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Thread: Respect?

  1. #1

    Default Respect?

    Perhaps the "down side" to hunting becoming "too" easy is the failure to generate respect for the animals harvested. That may well explain, at least in part, the "ho hum" attitudes by some, about the seriousness of wounding game or even is some cases harvesting animals under at best questionable circumstances.
    The "wham bam - thank you mamam" attitude of some does little to engender that time a hunter quietly looks at the animal just harvested an contemplates the gravity of the action just taken.
    Joe (Ak)

  2. #2
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wantj43 View Post
    Perhaps the "down side" to hunting becoming "too" easy is the failure to generate respect for the animals harvested. That may well explain, at least in part, the "ho hum" attitudes about the seriousness of wounding game or even is some cases harvesting animals under at best questionable circumstances.
    The "wham bam - thank you mamam" attitude of some does little to engender that time a hunter quietly looks at the animal just harvested an contemplates the gravity of the action just taken.
    Joe (Ak)

    NOW JOE; Just what do you expect from these guys today?

    gee wiz man... you are asking a lot for them to gather and understand all at once here...

    now you know as well as i do that most these younger lads have come to us and ASKED what kind of firearm should they buy for learning how to hunt...


    and time after time they have been told, get the biggest whiz banger you can shoot... now mind you there are a few of us that have GONE rouge.. and mentioned SHOT placement is extremely important.


    but never mind them of us that say that...


    there is also some that mentions spending time in field... but you know that gets in the way of LIFE at home with your pals...

    time to learn your area... well thats hard to do when you have to race over the hill because a wheeler just passed yours... you know as well as i do that IF YOUR NOT FIRST... it don't count...

    so come on Joe... cut them some slack.. you know that we were all young and impetuous at one point... I MEAN REALLY!!! you KNOW Fish and Game are going to GROW another moose if one dies on accident... now aren't they... so there really is NO harm to being lazy in the field... no harm at all... well PICK a new one off the tree next spring...
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    You contemplate on your sucess on catching animals ,too?

    I just contemplated my last catch with gravy...and a bit too much pepper is what I determined....

    Even though hunting is a daily/weekly routine, for me I never tire of it or lose interest.

    Really, I'm not that "Thoughtfull', but very much enamored. I love to watch and study animals. Caribou are very imnteresting to me, an if I dont need to eat aone, I do really enjoy just watching.
    I think I actually get irritated when someone posts"Stupid Caribou" or the like, 'cause I know they arent..~~LOL!!~~
    Same with Wolves. Magnificint and beautifull, I see them shy around our camps in the summer, and find it awsome that they watch us too.... but I do persue them with no mercy in winter...like old rivals with a respect for each other, sometimes...

    I reaspect anything that lives outside 24/7 from birth to death, I just dont get all teary eyed.
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

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    Moderator hunt_ak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strangerinastrangeland View Post
    I reaspect anything that lives outside 24/7 from birth to death, I just dont get all teary eyed.
    Perfect......

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by strangerinastrangeland View Post
    You contemplate on your sucess on catching animals ,too?

    I just contemplated my last catch with gravy...and a bit too much pepper is what I determined....

    Even though hunting is a daily/weekly routine, for me I never tire of it or lose interest.

    Really, I'm not that "Thoughtfull', but very much enamored. I love to watch and study animals. Caribou are very imnteresting to me, an if I dont need to eat aone, I do really enjoy just watching.
    I think I actually get irritated when someone posts"Stupid Caribou" or the like, 'cause I know they arent..~~LOL!!~~
    Same with Wolves. Magnificint and beautifull, I see them shy around our camps in the summer, and find it awsome that they watch us too.... but I do persue them with no mercy in winter...like old rivals with a respect for each other, sometimes...

    I reaspect anything that lives outside 24/7 from birth to death, I just dont get all teary eyed.
    Has nothing to do with getting "...all teary eyed..." but, does have to do with not "trivializing", and given the "culture" in which you seem to be immersed, should think that would be evident - but - times are changing everywhere.
    Joe (Ak)

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    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    i think guided hunts is a great example of the whambam...thank you mam. so often i see guys that show up and want it and want it now so they can check it off the list and move on to the next SCI banquet and a little plaque on the wall.
    current threads on ranch hunting has something to do with that as well...
    i'll say alot has been lost over the last 15 years on the actual respect side of hunting. ie...the predator control methods used in unit 16...no one respects a black bear in unit 16 if they try to fill a freezer from there...
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    Jake,

