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Thread: Heavier bullets in 300wsm

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    Default Heavier bullets in 300wsm

    Has anybody tried heavier bullets (200 grain or over) in the 300wsm? I've used the 190 Honady Interlock to good effect, but just wondering if the 200 Partition or 220 Hornady round nose would be a better choice for grizzly. Any field anecdotes or even range data is welcome.

  2. #2

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    I've shot some 210 Bergers out of my 300 WSM. 65.5 RL17, 2900+ MV. These were loaded to the lands (too long for the mag) and only about two thirds of the bullet's bearing surface was catching hte neck.

    Mark

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    Smile heavy bullets

    I load the 220 roundnose and carry them in my gun most of the time(300 wsm). I use the same 4831 powder and pretty much fillup the case cause I am not as concerned with accuracy. At the range they hit nearly the same point of aim as my 168 boattails out to 200 yards so I dont need to adjust my scope to interchange the rounds. I think they are much better for bear protection in my mind. I havent shot a bear yet with them but they worked great on a cow moose a couple years ago. I like the trajectory of the 168 better for long range shooting, but honestly the 220 would be a lot better round for getting the job done. I recommend the heavier bullets, especially for bear!
    I come home with an honestly earned feeling that something good has taken place. It makes no difference whether I got anything, it has to do with how the day was spent. Fred Bear

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    heavier is fine but you lose a little speed and you have to back down lowder since you have less case capacity with a bigger bullet. A 180 to 200gr bullet is plenty in a 300WSM as long as you use a tough bullet like a partition or a heavy jacketed bullet. 220gr is pushing it and you may not get good expansion depending on velocity plus more recoil and a slower follow up shot due to the recoil. a 180gr is ideal I think as long as its a barnes mrx or partition the bear will go down with proper shot placment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sollybug View Post
    I load the 220 roundnose and carry them in my gun most of the time(300 wsm). I use the same 4831 powder and pretty much fillup the case cause I am not as concerned with accuracy. At the range they hit nearly the same point of aim as my 168 boattails out to 200 yards so I dont need to adjust my scope to interchange the rounds. I think they are much better for bear protection in my mind. I havent shot a bear yet with them but they worked great on a cow moose a couple years ago. I like the trajectory of the 168 better for long range shooting, but honestly the 220 would be a lot better round for getting the job done. I recommend the heavier bullets, especially for bear!
    No flame intended, but IME, a 180 E-Tip out of a 300 WSM will be more effective than a 220 roundnose. The E-Tip has a more square/blunt expansion which will cause more permanant wound channel. On the plus side for the roundnose or any lead core bullet, shrapnel from expansion will cause some collatersl damage. The E-Tip, with it's much greater velocity and integrity will likely penetrate better and do more over all damage on larger game. On smaller game, dead is dead and bullet selection isn't a big deal as long as it expands reliably. But if I were hunting large bears with a 300 WSM, the 180 E-Tip, or possibly the 200 AB would be my top choices. The GS HV 177 would actually be my top choice because it is an extremely effective killer.

    Mark

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    Smile etip

    MR: I am not familiar with ETip bullets, but when I looked them up they appeared to be the same bullets I use in 168 grains which are nosler bullets that are boat tail and lobalox coated? If so those are great shooting bullets and I love them and use them whenever I want accuracy. But in general larger, slower bullets should have greater penetration than the smaller, faster bullets so they may not be the best option for bears and I would opt for the 220s.
    I come home with an honestly earned feeling that something good has taken place. It makes no difference whether I got anything, it has to do with how the day was spent. Fred Bear

  7. #7

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    Sollybug, E-Tips are a monometal that are a little tougher than TSX's as they are made from a guilded metal rather than pure copper. The lubalox coated bullets are the Ballisitic Silvertips which I shoot out of my 25-06.

