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Thread: 270win/270wssm/30-06 managment

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Default 270win/270wssm/30-06 managment

    so here i am off again on recoil management for the kids...

    my daughter shoots a 270 win currently. and we have been looking to get her a lefty soon, ( she is left eye dom, and shoots lefty though right handed) so as i have been comparing shopping, asking...

    the suggestion came up to possible move it up to a 06, as she can grow further .. though the 270 if used right will do TONS here in AK..

    so who can tell me the managed recoiled difference in the 270 and the 06?

    i tossed the 270wssm out to.. as it is a NICE round i have been playing with and kind of enjoy it.

    keeping in mind we are loading for a 14 year old 5' tall girl,

    i already have the 270 loads she likes so not much need to go there but to compare it to an 06

    thanks

    Vince
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    Check out the calculator on this site Link. While there is no way to take into account things like stock fit it should give her an idea of percentage wise how much more recoil there will be. Actually about every thing on that site is worth a read.

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    I'll chime in on the 270wsm. It's a sharp piercing round. My 7mm mag is more comfortable to shoot and for that matter my .338 is only a touch worse. It may only be a 270 but that sharp kick can rattle the teeth.

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    Used to own both (.270 and 06). I think a lot depends on the load and the bullet weights being shot. If you are shooting 130's out the .270 and comparing it against the 06 shooting 180's the difference in recoil is significant.
    Now, if you bump the .270 up to 140's or 150's and compare them against the 06 shooting 150's then its a toss up.
    Tennessee

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    You can load the 30/06 for your daughter like the 270 you have and pretty much have recoil any way you like. You can load light lead bullets to plink with that have practically no recoil at all or 220 full power loads that will rattle your teeth and pretty much everything in between. My question is why?

    IMO there is nothing I would use an '06 for that a 150 Nosler Partition from a 270 Win won't do so I do not presently own a 30/06. I am not saying there is not a difference in their performance, but that for my uses I would rather have a 270. If you want to step up why not use a 338/06 or 35 Whelen to make a noticeable difference in field performance on large game?

    Keep the 270 for your daughter; load her plenty of ammo and let her shoot till heart is content. I think that is a better plan than shifting to a 30/06, but hey that's just my opinion.

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    thats why i am asking as they two cases are for the most part the same size from the shoulder back.


    i have not really ever been a fan of the 06, but that is me.


    i know that i have to move the bolt over the other side for her. and want to make sure it is one she keeps for years when she is oler and moves off...
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  7. #7

    Default Vince

    Your question while valid leaves a lot of open spaces. I know it's hard to fill in a lot of the blanks, especially with children and the future.
    Here's a recoil table which will help you with your question; I believe.

    http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

    The major difference in the rounds is the range of bullets and weight available. The 270 has a limited number of premium bullets when compared to the 30 calibers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brav01 View Post
    Your question while valid leaves a lot of open spaces. I know it's hard to fill in a lot of the blanks, especially with children and the future.
    Here's a recoil table which will help you with your question; I believe.

    http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

    The major difference in the rounds is the range of bullets and weight available. The 270 has a limited number of premium bullets when compared to the 30 calibers.

    LOL Brav, you know those spaces are open for me too.. I never thought it would be so hard to buy somthing for one of the kids...

    she LIKES them all. and has no preference to form her opinon on yet, she lovers her A bolt. but is uncomfortable shooting a righty on the left.

    i agree the 30 call has a wider range for a reloader. but she is afraid of BIGGER guns. with out reason yet.. all the kids know is that louder is bigger and until they are ready to step up to it it is hard to get them to try.

    so i have to make all the decison for her... as she says... that one is nice,, that one is nice, that one has a pretty stock, that one is heavy, that one is nice,...........oh and the UNG HUH, UNG huh
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    If you use microsoft excel, here is a workbook I made to compare recoil of different handloads.
    Just change the data as needed.
    Might not help much unless you handload.
    Doug







    (before it's brought up, I know I don't have any error handling in the formulas. I made it for my own use.)
    Last edited by travelers; 03-19-2010 at 07:39.
    "The older I get, the better I was."

  10. #10

    Default Vince

    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    LOL Brav, you know those spaces are open for me too.. I never thought it would be so hard to buy somthing for one of the kids...

    she LIKES them all. and has no preference to form her opinon on yet, she lovers her A bolt. but is uncomfortable shooting a righty on the left.

    i agree the 30 call has a wider range for a reloader. but she is afraid of BIGGER guns. with out reason yet.. all the kids know is that louder is bigger and until they are ready to step up to it it is hard to get them to try.

    so i have to make all the decison for her... as she says... that one is nice,, that one is nice, that one has a pretty stock, that one is heavy, that one is nice,...........oh and the UNG HUH, UNG huh
    Kids: I've got the same problem with my grandkids. If you don't load Remington makes a "Managed Recoil" ammo for kids and people who can't handle recoil. It is supposed to have 1/2 the recoil of standard ammo. This might make the 30-06 a viable candidate for your daughter. If you load just download the 30-06 to about the power of a 300 Savage and your back in buisness;REMEMBER to mark the boxes. I believe that in a few years she will grow into the rifle. If weight becomes a factor the 7-08 short action will help in that department as well, like a model 700 SPS youth (Recoil Managed ammo is available as well). Then change out the stock as she grows. BUT, lighter rifles have more recoil with the same round.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

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    Quote Originally Posted by brav01 View Post
    The major difference in the rounds is the range of bullets and weight available. The 270 has a limited number of premium bullets when compared to the 30 calibers.
    There are more selections for the .30 caliber clan, but to what end? The 270 is such a cartridge that practically every .277 bullet made is designed for the 270 and it's performance level. Plain vanilla Hornady, Sierra, Speer, etc. will perform admirably on game through the size of moose so long as shot placement is correct (a caveat you'll need to obey with any cartridge). There are numerous makers of "Premium" bullets for the 270 and I can't see complaining that there are only a selection of 110-160+ grain weights. These are ideal weights for the 270 so why would you want more offerings so long as there are enough ideal weights?