    This is exactly why my husband no longer guides, (unless he feels like he wants to)...Its the babysitting he can't handle and things mentioned here.
    Sure, I love my large bear, but he also fed two families. My hat's off to any guide (or anyone else for that matter) who can sit out in the field with some of these folks with this mentality and not say a word....I couldn't do it. In the mean time we'll teach our family members on the way we think things should be done and hope that they follow suit when they get older. As far as I'm concerned the only way I can make a difference is by being proactive and teaching the ones who want to be taught




    Quote Originally Posted by BRWNBR View Post
    i think guided hunts is a great example of the whambam...thank you mam. so often i see guys that show up and want it and want it now so they can check it off the list and move on to the next SCI banquet and a little plaque on the wall.
    current threads on ranch hunting has something to do with that as well...
    i'll say alot has been lost over the last 15 years on the actual respect side of hunting. ie...the predator control methods used in unit 16...no one respects a black bear in unit 16 if they try to fill a freezer from there...
    "In the interest of protecting my privacy I will no longer be accepting Private Messages generated from this site and if you email me, it better be good!"

  8. #8

    Wink

    Dunno,
    About what you write. I am not a farmer and never "harvested" a animal. Everyone of them, I have had to kill.

    As far, as it being "too easy", well.....I think we know full well who has been the biggest contributors/enablers of the Hunting Community to make it that way. e.g. Who/how many would leave the fields of Kansas, the penthouses of NYC, the pastures of Texas, etc, etc, on a Bear/Moose Hunt in the wilds of Alaska without someone enabling them? Sure the friends, family, air taxi's, hotels, lodges and car rentals do in some modest way contribute to it, but the biggest factor absolutely, without a doubt, bar none is the Guide(s). Other's might feel different about it though, this is just my opinion.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    i've killed stuff, then i've harvested it. no point killin' it if you don't harvest it...

    i'll agree to a point that guides are part of the problem, but i'll agree wholeheartadly that fenced/garunteed hunts contributed more to the loss of respect of hunting/animals than fair chase guides ever will.
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    Default It is nothing new

    Since time began, some cared, some did not. Some lived to experience life, to experience the journey, some forgot that the journey was what it is all about and only cared for the moment.
    Hunters are no different, unfortunately. I personally don't understand the ambivalence that we see, and read about, even on these forums.
    There is wisdom in what you say about understanding the gravity of what it is we do and more, taking responsibility for it. As simple as killing is, I find it difficult to not take time to appreciate the gift that was given me and to reflect on a life that is gone.
    Teary eyed? No. Melancholy? No. Maybe thoughtful. Maybe thankful.
    Good topic. This should be an interesting read, and may provide some insight to our peers.
    Thanks

  11. #11

    Default

    This is perfect in relation to my moose hunt this year.

    In summary:

    The first night of hunting I called in sub 50", but 3 brow tine legal bull. Due to our respective locations, terrain and flora ( in this case burned, literally black spruce) and 4-5 foot tall grass between us for 300yards, I passed on taking a shot for the very reason you mention; respect for the animal and my responsibility as a hunter.

    After hearing and seeing this bull come in and his subsequent curiosity toward the source of my call, he began feeding on nearby sparse willow. When his head was down I crept closer trying gain an advantage in elevation and shot angle. The moose was in an opening about the length of 2 moose end to end between dense trees .Eventually I was able to cut the distance to about 200yards all the while trying to keep him interested in staying or exposing himself more. It became obvious he was losing interest and was about to leave the area, thus eliminating any chance for a shot.

    I made a cow call as he was moving into the trees and away from me, he turned back into the opening and stood at a slight quartering (almost straight toward me)angle to my right, in 4-5 foot tall grass, some visible sparse small trees ( and perhaps some concealed small trees in the grass?). 200yards offhand and a marginal target at best now. I found a small birch tree near to small spruce tree, wedged myself between the 2 trees and settled my rifle in the "Y" of the birch ready to rock. All I needed was for him to turn to his left (my right) and present a full broadside shot angle. If he made the turn he would have gained slight elevation and stepped into thinner and shorter grass presenting a perfect shot opportunity. I am sure the moose had ESP.

    Suddenly the moose turned, no, spun quickly to his right and gave me the full moon while slowly walking away. I made a dash for the thick trees to my left in hopes and getting in position to take a close range shot ( I could not see him during this time), he was gone. The wind was in my face, from him toward me and I am positive I was never identified as a threat by the moose, he was moving as the moose in his element.

    When I returned home my 9yr old nephew was there and we got into conversation about moose camp/hunting. He mentioned how he thought dad (my bro n-law) "ignored a moose that walked through camp". "Dad went on to explain about his bum knee, failing light and other pertinent circumstances that prevented him from shooting the moose (a cow which the sis in-law had a tag for). I seized the opportunity to share my recent decision not to pull the trigger and the "why" of it.

