would be highly coveted by collectors.
    I guess I should of checked out it, researching only 2400 Marlin 336 were made in the 356 making pretty rare, if you ask me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 323 View Post
    I guess I should of checked out it, researching only 2400 Marlin 336 were made in the 356 making pretty rare, if you ask me.
    I saw that figure listed on GunBroker and smiled. I do not have the actual numbers in front of me, but I saw a seller give that figure as well. I suspect that the seller is either misinformed or perhaps that particular model was limited to that small run. The 356 is/was not very popular, but I have seen a good number of them. I've seen way too many to believe 2400 to be the total production number and I think that 4-500$ is way cheap for such a " rare collectible."

    I stumbled across this on the net and thought the readers of this thread may find it interesting:

    http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...in.html?cat=11

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    Default 1Cor15:19

    Thanks for the article, that was a great read!
    Ralph

  17. #17

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    I like the cartridge and have used it. I have shot quite a few PWS deer with the rifle. I recovered a 200 gr Horn Spire Point form a quartering shot at about 125 yds. I shot a few with 250 gr speer, quite close. No blood shot meat, could eat right up to the hole. I have a 700 Rem with a Mcgowan barrel I had put together over 30 years ago that is well hunted with. I bought a new Ruger last year.

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