    When it comes to penetration, momentum and shape of expanded bullet are the determing factors. Usually larger bullets will be slower but their weight will usually make up for lack of velocity which will give them an edge in mometum. But, if the bullet looses it's mass on impact, the result is less momentum. A partition will retain 60% or more of it's mass, but if it looses 40% it's no longer a 220 g bullet. It becomes a 132 g bullet (shot at a lower MV), in turn losing its momentum. Some cup and core SP's will loose 50% or more on contact. The good side is the shrapnel will cause collateral damage but it might not penetrate as well as the monometal which will retain 99% of its mass, and the E-Tip's blunt expanded frontal area will cause greater tissue destruction in the main wound channel than the typical rounded frontal area of a lead core bullet.

    I think they are both effective bullets, but my choice would be the 180 E-Tip over the 220 round nose


    Here's a pic of their cross section and expanded view...

    http://www.nosler.com/index.php?p=11&b=5&s=140

    Cheers,

    Mark

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    Be interesting to hear if anyone here has shot a couple of large animals with a 220 grain bullet out of a 300 WSM.

    2,700 fps with a 220 out of a WSM is the same as a 220 going 2,700 fps out of a 300 Win Mag. Wouldnt matter to the animal being hit what type of brass case the bullet started out of.

    I just ordered 200, 220 grain Partitions to try in my son's 06 and my 300 WSM. Phil Shoemaker did some tests and reported the 220 gr Partition penetrated as far as the 300 gr Partition out of the 375 H&H.

    220's should be a great choice on moose or bigger bears with ranges up to 250 yards. I'll post some results as far as accuracy in a month or two as I am in the middle of glassing 5 rifles and working up loads for each at the present.
    Tennessee

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    My partner shot his bison [cow] with 220 round nose from the 300 win mag. Two rds neither hit more then ribs, We found both bullets intact and well expanded under the off side skin.
    Alex

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    Thanks for all the replies. I'm looking to bag a grizzly this spring, and this has given me something to tinker with this winter. Having to track a black bear through the alders 180 grain was feeling a bit puny.
    I've been using IMR 4350 and am pretty pleased with it. What else would you recommend for the heavier- asumming I can find it in Anchorage?

    MontanaRifleman: You would take the e-tip over the partition? How does the e-tip compare to the Hornady interlock, in you opinion?

    Snowwolfe: I'm looking forward to your results with the 220's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskazimm View Post
    Thanks for all the replies. I'm looking to bag a grizzly this spring, and this has given me something to tinker with this winter. Having to track a black bear through the alders 180 grain was feeling a bit puny.
    I've been using IMR 4350 and am pretty pleased with it. What else would you recommend for the heavier- asumming I can find it in Anchorage?

    MontanaRifleman: You would take the e-tip over the partition? How does the e-tip compare to the Hornady interlock, in you opinion?

    Snowwolfe: I'm looking forward to your results with the 220's.
    If you're reffering to the 180 Interbond, it looks like a very good bullet but I have no experience with it. It's a bonded core bullet with a thickened jacket to control expansion which I like. But like any lead core bullet, it will shed some material given enough velocity or if it hits bone. The E-Tip will retain all of it's mass except the tip. Like I mentioned, sheding material isn't all bad, but it doesn't help penetration. And as mentioned, I like the expanded frontal area shape of the E-Tip better also - more destructive. I would be more confident going after large bears and tracking through alders with an E-Tip type bullet. Yes, I would pick the E-Tip over the Partition in a heartbeat especially for bear hunting. Paritions were my go to bullet for many years in my 7RM and they did a great job. 100% kills (no bears). I have loads worked up for 180 E-Tips in my 300 WSM and 300 RUM but haven't used them on game yet. The few writeups I have seen on game performance have been good.

    All this being said, most of htes bullets we're talknig about are very good hunting bullets and more than adequate for most of the game we hunt. I happen to think the E-Tip is probably just a little better.

    Mark

  12. #12

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    It seems there has been a lot of speculation on these new E-tips but I have never met or heard of anyone in who have shot any Alaskan game with it. Does anyone have any real world experience or recovered any bullets from a moose or bear.

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    My wife took her brown bear with a 200 grain TSX out of her 300 WSM. One shot and it was a dead flop. Before loading them up I had heard the bullet was too long for the 300 WSM, but it shoots and loads just fine in her Kimber Montana.
    "Beware the man with only one gun; he may know how to use it."

