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Thread: Excessive throat?

  1. #1
    Member Akheloce's Avatar
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    Default Excessive throat?

    So, as I bought a new Ruger Hawkeye in 35 Whelen a few weeks ago, I started loading for it. I did the smoked dummy round in order to find the lands, however I was not able to find the lands, and the magazine is the restricting factor anyway.

    Now, I finally got the Hornady (formerly Stoney Point) COAL tool modified case for it, and pushed the Nosler Accubond 225's in, to see where the lands really are. I was able to push the bullet completely out of the case before it seated on the rifling. The COAL would have to be in the 3.75 (or longer) range in order to seat a bullet anywhere near the rifling. Is this something to worry about? It seems really strange to me. I only plan on a COAL of 3.395 anyway, since that seems to be the longest the magazine likes anyway.

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    It may or may not affect accuracy. In my experience long throated rifles have preferred blunt bullets like round noses and semi-spitzers for best accuracy.

    A long throat is also supposed to keep pressures down. I have to agree with this based on my max charges in the same calibers, different rifles with different throat dimensions.

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    I have a Swedish Mauser sniper rifle with a throat deeper than Linda Lovelace and it shoots 5 shot 1/3" groups

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    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    I wouldn't choose a long throat if I were specing out a chamber, but that doesn't mean that you can't get long throted chambers to shoot.

    My first 458 lott had a very long throat, I don't know how long but I never found the lands with a 450 gr X bullet, and that's a long bullet. Anyhow, the gun would put 3 shots into 1 1/2" with iron sights and a military enfield trigger. So the long throat didn't seem to hurt that gun at all.

    I don't know if rn bullets shoot better in long throated rifles or not, but I do know the 250 gr hornady rn .358" is a very accurate bullet.

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    Member Akheloce's Avatar
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    Good deal.

    The jury is out on accuracy, as loads not been properly developed, and barrel is still being broke in. With mag length 225gr AB's and a light load of Varget, I'got an initial group of 4". Cleaned barrel, shot again, 3". Cleaned, shot again, just over 2", then my shoulder had enough for the day. (maybe I should get a brake )

    I'm assuming then that a long throat won't have a problem with premature barrel wear? I've always heard that throat errosion is the #1 cause of barrels getting worn out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akheloce View Post
    Good deal.


    I'm assuming then that a long throat won't have a problem with premature barrel wear? I've always heard that throat errosion is the #1 cause of barrels getting worn out.
    I kinda like having a long throated rifle.

    I can seat the bullet to the base of the neck or to Magazine length and not have to worry about touching the lands. I agree with TomM.

    The way I understand it, barrels wear out at the throat, first, which also causes the throat to lengthen. I dunno if the effect is lessened by a longer throat to begin with. Maybe???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pale White Cracker View Post
    Please do extoll on shooting 5 shot agg's in the .3's ala the Swede.

    here ya go Monte
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    1/2" squares on that target??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pale White Cracker View Post
    Have yet to see a 6.5x55 Swede that wasn't launching .264" projectiles and to agg .3's,you'll need to do MUCH better than the Improved Cylinder cluster offered.

    Or was it a joke?

    Forgot how to measure groups Monte?

    LOL...

  10. #10

    Default Group Size

    Not trying to agree with the mental case, but I have a hard time getting a group in the .3's with that picture too. For comparison, here are a couple groups that measure in the threes.



    The one on the right is a 10 shot 6br group that measures .347, the middle .192, the bottom or left is .332 with four shots into .122.





    This is a 5 shot group from my custom sheep rifle built on a Stiller Predator action. It measures .342". Not trying to start a pissing match, but how do you measure your groups?
    "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."

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    Far edge to far edge, subtract .264. If anyone wants to measure the original, I can bring it into the shop and give ya a set of calipers Bring my whole book in I have some better groups with the Blaser, we can all share. Easier than trying to judge on a blown up photo of a photocopy

  12. #12
    Hammer Wrench
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    Wildalaska,

    You are a bald faced liar,as a best case scenario.

    There are (2) .264 holes of lineal distance,as a minimum,from center to center of the two widest pokes in that Improved Cylinder attempt at Precision.

    That is NOT in the .3's nor close.

