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Thread: Any Sheep? Any Ram?

  1. #1

    Default Any Sheep? Any Ram?

    Not trying to cause a stir here, this is honestly an attempt to increase my knowledge in this area.

    I noticed several hunts for "any sheep" and "any ram".

    Are these intended as meat hunts? Are these areas overflowing with sheep and therefore need hunters to thin the herd?

    Why not require the animal to be a full curl ram?

    I am curious so if anyone can enlighten me I'd appreciate it, thanks.

  2. #2

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    Hunts with conditions such as those reflect a desire to reduce the numbers and/or provide opportunity to hunters due to a stable and/or surplus population, or less than desirable ratio of male /female animals in most cases, generally speaking .

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    those kind of conditions might get me into sheep hunting...


    cause for the pain it would cause me.. if i go UP... one of them is coming down....
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    Thats what my harvest ticket says "any sheep"

    ...........but then again were a meat hunting unit here, and were not many years into being able to hunt sheep again, as their #'s have recoverd from the 91-92 winter die off.
    I saw 4 yesterday, and this summer we passed a fine full curl swimming across the Kobuk river.....the kids really enjoyed that.

    Thinking about it, I saw sheep onthe mountains, above the river, about an hours walk up from our Caribou camp.....Must be because theres alotta Sheep..... I shot a full curl + back in late 80's and it was "ok" but I have eaten young Ewes, and they are good.
    I would pass a full curl for a fat Ewe any day.
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

  5. #5

    Thumbs up

    Quite a few guys need the ewes and lambs to compliment their trophy rooms. I saw one diarama type setting over in Canada, with a whole herd of sheep in the display. Pretty impressive.
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    Member Chisana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobblehead View Post
    Not trying to cause a stir here, this is honestly an attempt to increase my knowledge in this area.

    I noticed several hunts for "any sheep" and "any ram".

    Are these intended as meat hunts? Are these areas overflowing with sheep and therefore need hunters to thin the herd?

    Why not require the animal to be a full curl ram?

    I am curious so if anyone can enlighten me I'd appreciate it, thanks.
    The Chugach any ram hunts are meant to achieve a specific management goal of allowing more larger rams to survive. If you search the archives you'll find quite a bit of discussion on the origins of this permit hunt. It was quite controversial at the time.

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    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    in a nutshell, the logic behind the "any ram" hunt is the theory that many hunters will take the first legal animal they see, thus leaving the more mature rams that are higher, farther and harder to get to to live and breed...
    the current "any ram" hunts are managed to test this theory in areas that have been hit very hard when they were open to general harvest regulations and as a result have low numbers of full curl rams.
    Alaska Board of Game 2015 tour... "Kicking the can down the road"
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  8. #8

    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by homerdave View Post
    in a nutshell, the logic behind the "any ram" hunt is the theory that many hunters will take the first legal animal they see, thus leaving the more mature rams that are higher, farther and harder to get to to live and breed...
    the current "any ram" hunts are managed to test this theory in areas that have been hit very hard when they were open to general harvest regulations and as a result have low numbers of full curl rams.
    I question this explanation. The rest of the areas that experienced similar hits went to draw for Full Curl. I seriously don't think there is a limited experiment taking place in 14C. To test a theory such as this, there would need to be areas over a widespread/disjointed topography, to have any credibility at all. To many other factors can affect a small area that would likely pose supposition beyond belief. I am much more inclined to believe it is because it offers the opportunity to take the ewes and young rams. Period. There is a demand for those critters and this is one area that can stand the take.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobblehead View Post
    Not trying to cause a stir here, this is honestly an attempt to increase my knowledge in this area.

    I noticed several hunts for "any sheep" and "any ram".

    Are these intended as meat hunts? Are these areas overflowing with sheep and therefore need hunters to thin the herd?

    Why not require the animal to be a full curl ram?

    I am curious so if anyone can enlighten me I'd appreciate it, thanks.
    In part the management strategy of any sheep reflects public attitudes. There was a time, and not that long ago, when even the suggestion of “any sheep permits”, for sport hunters would have resulted in a tar and feathering party.
    May not be a bad concept given the number of “red tagged” sheep that are harvested every year; the inability of what may be a large segment of those hunting sheep to identify full curl animals and possible reduction in the number of “hail Mary” shots taken out of desperation.
    Joe (Ak)

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    Member Chisana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    I question this explanation. The rest of the areas that experienced similar hits went to draw for Full Curl. I seriously don't think there is a limited experiment taking place in 14C. To test a theory such as this, there would need to be areas over a widespread/disjointed topography, to have any credibility at all. To many other factors can affect a small area that would likely pose supposition beyond belief. I am much more inclined to believe it is because it offers the opportunity to take the ewes and young rams. Period. There is a demand for those critters and this is one area that can stand the take.
    You can question the explanation all you want, but it was the reason given for this proposal at the BOG meeting. It may not have been the true reason, or may be a flawed theory, but it was the reason.