    I am not trying to restart a "30/06 vs. 270 thread, which is better?" The question Vince raises concerns recoil and my claim is the 270 produces noticeably less recoil than the '06 and is quite capable on large animals so long as you have excellent shot placement, the proper bullet and the range is not too far (i.e. sufficiently high impact).

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    Quote Originally Posted by brav01 View Post
    Your question while valid leaves a lot of open spaces. I know it's hard to fill in a lot of the blanks, especially with children and the future.
    Here's a recoil table which will help you with your question; I believe.

    http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

    The major difference in the rounds is the range of bullets and weight available. The 270 has a limited number of premium bullets when compared to the 30 calibers.

    okay so can some one Explain the recoil ENERGY and recoil velocity

    energy i am thinking felt?

    now the 270 15gn @2900fps 8lb rifle has 17 recoil energy and 11.7 velocity

    where as the 8lb -06 with a 150 at 2910 fps is 17.6 energy and 11.9 velocity
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  13. #13

    Default Recoil Pad: The Last Line of Defense Against Recoil

    A bit sideways from the cartridge considerations, but I got a new Remington 700 Titanium in .300 RSAUM a couple of years ago. It came from the factory fitted with a very soft "squishy" recoil pad. It is a "Limbsaver" made by Sims Laboratories.

    I won't bore you with lots of details, but I will tell you that every big game rifle I own now has one on it. It really makes a big difference in the "pain" factor. I replaced two Pachmayr Decelerators with them, on a .375 H & H and a .300 Win Mag. The only criticism I have is that they are not real durable against abrasion, so they may not keep their youthful good looks real long under hunting conditions. Tree sap sticks to them, and is hard to remove without damaging the surface.

    I'm not too recoil shy, but I don't enjoy feeling injured after a day at the range. I think you would like the results with the Limbsaver. They make them to fit a lot of the more common rifles, for about $30.

    I'm glad you are keeping the kids involved in the shooting sports. Sometimes I feel like we are an endangered species.

    Best Regards,
    Jim

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    If you handload either the 270 or 30-06 can loaded down into a nice little package, see link. Both also have "managed recoil" factory loads available. Make sure it has a good pad and the barrel isnt to short. I think muzzle blast and noise causes more flinching than recoil. Trigger time with a .22 rimfire is always a good way to learn good habits and break the bad.

    http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Youth%20Loads.pdf

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    Default recoil

    Recoil energy is how much force is hitting you in the shoulder = think 17lb weight dropped on your foot from 1 foot away.

    Recoil velocity is how fast that "jab" is hitting you. = how "sharp" the recoil feels. = how quick the weight hits you in the foot when it's been dropped from 1 foot away.

    I could be completely wrong here, infact I know it's not mathematically correct. but that's how it was explained in simple terms to me and it worked inside my simple brain.




    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    okay so can some one Explain the recoil ENERGY and recoil velocity

    energy i am thinking felt?

    now the 270 15gn @2900fps 8lb rifle has 17 recoil energy and 11.7 velocity

    where as the 8lb -06 with a 150 at 2910 fps is 17.6 energy and 11.9 velocity

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    well it is all moot point from here on out and i thank you all for making it understandable to me to explain to her...


    the decision has been made......

    she picked ( with dads help)

    the ruger Hawkeye 22" with black laminate stock. left handed bolt action rifle......Lefty




    Frontier out fitters is special ordering it for us this week.


    in the only Cal it is avalible in at this time.......








    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

    meet on face book here

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    well it is all moot point from here on out and i thank you all for making it understandable to me to explain to her...


    the decision has been made......

    she picked ( with dads help)

    the ruger Hawkeye 22" with black laminate stock. left handed bolt action rifle......Lefty




    Frontier out fitters is special ordering it for us this week.


    in the only Cal it is avalible in at this time.......








    Vince they have this gun in 2 calibers .270 & 30.06 , is she getting one of each?

  18. #18
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskantrapper View Post
    Vince they have this gun in 2 calibers .270 & 30.06 , is she getting one of each?

    see i was checking if anyone is paying attention....


    she is getting the 06...


    that is a real hard choice for me to agree on as i never really like it...

    but it came down to her Best friend got a Bison filled this year... and she asked will her 270 do it... well 200 gn... 2000fps at 100 yard requirement..

    NO...

    will the 06? dad?


    yes

    then thats the one she wants...


    good thing i am learning the loading...

    and 30 cal is all over the house so far
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    .270 and the 30.06 both use the same case just different neck size.

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskantrapper View Post
    .270 and the 30.06 both use the same case just different neck size.

    but i can not load 200 gn in the 270... she still has her browning Medalion though... i looked into another of those man i got a good deal on the first one


    the laminate stock is a plus... i am glad she went that way. i really don't care for the plastic ones.
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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