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Thread: Where to get current migration info

  1. #1

    Default Where to get current migration info

    Going to Kotz next September and was wondering what the best place is to get info on the current location of the 'bou migration just prior to the hunt?
    Thanks
    Bruce

  2. #2
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    Default ??

    What herd is that? if ya dont mind me askin
    Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "HOLY **** WHAT A RIDE!!!"

  3. #3

    Default herd

    WACH
    Bruce

  4. #4

    Default oh come on

    I know someone out there knows the answer to this.
    Bruce

  5. #5
    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    Default Don't know but...

    I have used the old fashioned telephone to call the game manager for up to date herd dynamics and information. I haven't hunted out of Kotz either.

    Tim

  6. #6
    Member jeff p's Avatar
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    Default loc

    most likely the pilots who fly would be in the know there

  7. #7
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    Default Kotz Hunt

    WACH herd is kinda tough to hunt.

    I was up there a couple of years ago and the local native tribal council implemented a restriction on the hunts you can do as an outsider. As I recall; you can't shoot a 'bou above the high water mark on the Noatak river and the Kobuk is a heck of a ride away. At last recollection; you could hunt the native lands there as long as you had filed for and received a permit from them.

    The best time to hunt them around Kotz is the middle of September. They start their migration when the temp drops and the first couple of good wind storms signals them to start headed towards the coast. The beginning of september you can get pretty decent success around Onion portage, just down the Kobuk from Ambler.

    As far as advice goes for migration locales - the Kotz office of ADF&G would be your best bet for info.

  8. #8

    Default super

    Thanks
    Bruce

  9. #9

    Default tribal lands?

    This is the first I have heard about tribal lands problems. Are you yankin' my chain?
    Bruce

  10. #10
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    Smile nope

    I've been accused of many things, but a chain yanker I am not.

    My uncle used to be the Public works manager there and he was rather miffed in '04 when they initiated the restrictions. His best friend was a co-worker and chair on the commitee that started this restriction and needless to say, sadly, they were friends no more.

    I was a little concerned that we would have problems - they had a helicopter (Doyon Security) patroling the Kobuk and Noatak rivers to see that the rules were enforced. We got buzzed once on the Kobuk and they seemed to have an ongoing presence on the Noatak. The Kobuk river doesn't have the same restriction though.

  11. #11

    Default noatak

    Our transporter is telling us we will be somewhere in the noatak drainage. Not sure what that means. Can I assume you are talking about tribal lands only and not federal or state?
    Thanks
    Bruce

  12. #12
    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    Default

    Oh geesh...............some of you guys!!!!!!
    There are no "tribal" lands in Alaska, except for a couple reservations designated a long time ago.
    What Bruce is referring to is NATIVE CORPORATION land. It is private land just like any other corp, or individually owned land in the US. Many native corp. have closed their lands to hunting except by their shareholders (no bruce you can't buy shares in these corps!). The native corp around Kotz has done just this and they hire a company to patrol their lands and try and evict trespassers.
    Don't worry Bruce.............there's miles of public land around kotz. Your transporter won't be dropping you on native corp land. If I have your transporter name correct.............he's married to a shareholder.
    How is it Bruce that you don't understand what it means to be in the "Noatak" drainage? Have you even looked at a map of the area? The Noatak River is a long river north of Kotz. Any waters that drain into the Noatak River are part of the noatak drainage................you know..............kinda like the mississippi drainage not all that far from where you live?
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
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  13. #13

    Default Drainage

    I'm not as dumb as I look. At least I don't think so:>) I understand what a drainage is. But it is a huge area thus the confusion about exactly where we might get dropped.
    Thanks for all thin onput.
    Bruce

  14. #14
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    Smile Most People Know

    Tribal Lands/Native Corporation Lands.... same dif. Most people up here know that, I didn't realize that Bruce wasn't Alaskan. I'm a BBNC shareholder and know that the Native Corp's can be stiff on the violators regarding access and usage. Just ask the folks that go and dip the Copper River. Many apologies on the misuse of symantics; I'll try to be more accurate in posts.

  15. #15

    Question WACH and Native lands

    Lets look at WACH. Most drop hunters will be put down in the Noatak Drainage somewhere below the Grand Canyon of the Noatak; this is commonly called the Noatak Flats. There is a 5-mile no Fly Buffer along this corridor where you cannot be dropped so the chances are good that you will be put down in very close proximity to a few other camps for sure.

    It is imperative that all hunters do their map work and insist that their transporter tells them where they are being dropped. If your transporter will not tell you where you are being put down and he tells you to leave it up to him you should be worried. The Flats gets pounded because it is close to Kotz and the turn-a-round time is quick for the transporter. The pressure is high in the Flats and you should consider paying a few extra bucks and flying up a little higher to beat the crowds or look at doing a float hunt so you can float away from the other groups.