  11. #11

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Chisana View Post
    You can question the explanation all you want, but it was the reason given for this proposal at the BOG meeting. It may not have been the true reason, or may be a flawed theory, but it was the reason.
    This I can buy! But I will also wager that as we all know, it will stop big rams from getting killed, it will NEVER be expanded to the other areas. That is why I think it is smoke and mirrors type of deal.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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    Member Chisana's Avatar
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    I would be very surprised if it left the Chugach as well.

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    Whats wrong with a Sheep meat hunt?
    Unit 23 Sheep taste pretty good, especially the young ones.
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chisana View Post
    I would be very surprised if it left the Chugach as well.
    I would not. Often management policies are implemented in smaller areas then expanded if accepted by the general public. May not expand much if any for "any sheep" but for "any ram" is a different story. Given the problems both residents and non-resident hunters are having with the "full-curl" definition I will be very surprised if changes are not made to deal with the issue of sub-legal or marginal sheep being harvested.
    Joe (Ak)

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    Member fullkurl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    cause for the pain it would cause me..

    You speak pretty fluent Yoda, Vince!

  16. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by strangerinastrangeland View Post
    Whats wrong with a Sheep meat hunt?
    Unit 23 Sheep taste pretty good, especially the young ones.
    Nothing! That is what ours are - meat hunts.
    Just prefer to have the 90-100 pounds of meat a ram produces as opposed to 50 from a ewe!
    Just a matter of prospective.
    Joe (Ak)

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    Member Chisana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wantj43 View Post
    Given the problems both residents and non-resident hunters are having with the "full-curl" definition I will be very surprised if changes are not made to deal with the issue of sub-legal or marginal sheep being harvested.
    Joe (Ak)
    Expanding any ram hunts would solve the problem of legal sheep determination, but would ultimately result in less hunting opportunity. An area that was any ram would have to go to drawing or else it would quickly be shot out. I fear more drawing areas quite a bit and hate to see new ones implemented. Since they only hurt residents, I expect to see more of them, however. The problem with determining legal rams is no worse than it is with 50" moose in my opinion.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by strangerinastrangeland View Post
    Whats wrong with a Sheep meat hunt?
    Unit 23 Sheep taste pretty good, especially the young ones.
    The problem with "meat hunts" that allow for the harvest of immature rams or ewes - if not restricted to drawing permits - is that the potential for overharvest is great. Allowing only full curl rams to be harvested ensures a healthy breeding population, and therefore protects the future of the resource.

  19. #19
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    Exclamation something else to ponder...

    rumor has it that F&G is looking to a "public/private partnership" to fill the coffers (no i don't have a quotable source, read the writing on the wall and get your own sources if you don't believe me) as opposed to a license fee increase... well that would likely mean auctioning off tags to raise money.
    sheep tags bring big bucks (we all want to be in the "full curl"<trademark> club, right).
    as long as there are non-res opportunities in general harvest areas tags will not auction for more than the price of a guided hunt.
    therefore, in order to command (literally) higher prices, non-res opportunity must be reduced to drawings only, with some tags withheld for the "public/private partnership".
    currently it is unlikely that a general hunt will exclude non-residents, so to justify all non-res tags being draw hunts, the rest of us will have to suffer....

    think about it....
    Alaska Board of Game 2015 tour... "Kicking the can down the road"
    http://www.alaskabackcountryhunters.org/

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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by Chisana View Post
    Expanding any ram hunts would solve the problem of legal sheep determination, but would ultimately result in less hunting opportunity. An area that was any ram would have to go to drawing or else it would quickly be shot out.

    I agree. Any ram is only a possibility if you agree with permits in the first place. And permits of course ignore the studies that show no population differences between national park and full curl only areas.
    “I come home with an honestly earned feeling that something good has taken place. It makes no difference whether I got anything, it has to do with how the day was spent. “ Fred Bear

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