  13. #13
    Hammer Wrench
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    Rest assured that a 6.5 Swede's casehead will NOT go center to center there...and that dimension is comfortably way beyond .400".

    For conversation,a hasty 3-poke affair,with a 308Winny empty connecting the dots.



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    Hammer Wrench
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    Virgin Lapua hulls,no prep,Re-15/168A-Max via 308 LTR.



    Virgin W/W 300WSM hulls necked to 7WSM(so as to headspace the false shoulder),no prep,Re-22/162A-Max via 70 Coyote. As an aside,it's no secret I hate Winchesters.



    Re-15/120V-Max,700 Ti 7-08.



    Hasty clusters via virgin Lapua,necked 7-08 in the Ti. '15/120V-Max a given.


    In other words...the usual.(hint)

  15. #15

    Default ????

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildalaska View Post
    Far edge to far edge, subtract .264. If anyone wants to measure the original, I can bring it into the shop and give ya a set of calipers Bring my whole book in I have some better groups with the Blaser, we can all share. Easier than trying to judge on a blown up photo of a photocopy
    Again, I hate to concur with the mental case, but that group has to be at least in the .5's. Not calling you a liar, but there has to be some mistake there. Good shooting rifle regardless.
    "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."

  16. #16

    Default My Bad




    Sorry, my bad. It does show in the high .4's, not the .5's.
    "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."

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    Whats more accurate my calipers on the original or your computer on the copy?

    I say .396, you say .485 thats a difference of .099..or as I learned in biology, 4 of my hairs

  18. #18

    Default Group Size

    Anybody that has been involved in group shooting can see right off the bat that your group is not in the three's. Obviously your rifle shoots well, but exageration only diminishes credibility. This is how we get people all the time talking about how their gun averages (remember an average means MULTIPLE groups) in the .2's or .3's. Then I wonder how the very best group shooters in the world with precise equipment and cartridges designed specifically for shooting tiny little groups can average over .2 and win national and international competitions. I measured your group multiple times with a program designed to measure groups and came up with anywhere from .485" to .510". I gave you the benefit of the doubt. I've had benchrest rifles with the most updated technology and custom everything that I would be lucky to average .3" with. Don't need to measure it with calipers because you can tell by the seperation of the bullet holes it is obviously not in the threes. So we go from saying "I have a Swedish Mauser sniper rifle with a throat deeper than Linda Lovelace and it shoots 5 shot 1/3" groups", to producing a photo of a SINGLE group that is said to be .396 (not 1/3 which is .333) that is obviously over .450 and probably when properly measured over .5. However you want to justify it, it's a lot more than 4 of your hairs on the credibility scale. Here is a link to arguably the most competitive group shoot in the world, the Super Shoot. Take note of the Final Thoughts comments. http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com...final-results/
    "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."

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    Like I said blackfoot, come on by with your calipers, I have a whole book of groups....

    You evidently are into measuring LOL. I'm happy with mine.

    Hey Big Slick...how long before you get banned again LOL

    Take note of the Final Thoughts comments. http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com...final-results/
    Very good thoughts although sort of silly in connection with the discussion. My rifles are capable of 1/4" groups all day long. Unfortunately, I'm not, I just shoot for fun

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildalaska View Post
    You evidently are into measuring LOL. I'm happy with mine.


    Very good thoughts although sort of silly in connection with the discussion. My rifles are capable of 1/4" groups all day long. Unfortunately, I'm not, I just shoot for fun
    Again you turn to personal insults when your "facts" are questioned. If you aren't into measuring why do you have a whole book of groups? Yeah, I get that your infantile smug comment referred to something else. If you were that comforable you wouldn't surround yourself with girls half your age that can't tell the difference. You have been given opportunity to measure again or correct the measurement if it were a legitimate error. I don't care in the long run that you exaggerate, because I don't and won't do business with you. But your obvious exaggerations, put downs of others, and inflated ego just might be a red flag to others. Very few rifles are capable of 1/4" all day long regardless of who is steering them. Tony Boyer goes through multiple barrels each year trying to find a "hummer" that is capable of that. I'm happy you have more than one. Good luck to ya, you are one notch above the mental case that keeps getting banned. I'm afraid we might see him on the news some day.
    "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."

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