    As a hunter I have an obligation to make every effort ensure a clean, quick and humane kill, whatever the game species, out of respect for the animal, respect for other hunters, and respect for myself.

    I explained also the consequences of wounding an animal, tracking and hoping to recover (if a person even will recover) a suffering animal etc.

    I know a number of people who would have emptied their rifles trying to take that moose, I told him, but I don't hunt with them and none of them shoot as well as I do ( not that I claim to be a great marksman by any means). Always keep in mind your responsibilities as a hunter.

    Sorry for being long-winded, but is was a conversation that was very important to me and I think to my nephew, one I think he will remember.

  12. #12
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    I still know a couple of old guides that won't do less than a 21 day hunts with clients and they still live good. Two younger ones in the family(late 40's an 50's) will do 14 days hunts and some 10 days but not for trophy game and yes they make the client pass on trophy bears if its a short hunt. I figure each animal I take removes about five offspring from the future.My eyes still get glassy when I take a bear and I hope they always will or I'll quit hunting them. I respect deer for their efforts to live long enough for me to take them and they are hunted for meat only now and not a thrill,my first falling almost fifty years ago.In all of nature its humans I fine easiest to have little respect for and each on their own merits.
    Today many in the woods think its a fashion show.I'll take wool and duct cotton over the new stuff and a Wheland leanto over an artic oven every time as it lets me feel more of nature.

  13. #13
    Member Chisana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wantj43 View Post
    Has nothing to do with getting "...all teary eyed..." but, does have to do with not "trivializing", and given the "culture" in which you seem to be immersed, should think that would be evident - but - times are changing everywhere.
    Joe (Ak)
    Quote Originally Posted by BRWNBR View Post
    i think guided hunts is a great example of the whambam...thank you mam. so often i see guys that show up and want it and want it now so they can check it off the list and move on to the next SCI banquet and a little plaque on the wall.
    current threads on ranch hunting has something to do with that as well...
    i'll say alot has been lost over the last 15 years on the actual respect side of hunting. ie...the predator control methods used in unit 16...no one respects a black bear in unit 16 if they try to fill a freezer from there...
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntress View Post
    Jake,

    This is exactly why my husband no longer guides, (unless he feels like he wants to)...Its the babysitting he can't handle and things mentioned here.
    Sure, I love my large bear, but he also fed two families. My hat's off to any guide (or anyone else for that matter) who can sit out in the field with some of these folks with this mentality and not say a word....I couldn't do it. In the mean time we'll teach our family members on the way we think things should be done and hope that they follow suit when they get older. As far as I'm concerned the only way I can make a difference is by being proactive and teaching the ones who want to be taught
    At the risk of going overboard with multi-quoting, I am going to say that these are some outstanding posts.

    The whole idea of the various "slams", medals, etc. gets pretty annoying at times. I think these attitudes have always existed in hunting, but we are so exposed to them now through marketing and the interweb.

  14. #14

    Default Interesting post Joe

    I have NEVER not stopped and gave thanks for every animal that I, my family, or my friends have taken. When I was much younger, it was more about the kill, now it is more about the entire adventure and being thankful that I can do what I do. Don't get me wrong, I love hunting and killing as much as the next guy, but am more apt to "walk away" from an animal without pulling the trigger. I walked away from a big bull moose a few years ago and my wife asked why?? I really didn't have an answer except for the fact that it wasn't his day to die. I even stop and say thanks for every critter that happens to get caught in my traps or snares. I do not get teary eyed, but am thankful that I am able to do what I do and to share it with others.

  15. #15
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Default respect of what the animal or the process of collecting it?

    here this is take off the forum front page...
    Threads: 49,227, Posts: 533,428, Members: 25,158, Active Members: 5,528
    Welcome to our newest member, lmno572
    has anyone other then my self noticed the rapid increase in members? or how about the sudden influx of returning members last August... and now suddenly quite...

    oh wait....


    last August started hunting season... 1000 more people came back... picked your brains and left with the knowledge... not to be heard from at the end of the season... just like they did last year.

    they came in and USED the forum to their advantage and left with out putting back into it.


    you know? last year my first ass chewing by Brian M was an argument with a young military kid that was pissed he had to haul out his liver in 13.. on a bou...

    he was even more pissed that i would suggest he " GIVE IT AWAY"

    to paraphrase.... " i am not going to work my ass off to share with some lazy person"


    lazy person? how about that person that can't hunt due to financial hard ship or single parents... or even just the food bank... HOW HARD is it to GIVE?


    respect?

