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Thread: UHMW adhesive? what do you use?

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    Default UHMW adhesive? what do you use?

    I am doing more and more research about how to put my bottom on and it is getting me more and more confused haha so it has came to me threw many people that i want to use a tappered bolt counter sunk with a seal washer and locking nut on the other side or pluggs???? I still cant figure out what "plugs" are or how to do it haha but one think I just CAN'T get out of anyone is what is the name of the adhesive you use to glue the uhmw to the bottom? someone please help. how do I make this bullet proof. new ideas welcome but ofcourse looking for the "been proven and still working the best" method. please help

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    the plug method is done by drilling a pocket in the uhmw about 2" to 2 1/2 " . this pocket id "milled " into the uhmw about half way through, then a hole about 1 inch is drilled in the center of the large pocket all the way through, then a dimpled aluminum washer( o.d. the same as the id of the pocket) is layed in the pocket and plug welded to the hull, then a uhnw plug is glued in the hole and sanded smooth. fairly labor intensive but it doesn't leake like bolts eventualy may, also gives the uhmw a little wiggle room. It is a real pain in the ass to remove if you need to do hull repairs.
    Gluing uhmw is trickier than it sounds, glue just doesn't stick to uhmw, the manufacturers that glue it to the hulls use a proprietary proces and use a type of uhmw that is manufactured with a mesh type fabric on one side for the glue to stick to they then use thier proprietary glue that adhears well to aluminum and the mesh, they then put it together and vaccum bag the hull, kinda like a giant "seal a meal" to clamp the uhmw to the hull til the glue sets. so far it seems to hold up very well
    with enough abuse countersunk bolts will pull through the uhmw, and the uhmw will stretch, when it stretches it wont shrink back to the right shape.
    make sure to keep the front edge of the uhmw well above the water line, if you get water under it at speed it will peel bolts or plugs.

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    thank you so much... the plug way sounds like the way to go. so now how do i get the plugs and what do i use to glue them in? thanks for the help

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    I would like to know how thick the UHMW need to be for the plug method.

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    Default what I described

    The plug method is what I described earlier. I heard there is an outfit in ANC that is doing it commercially. It can be done on your own.
    I don't know where to find dimpled aluminum washers that size. OZ AK built his own. I've made steel dimpled washers using a tapered head bolt, a socket larger than the bolt head, and a vice. I'm sure you can do the same with the aluminum washer, that is if you can find a washer that big.
    When guys say they are gluing UHMW, that is a bit of a misnomer. Guys that are sealing it are using a silicone type sealant. 3M makes a good one. Again, OZ AK knows as much as anybody about it. Glue won't work. Period.
    You'll need at least 1/2" UHMW for the plug method to work well. Anything thinner won't give you enough "lip" to grab.
    The bolt method is easier and faster than welding in the plugs. It is also easier to take the UHMW back off if you need to repair or modify the bottom of the boat later.

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    Thanks, for the information, it been a long time sense I put uhmw on the bottom of my airboat. I used screws and never had problems so I never kept up with the newer methods.

    I donít know if this will help, Iíve made big aluminum washers, using a hole-saw. In those days we did not plug the small holes, I wonder how the plugs will holed up to rocks.

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    Default Sealant

    From OZ AK's previous post: "plastic is sealed to the bottom of the boat with 3M 5200 polyurethane sealant"

    The weld washers are available at CAC plastics in Wasilla by the way if you don't make your own.

    One pro of bolting it versus using weld washers is the eventually the UHMW will need to be replaced. Grinding out the washers to do this will probably be a real pain.

    Hope that helps.

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    Heres a link to the elevator bolts that are holding my poly on.

    http://www.fastenal.com/web/products...0144618&ucst=t
    PEOPLE SAY I HAVE A.D.D I DON'T UNDERSTA.....OH LOOK A MOOSE !!!

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    I don't think you'll find anything that will truly work as an adhesive on UHMW. You can use bedding compounds to seal the bolts or rivets that hold the UHMW on, but I don't believe there is any product out there that will stick to UHMW as an adhesive.

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    Very good info thanks to veryone. So elevator bolts is what I'm going with fi sure I'll post pics when it's done

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    Oh and for the adhesive part of it I am not looking for something that will glue it Down replacing the need for bolts or rivets... I guess I should of added that in haha . No I'm just wondeing what I should put between? Or should I just bolt it dry? Thanks again

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    Default a little help please

    I looking for a way to reinforce my last third of my jon boat! It has gotten beat up pretty bad. I still have to fix this years holes. I thinking this is a good alternative? Does anyone sell this stuff locally! Can i install myself? what would the after effects be?( getting on step) since I only have a 16ft w/40 hrs yama? thanks ahead of time!