    The Kobuk Myth. The Kobuk River sits in a National Park (Kiana on up to Kobuk village) and unless you live in unit 23 you are not permitted to hunt in the park. The Kobuk Delta is a possibility but most of it is NANA or native land and it is not likely that NANA will issue you a permit. There is a length of residency requirement to get a NANA permit and you need to be up here a pretty good length of time to get one. So in summary the Kobuk may not fit your needs.

    My advise to anyone who is looking at coming up here to Gods Country and plans on having a fantastic experience is do your homework! This is a big hunting unit (the size of Indiana) and there are lots of great places to explore and a lot of caribou to top it all off. Look at your needs, budget and how much time you have. Talk to, as many people as you can who know this country, understand that you may not bag a bou but will you have a rich experience while youíre here? Get to know your transporter. If he will not take the time to help you plan your trip, find a different transporter. We have some great pilots who have spent a lifetime in this part of Alaska and we have a few who are here for the money and really donít care about your needs. ASK QUESTIONS!

    Ok I have clogged the airways long enough for one day. Drop me a line if you have any questions, thatís what my business is all about.

    Take care,

    Walt
    www.northwestalaska.com
    Northwest Alaska Back Country Rentals
    We have all of your Back Country Needs.

  16. #16
    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by northwestalska View Post

    It is imperative that all hunters do their map work and insist that their transporter tells them where they are being dropped. If your transporter will not tell you where you are being put down and he tells you to leave it up to him you should be worried.

    The Kobuk Myth. The Kobuk River sits in a National Park (Kiana on up to Kobuk village) and unless you live in unit 23 you are not permitted to hunt in the park.
    I would agree that clients request to know where they will be dropped. However, in almost all cases, it is imperative the transporter decide where to take you. Only he is qualified to decide where it is and is not safe to land. He will most likely have a better idea of where animals are. Any client coming into "gods" country, and not familiar with it, such as Bruce, is stuck with the transporter making location decisions for him. No way around it.
    Additionally, while your transporter may say where he hopes to drop your party, other factors(weather, other hunters, game animal locations, terrain, water levels, etc.) may force him to change his plans.
    I hope none of you are expecting your transporter to know for sure where he will drop you this early, when hunting season is so far away.

    Walt, all the maps I've ever seen show Kobuk Valley Park ending several miles below Ambler. Has the boundary changed?
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
    I have less friends now!!

  17. #17

    Default Kobuk National Park

    I believe that the line is right about where the Salmon drops into the Kobuk. That is about 25-30 miles up from Kiana and way below Kobuk Dunes which is miles down river from Ambler or even the Onion Portage.

    I took My River Runner up to the dunes last summer and I was in the park with in 1 hour of leaving Kiana and the Dunes were another 3+ hours up from that. The Onion Portage was still another 45 miles up river from the Dunes and Ambler is better than 1 hour from the Onion Portage.

    So based upon river time I would say no on the park line being anywhere near Ambler.

    Check it out!

    www.northwestalaska.com

  18. #18
    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by northwestalska View Post
    Lets look at WACH. Most drop hunters will be put down in the Noatak Drainage somewhere below the Grand Canyon of the Noatak; this is commonly called the Noatak Flats. There is a 5-mile no Fly Buffer along this corridor where you cannot be dropped so the chances are good that you will be put down in very close proximity to a few other camps for sure.
    The no fly zone is only in effect aug 25 to sept 15. After sept 15, guides/transporters can drop a client anywhere along the Noatak.



    [QUOTE=northwestalska;46553]The Kobuk Myth. The Kobuk River sits in a National Park (Kiana on up to Kobuk village) [QUOTE]

    Your statement, walt, is that the park extends all the way to kobuk village. The maps I've seen show the park boundary well below Ambler, or as I said previosly, several miles. Maybe a better choice of wording would have been "many" miles below Ambler.

    I still think you shoulda hubbed out of Bettles, Bruce!
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
    I have less friends now!!

  19. #19

    Default Marten Trapper.

    I concede to you the boundary issue. I have the Western Arctic National Parklands map in from of me as I type and here are the lines.

    From west to east: The Kobuk Valley National Park extends from about 18 miles east of Kiana Alaska (6 miles down stream of the Salmon) to about 12-15 miles below Ambler Alaska. This would include the Onion Portage area and the Dunes. I stand corrected.

  20. #20

    Default Bettles

    Martentrapper, to late for Bettles. All arangements have been made. For now, help me make the best of this decision.
    Ram aviation with Walt's expert rental service Sept 8-18 out of Kotz.
    Thanks
    Bruce

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