    Joe people rarely respect them selves any more. there are so many with insecurities, poor self esteem, and the need to SHOW they are worthy of calling them self a hunter. why should they respect you? or ME? or the game they shoot?

    people are conditioned with that mentality that THEY MUST succeed.

    I honestly owe every bit of my 20+ years as an adult hunter to the fact that i share ... part of EVERY animal i harvest...i thank god for every one, I work my ass off to ensure it is cared for... this year i left ALL of my belongings out with 2000 other hunters running around to care for my meat.



    SHARE, patience, understanding... acceptance..

    all virtues,

    expected by all, practiced by so very few.


    once in awhile i meet a few that honestly stick their necks out to help another..
    the last week i have seen four different members offer them self or service to assist another person they have never met.

    some offered to haul wheelers for a lady if she buys one...

    others offered to loan firearms to folks head out to hunt

    one offered donations to assist some one purchase...

    you know what?


    THAT USED TO BE THE NORM in Alaska.

    it no longer is

    . Now days it is the exception for a person to willingly offer to HELP. or show they CARE




    my mom taught me not to talk to strangers... she also taught me to NOT be disrespectful to them..

    now 10 year olds feel free to call me by my first name.. 6 years olds say they will kick my butt if i don't get them somthing... i have no issues barking at my kid or yours.... thats the way our parents were.... but

    today it is less excepted.

    today... the kids have all the power

    today.. is all about ME..

    hunters? users? competitors.....sport.

    lets KEEP giving it to them... maybe they will learn tomorrow...

    i am not holding my breath... i can try... but the subtle difference i can make in my Witt, advice, sarcasm, or direct involvement can only effect those that have some sort of ability to

    share, show patience, understand, and acceptance of the situation and lifestyle.
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  16. #16

    Default

    I believe you need to respect the animal you kill. And respect yourself! Show that animal respect by cutting the d**mn thing up and putting it in the freezer to feed your family and not just stuffing its head on some wall - poor choice for showcasing your disposal income. I’ll make a stand here and now to say in any TV program that ever marks my name it will never be centered on trophy hunting and I have no respect for those that want to “check” it off their list. That said, we did take a 62" bull moose this fall and had hoped for a 70 + but...that's what we got and got we do...in da freezer!

    I have no problem with those that can afford that Alaska "bucket" list hunt coming to Alaska and hiring GOOD guides to guide them on that once in a lifetime hunt. I support it and promote it.

    Guides - isn’t that a profession like law enforcement. It only takes a few bad apples to give the entire bunch a bad name and they BOTH have enough challenge in finding fans - especially those that rape and pillage one area at a time and move on to the next with no RESPECT for the natural resource. And you “guides” know where you fall into that category. You know if you’re scum or not. I’ve met as many above board guides as I have scum and the scum need to be shut down with no chance of ever guiding in this state again. Zero tolerance, none of this coddling stuff. That’s the only message these folks understand. I like guides. Good ethical guides and will be producing a TV series on Alaska guides so only GOOD guides should apply.

    SCI ALASKA - another hot bed. Please remind me again WHAT they have done for the Alaska resident hunter? Education courses for the youth? Lobbying local BOG or state legislation? Or is it just about buying their raffle tickets to the local yearly banquet? Talking about a cluster blind leading the blind!

    Harvesting vs. killing vs. farming vs….WHATEVER! Look, some of us have been around so long we can’t remember where we put our pee jar! Who cares what you call it. That’s the great thing about living in America, independent to do as you wish within the law and hopefully…get this, ethically and within respect.

    This summer I have been from one end of this great state to the other, exotic hunts to simple overnights, and for the most part I have met nothing but upstanding folks on ground and while travelling. I have discovered, as I thought I would, how vastly different each community operates within their own region and how one issue “here” may not even register on their scale of survival.

    If we’re worried about instilling lifelong skills and ethics upon our youth or the inexperienced, or those WAMBAM folks, than get off the couch and do something about it. Couch potatoes need not apply.

    Its time to call the kettle black!

    Stranger, we love ya man! Keep it real!
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  17. #17
    Member walk-in's Avatar
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    Default Vince....