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    Default no moose or bear yet but 2 goats with 180Etips.

    Quote Originally Posted by senecanation View Post
    It seems there has been a lot of speculation on these new E-tips but I have never met or heard of anyone in who have shot any Alaskan game with it. Does anyone have any real world experience or recovered any bullets from a moose or bear.

    2 shots=2kills (goat) with 180grn E-tip in 300WSM with RL-19...cant remember the rest of the data, its at home, sorry. Let me know if interested in more load data.

    One was shot at 75 yards...pass-thru shot...a huge (very surprising) amount of internal damage. The other was shot at about 200yds and the bullet was recovered (I still havent boiled and weighed it but it looks at least 95% retention). This guy had lots of damage as well.

    On a side note, I missed a black bear at about 200 and I recovered that bullet in the tundra/rocks. It looked fully entact with great expansion as well. Hopefully I'll have better data with 180Etip on bears/moose in 2010.

    As everyone already prolly knows, but in reply to Kay9's comment, the solid copper bullets WILL work in your 300WSM's. They just need to be seated deeper, which isnt always a bad thing for those bullets.

    I used a 165 IB on a moose last year outta the 300WSM and had no issues what so ever...just shrapneling and lost weight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kay9Cop View Post
    My wife took her brown bear with a 200 grain TSX out of her 300 WSM. One shot and it was a dead flop. Before loading them up I had heard the bullet was too long for the 300 WSM, but it shoots and loads just fine in her Kimber Montana.
    Kudos to your wife, that's awesome. How big was the bear? And do you know what the MV of the TSX was?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ripnlip View Post
    Hopefully I'll have better data with 180Etip on bears/moose in 2010.
    I hope you do to. Field data on the E-Tips is slow to come in. I hope to get some results with the 180's out of my 300 RUM.

    Congrats on the goats.

    Mark

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    Default Thanks MT!

    I just weighed the etips. 179 on the one from the goat. 178.3 on the one from the tundra/gravel. I am impressed to say the least.

    Oh yeah, 2950 fps on those as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
    Kudos to your wife, that's awesome. How big was the bear? And do you know what the MV of the TSX was?
    Not very big at all...I think 7'6" if I remember correctly. He was aged at 4 years old. I attached a pic.

    My records show the load was 62.5 grains of RL-19 and a MV average of 2723.

    "Beware the man with only one gun; he may know how to use it."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kay9Cop View Post
    Not very big at all...I think 7'6" if I remember correctly. He was aged at 4 years old. I attached a pic.

    My records show the load was 62.5 grains of RL-19 and a MV average of 2723.

    Not a real big bear, but sure is a cool color. You guys look dressed like twins

    Great pic!

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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by alaskazimm View Post
    . Having to track a black bear through the alders 180 grain was feeling a bit puny.
    I've been using IMR 4350 and am pretty pleased with it. What else would you recommend for the heavier- asumming I can find it in Anchorage?

    .
    This is my experience also. Sure I have had many one shot kills with fast light bullets. Once I killed a black bear with one shot by accidentally shooting the carotid artery. But I have also chased animals and had to shoot many times because high velocity plus smaller lighter bullets leaves no room for error. Big heavy slow bullets that leave a nice wound channel, expand on contact and penetrate deeply are what does the job. I would worry that all copper/alloy bullets wont expand enough, arent as heavy with less mass and are going much faster in the lighter weights you are advocating all of which are not good. There is a reason guides like .338, .375 and such......They dont have to chase the animal. A guide may not care what gun you use cause he is going to shoot it as well and I can guarantee it wont be with a 180 grain bullet!

    4350 is always recommended to me also. But its never as accurate in my guns as other powders. 4831 IMR works best so far in my 300wsm and can load every size bullet. I havent tried the RL powders though...
    I come home with an honestly earned feeling that something good has taken place. It makes no difference whether I got anything, it has to do with how the day was spent. Fred Bear

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