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Thread: open door for wanton waste? northern caribou hunters attempting to circumvent

  1. #1
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Default open door for wanton waste? northern caribou hunters attempting to circumvent

    units 23 and 26a?


    proposition 34 of the arctic regions http://www.boards.adfg.state.ak.us/g...ic09-final.pdf



    is asking to RE WRITE THE definition of edible meat. this in the wake of northern caribou slaughters out side of pt hope...


    if this prop passes it will give free passes to those that were arrested and freedom for any other behind them to say "IT WAS SICK" and take the head and walk away.


    it is PDF and i can not copy the material here


    the directions for public comment are at this begining of this document there is a time limit for written comment.
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    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Been trying to research this more, Vince, prior to sending our comments off. We're gonna strongly oppose it though, and I imagine so will AWT and F&G, and most others. It would open a huge can of worms that would allow wanton waste to happen, using the claim the animal was diseased.

  3. #3
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    Been trying to research this more, Vince, prior to sending our comments off. We're gonna strongly oppose it though, and I imagine so will AWT and F&G, and most others. It would open a huge can of worms that would allow wanton waste to happen, using the claim the animal was diseased.
    mark what first crossed my noodle was that if passed,

    it would set a new precidence over the pt hope trials now.

    there is already to much waste in some areas and the state had allowed it to happen it is time to end it all.
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Default

    Vince, don't want this to turn into another Pt Hope type thread. I don't think this proposal is going to pass, but I'm glad you brought it to everyone's attention. Would be interested to see what the other ACs in northwest have to say about it.

  5. #5

    Default OK

    I agree that persons shouldn't have to havest diseased meat from animals !! SO, now let's require that all caribou shot in 23 & 26 be shot ONLY under the supervision of a Veterinarian !! They are the ONLY persons capable of determining within reason and without doubt that an animal has a disease.
    Makes about as much sense as PROP 5; why land; just shoot caribou out of the window of the plane and land to pick 'em up.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

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  6. #6

    Talking

    Just don't be suprised when after the debate/discussion, there will will be changes made to accomodate that specific region. It will not be applied elsewhere in the state. Community Harvest ideals and management will govern the future of hunting in Alaska. There are many sympathetic ears to the "needs" of locals. It is ingrained in our society now, Make Me Feel Good About Myself.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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  7. #7
    Member fullkurl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    Make Me Feel Good About Myself.....
    "And pay me for doing it..."

  8. #8

    Default Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    Just don't be suprised when after the debate/discussion, there will will be changes made to accomodate that specific region. It will not be applied elsewhere in the state. Community Harvest ideals and management will govern the future of hunting in Alaska. There are many sympathetic ears to the "needs" of locals. It is ingrained in our society now, Make Me Feel Good About Myself.
    The state doesn't have the stomach to prosecute the "poor locals" for wanton waste so they'll just change the rules so they dont have to.
    And we know that all 100 (or so) of the animals at PT. Hope were diseased; RIGHT !!
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    Been trying to research this more, Vince, prior to sending our comments off. We're gonna strongly oppose it though, and I imagine so will AWT and F&G, and most others. It would open a huge can of worms that would allow wanton waste to happen, using the claim the animal was diseased.
    I wouldn't play this down a bit. We all saw what happend with the Ahtna proposal regarding tier II caribou that everyone thought would not go anywhere and now we are stuck with at least for now.

  10. #10

    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by anchskier View Post
    I wouldn't play this down a bit. We all saw what happend with the Ahtna proposal regarding tier II caribou that everyone thought would not go anywhere and now we are stuck with at least for now.
    There was no public outcry on AHTNA's proposal. Just as there will be no public outcry on the latest proposals. Bottom line is that folks are not willing to put their very lives on the line up here for standing up to wrong. Take a look at how Ken Manning was chastised on this very forum and even banned, for speaking out against the Community Harvest Plan. Alaska Hunting has been forever changed in a very bad way, for the direction the BOG has taken us. If you or anyone else chooses to speak out against this, you will be austrosized from society. Hunting is no different than any other facet of our lives, Speak out against what is obviously wrong in every way and you will be silenced. Period
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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  11. #11