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    UHMW add little strength to a bottom of a boat, the reason itís used is because aluminum does not slide over rocks. You will need to reinforce the bottom and make sure there is no pockets before you add UHMW.

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    Default UHMW adhesive

    I have a small marine products business and I work with a lot of HDPE & UHMW I have had very good luck with 3M Scotch Weld 8005. I have not used it with UHMW but the spec sheet says you can. I use it with cutting board and seaboard which are HDPE products they are all of the same family of plastics that usually do not glue well. I make fillet / rigging tables for boats with Seaboard. Ths 3M 8005 is very expensive I pay $30 for a small 2 part tube and the calk gun to apply it ran about $100. Here is a link to the 3M info.

    Mike

    http://www.3m.com/intl/kr/img/adh/ad...ies/DP8005.pdf

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    Hi There I Us A Tapered 1/4 -20 Stainless Steel Screw And I Drill And Counter Sink It And I Use A Drill Tap It Drills And Taps The Hole At The Same Time Then Put The Screw In And Put A Flat Washer And Nylock Nut On It. Just Got Back From The States With 100 Ft Of 3/8 UHMW 8 Ft Wide If Any One Is Needing Any. I Highly Suggest You Do It Right Because If You Don't You Don't Want To Be In The Boat When It Comes Off. It Like A Jet When They Do The Reverse Thrusters To Stop The Plane, Some One Will Get Hurt. Skip

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    Default Gundog

    Interesting that you have a product that works on UHMW. Tell me a bit more. All PE is not the same but as you state the 3M product should do UHMW. What size pieces of PE are you gluing? How thick? And to what surface?
    I was looking for my UHMW spec book, specifically the part on expansion but now can't find it. I don't recall how much an 8' sheet x 3/8" will expand from -20 degrees to +80, but it is substantial.
    What if anything have you seen regarding expansion of UHMW or PE in your applications?

    And I have to agree with Skip, losing a leading edge of UHMW on the bottom of a boat could ruin your whole day!

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    I can only comment on what I have used the glue for. I build fillet/rigging tables and on the bottom of the tables I glue and screw a mount to the bottom. I am glueing 1/2" Seaboard and it has worked great for me. I don't need to use the screws but it is faster for assembly and I would not trust just the screw connection these mounts can have a lot of stress put on them. The tables are a fairly new product so I don't have a lot of long term data but so far no failures of this connection. If you would like to see I will get some pictures together and post them.

    I experimented with a couple scraps when I first got the glue and could not pry the pieces apart after gluing so for me and my application that was good enough for me.

    I machine a fair amount of UHMW for another product but I do not glue it so I do not have any info for UHMW. I remembered seeing it was on the sheet for use with it.

    Mike

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    What size pieces of PE are you gluing? How thick? And to what surface?
    I am gluing 1/2" Seaboard together it has a slightly rough finish the mating surfaces are not machined smooth. I have a flange type part that is 3" wide and 12" long I have been making a zig zag bead around the part and mating them holding together with scews. I use the screws because it is difficult to clamp the HDPE together the stuff is slick as heck.

    Mike

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    Default love to see it

    You betcha. Love to see what you are doing. Would be cool. And the caveat.... Not questioning what you are doing or your successes. Just working out in my mind how things come together. Maybe, at least for your application, you found a better mouse trap and others can learn from it too.
    That my friend is the beauty of it all.

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    Default Linear expansion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ak River Rat View Post
    Interesting that you have a product that works on UHMW. Tell me a bit more. All PE is not the same but as you state the 3M product should do UHMW. What size pieces of PE are you gluing? How thick? And to what surface?
    I was looking for my UHMW spec book, specifically the part on expansion but now can't find it. I don't recall how much an 8' sheet x 3/8" will expand from -20 degrees to +80, but it is substantial.
    What if anything have you seen regarding expansion of UHMW or PE in your applications?

    And I have to agree with Skip, losing a leading edge of UHMW on the bottom of a boat could ruin your whole day!

    The delta in the linear thermal expansion between a 72" piece of UHMW and a 72" piece of aluminum over a 60 degree F range is approximately 0.3". This is a rough estimate for the type of UHMW and aluminum will change the thermal expansion a bit. IMO this is enough to rule out glue as the sole method of attachment.

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