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Thread: An Interesting Loading Issue

  1. #1
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    Default An Interesting Loading Issue

    Facts:

    1. The gun is a mint, tight Webley Mk IV 2" in 32 S&W Long
    2. The load was 2.4 grains of Unique under a 98 Grain LRN, or 2.0 grains of Bullseye under the same bullet. Both are well within spec for the cartridge
    3. The Unique showed extreme muzzle flash and poor accuracy. The Bullseye was extremely accurate. Neither load had recoil subjectively any more than factory ammo.
    4. The Brass used was once fired Magtech. On both loads, there were numerous brass cracks near the base, some vertical, some horizontal, with some of the horizontal ones showing gas blow.
    5. The Magtech did not exhibit cracks on firing the factory loads. No cracks have been observed firing Remington factory loads.
    6. Dies used are Redding.

    Thoughts?

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    Ken,

    I've not loaded for this chambering, so my thoughts here are purely speculative. Starting with one of the most likely reasons for case ruptures with relatively new brass...excessive pressure...I'd double-check your charges for the 98 grn bullet, using a couple of different sources.

    None of my manuals list the 98gr LRN, so I can't help you out with that. Speer #13 lists the 98grn HB-WC, which is of course a different bullet. However, it may be noteworthy mentioning to you that the charges for the 98 grn HB-WC are 1.8-2.0 for Unique and 1.6-1.8 for Bullseye. Therefore, your charges might be running too hot.

    Did you chrony the loads?

    Doc (Chuck)

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    I am clueless to this one? The specs match my books as well. Maybe the LRN are sized a little too tight to the bore? Did you check bore and bullet diameter? Not saying you didnt but this sounds like too much pressure but did the primers look OK? Magtech is usually good brass I use it in my 454 casull with about 7 to 10 loading before necks start to crack. Are cases hard to eject? This is very puzzling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Ken,
    None of my manuals list the 98gr LRN, so I can't help you out with that. Speer #13 lists the 98grn HB-WC, which is of course a different bullet. However, it may be noteworthy mentioning to you that the charges for the 98 grn HB-WC are 1.8-2.0 for Unique and 1.6-1.8 for Bullseye. Therefore, your charges might be running too hot.
    Interesting my Speer #14 Shows the same loads for 98 gr HBWC. However, it also lists a load for 98 gr SWC, 2.5-2.8 for Unique and 2.1-2.3 for Bullseye.

    I would think the SWC would be closer to a round nose then a HBWC so I would think the charges used should be okay.

    Have you measured the fired cases for expansion in the cracked area? Might the chambers be over size, maybe try to get a diameter of the chamber near the base and compare it to an unfired round. If that checks out I would try reloading some of the Remington brass, it could be that Magtech had a bad lot of brass get through. I would also cut open both some once fired and second fired brass of both types to see it there are signs of cracks developing. Also look at the Thickness of the brass at the cracks. If the brass is the same thickness at the crack and in uncracked areas it is a sign of brittle brass. If the cracks are thinner then the brass is being over stretched a sign of over size chambers, or poorly formed brass.

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    Good stuff.

    As to the load, I have triple checked it and feel it is well within spec. Ken Waters pet Loads was one of my primary sources.

    Pressure: Primers looked good. The cases popped out of the cylinder (love those Webley ejectors) as smoothly as Mark Begich lies.

    One thing that hanst been mentioned is an oversize die. Thoughts?

    I guess the next test is to load up some Remington Brass...what a bummer...I have to load

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    I would think it more likely that the chambers are big on your "wobbly" and the die might be normal. Probably signs that the brass is being overworked, sized down, expanded up, and perhaps a bit hard, or brittle, compared to your Rem. brass. Just a thought.

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    Sounds to me like a bum lot of brass, coming from moderate loads in a known gun. I'd sure get word back to the manufacturer. Who knows? You might even be blessed with replacements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildalaska View Post
    popped out . . . as smoothly as Mark Begich lies.
    Now that's funny right there!

    Sounds like bad brass alloy or annealing to me also.

    I would not think die or chamber size is likely off enough to consistently crack bases on the first reload and not on the factory loads. If this was the case I would expect some of them to show cracks or budging and hard sizing from the factory first firing.

    I assume the cracks are linear like from expansion and not radial like from an unsupported head right?
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    Default Webley

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildalaska View Post
    Facts:

    1. The gun is a mint, tight Webley Mk IV 2" in 32 S&W Long
    2. The load was 2.4 grains of Unique under a 98 Grain LRN, or 2.0 grains of Bullseye under the same bullet. Both are well within spec for the cartridge
    3. The Unique showed extreme muzzle flash and poor accuracy. The Bullseye was extremely accurate. Neither load had recoil subjectively any more than factory ammo.
    4. The Brass used was once fired Magtech. On both loads, there were numerous brass cracks near the base, some vertical, some horizontal, with some of the horizontal ones showing gas blow.
    5. The Magtech did not exhibit cracks on firing the factory loads. No cracks have been observed firing Remington factory loads.
    6. Dies used are Redding.

    Thoughts?
    My thoughts:
    1. Dump the magtech brass. I have seen other MAGTECH brass, both brand new and reloads, crack upon firing in 45 Colt, in different pistols.
    2. Unique likes crimps. Try the Lee factory crimp die or a heavier roll crimp from your die on the Unique load. Worked for me in both 45ACP and 455 revolvers, MkV1's, S&W, Ruger w/ Unique and 250-265 gr lead bullets. Flash reduced, accuracy increased.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    Now that's funny right there!

    Sounds like bad brass alloy or annealing to me also.

    I would not think die or chamber size is likely off enough to consistently crack bases on the first reload and not on the factory loads. If this was the case I would expect some of them to show cracks or budging and hard sizing from the factory first firing.

    I assume the cracks are linear like from expansion and not radial like from an unsupported head right?
    Linear would be the best way to describe it.

    2. Unique likes crimps. Try the Lee factory crimp die or a heavier roll crimp from your die on the Unique load. Worked for me in both 45ACP and 455 revolvers, MkV1's, S&W, Ruger w/ Unique and 250-265 gr lead bullets. Flash reduced, accuracy increased.
    I have a nice crimp on it. I think that maybe Unique is too slow for a 2" barrel .32. Unique works fine in 7.62 Nagant loads because of the gas seal feature, the deep bullet seating and the obscenely heavy crimp used, gets that powder burning.

    Y'all dont have any spare 265 grain bullets do ya

    PS...le Magtech, she iss gone! Down the brass hole

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