    Default True Enough

    There is a moral majority and then there is the EMPOWERED Minority. The 2 seldom serve the same interests.
    LIke PROP-9 how bogus does a prop have to be to get rejected. Hunting caribou out of airplanes, talk about lame.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

  12. #12
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    Default

    There will be an open forum for discussion, then later a private ruling, followed by public ruling, then an outcry. We've all learned that certain state entities don't have to take public opinion into consideration.
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

  13. #13
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    We can now have know your meat classes to go with the know your bow,BP etc classes

  14. #14

    Default Stupid

    Of all the diseases listed as as excuse for wanton waste, only one would be visable to the naked eye ,CANCER. The rest would require a viral study or blood tests to pinpoint. The wounds that are inflicted by other animals is a fact of life for them, "if you don't want'em don't shoot'em".
    It would make my pack walking out much lighter though, with only a cap and horns; "I think my caribou had "chicken pox".
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

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    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    The current criminal cases will not be effected by this proposal. The people charged will be prosecuted under the laws in place at the time the alledged violations took place.

    You guys are getting overworked on this. Submit a written comment to the BoG about this proposal.
    Vince, your on an AC I believe, is your AC commenting on this proposal?
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
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    Martentrapper- I asked 'Vince' on a different thread if he was a AC member.

    He replied, NO

  17. #17
    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Default MT...?

    Can you give us a take on how your AC may vote on this proposal, or how any of the other ones up that way may?

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    Default A lot of work

    You can agree that people shouldn't eat tainted meat, but they are shooting for too broad of a spectrum. There is no way to determine if an animal is truely sick without getting the meat tested. They can't (shouldn't) have anything in the regs that can't be proven and defended in court. If they allowed "disease" into the definition they would have to write a whole new section of the regs defining the process to determine if meat is diseased.
    After reading the proposal I think they sold themselves short, it's clearly written more from emotion than a logical point of view. Atleast that's the way I see it.

  19. #19
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    The current criminal cases will not be effected by this proposal. The people charged will be prosecuted under the laws in place at the time the alledged violations took place.

    You guys are getting overworked on this. Submit a written comment to the BoG about this proposal.
    Vince, your on an AC I believe, is your AC commenting on this proposal?
    Quote Originally Posted by DEDWUF View Post
    Martentrapper- I asked 'Vince' on a different thread if he was a AC member.

    He replied, NO

    thanks DEDWUF, MT. correct i am not a sitting member though i am attending as many meetings as i can... Elections will start for the various AC's in December and finish apx.. Feb? i have hopes of filling a seat if they will have me.

    i will be at the Fairbanks AC this evening at the Aspen as soon as i find out WHERE that is.( LOL )
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  20. #20
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    Default Smoke and mirrors..

    Its bull****.
    Changing laws to accomadate lazy slobs ia a crime itself!

    #1 The "Hunters" , who claim the Caribou were "Sick" werent Hunters at all. There is more to hunting than shooting.

    #2 The Caribou werent examined by anyone with the most Basic Common knowlage about Caribou and its meat condition.From the published pictures only showed what I can see are healthy Caribou.

    #3 ALL Caribou get warble flys under their skin, and when these disgusting little things mature into a fly, they dig their way out of a a Caribou 's back, in late May, early June.
    The Hides remain pussed, as they heal, with sores , shedding hair and new hairgroth comming through, a caribou Hide isnt sutialbe for anything untill late July.
    Thats when we hunt them again for clothing and such, as they are healed and ready for tears of wear.

    You may have come across such, in spring, before the Flys "Hatch"
    This is a skinny , but very healthy caribou Bull Im skinning in mid May. Good for drying , for sure, and 100% salvageable. The little white balls are livingg Fly larve that are growing under the skin. When these emerge, it is not a pretty sight, but the meat is FINE.


    What these idiots have for a defense is pure bull****. I hope they stick to it, and when real Hunters and biologists get to testify, they will be convicted.

    I'm gonna write such up for the proposal.


    I too belive a Hunter shouldnt have to deal with dieased meat. They, like Hunters around here, should be able to recognize a sick animal BEFORE they shoot. If they have indeed shot it, they should deal with it, not leave it. When will that stop??

    If you shoot it, you should be able to take care of it. Not too many years agao, this was legally solved by feeding the dogs....dogs gotta eat too.
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

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