    Your post is too long to quote, and I'm not computer literate enough to know how to only quote part of it without manually deleting the parts I don't want, but you're right on.
    The friend who helped me pack my moose out this year already had 1 of his own, and it is more than enough for him and his wife, so I won't be giving any of the meat to him. Even so, about 1/2 of my moose will be given away. There are a few people who have let me cut wood on their land who will all be getting moose meat, and an old guy I know who can't hunt any more (he's over 90 now) will also get a good chunk of it. I've got 4 kids, and we're all carnivores here, so we could eat an entire moose ourselves, but a big part of hunting is (or should be) providing for others.
    We are right to take alarm at the first experiment upon our liberties.
    James Madison

  18. #18
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walk-in View Post
    Your post is too long to quote, and I'm not computer literate enough to know how to only quote part of it without manually deleting the parts I don't want, but you're right on.
    The friend who helped me pack my moose out this year already had 1 of his own, and it is more than enough for him and his wife, so I won't be giving any of the meat to him. Even so, about 1/2 of my moose will be given away. There are a few people who have let me cut wood on their land who will all be getting moose meat, and an old guy I know who can't hunt any more (he's over 90 now) will also get a good chunk of it. I've got 4 kids, and we're all carnivores here, so we could eat an entire moose ourselves, but a big part of hunting is (or should be) providing for others.

    right on...


    rep added
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  19. #19

    Default

    Your post is too long to quote, and I'm not computer literate enough to know how to only quote part of it without manually deleting the parts I don't want, but you're right on.
    The friend who helped me pack my moose out this year already had 1 of his own, and it is more than enough for him and his wife, so I won't be giving any of the meat to him. Even so, about 1/2 of my moose will be given away. There are a few people who have let me cut wood on their land who will all be getting moose meat, and an old guy I know who can't hunt any more (he's over 90 now) will also get a good chunk of it. I've got 4 kids, and we're all carnivores here, so we could eat an entire moose ourselves, but a big part of hunting is (or should be) providing for others.
    Well said. Rep points, man points and common sense points all appointed!
    Alaska Outdoors Television ~ Outdoor Channel

  20. #20
    Member sledhands's Avatar
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    Default Respect

    Definitions of 'respect' (rĭ-spĕkt́)
    Dictionary.com · The American Heritage® Dictionary - (9 definitions)

    [From Middle English, regard, from Old French, from Latin respectus from past participle of respicere, to look back at, regard, re-, re-, + specere, to look at.]

    (transitive verb: -spect·ed, -spect·ing, -spects.)
    To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem.
    To avoid violation of or interference with: respect the speed limit.
    To relate or refer to; concern.
    (noun)
    A feeling of appreciative, often deferential regard; esteem. See synonyms at regard
    The state of being regarded with honor or esteem.
    Willingness to show consideration or appreciation.
    Polite expressions of consideration or deference: pay one's respects.
    A particular aspect, feature, or detail: In many respects this is an important decision.
    Usage Problem Relation; reference. See Usage Note at: regard


    So there is the dictionary definition of respect!
    How do we learn these things as a hunter? They are generally passed down to us from those we have learned to hunt from. By the rules we learned by. I learned if you are going to kill be ready to eat it as a kid. Killing small birds with a bb gun I thought I was the king. I proudly brought my trophies home only to find out that "you killed it you eat it". So at a young age I was introduced to chikadees as a meal. I took the lesson to heart and never shot anything I wasn't going to eat from then on. As I developed into a young hunter I always carried this lesson.
    When hunting the shot is the key if one is not totally confident of ones ability to perform the shot and make a good clean kill the shot should be passed on, your advisary should be given that respect.. Even so I have spent days looking for a bear that was solidly hit at 80 yds 4 times with a 338and never found him. I still to this day wonder about the whereabouts of that bear 16 years later. Found his lair many caribou carcasses laid out neatly in a circle in the middle of a alder thicket, Smelled the musky smell of the bear still can if I think about it. But to my partner and I 's dismay that mature boar was never found.
    Other hunters, I sometimes may not be the most respectful hunter to other folks. I may shoot while out hunting for the sake of shooting, smelling the powder feeling the kick on my shoulder, just feeling alive. Where this may ruin a hunt for others for me it is part of it. When approached by others and asked in a polite manor not to do such things I would have no problem in saying sorry and not do it again in that area. But don't approach with an attitude because that doesn't seem to go over to well with me.
    I relish the kill or harvest. ( It is a harvest because when you harvest the peas you do kill them) I enjoy telling the tale of the hunts I have endured. Whether sleeping under a tarp deer hunting on Baranof or sheep hunting the chugachs huddled under the hide, moose hunting the nushagak in endless rain or caribou on the selawik with the first ice. It has all been some of the most memorable adventures that any lifetime could have. As I write I almost can't wait for the next time my over confidence in my ability puts me into a survival situation that ingrains in me the respect for my quarry that it so richly deserves. While leaving me with a feeling of awe at mother nature herself.

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