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Thread: Newbie here, interested in shotgun muzzle loader

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    Member akblackdawg's Avatar
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    Default Newbie here, interested in shotgun muzzle loader

    Hey, I would like to try some shotgunning mostly for ducks with a black powder muzzle loader. Does anybody have any experience with shotguns? Any shotguns for sale? Looking at the doubles that Cabelas has for sale, have seen them in the stores also when down south, but hesitant to buy one just to experiment with, would like to try it first or at least talk with somebody knowledgeable. Feel free to call or post reply. Bud 240 4090

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    I use to own a Cabelas side by side 12 gauge, they are a pretty fun gun to take out after small game. I sold that gun to rimfirematt, so maybe he'll chime in as he's pretty knowledgable on bp shotguns.

    Two items to consider. If you're going to use the shotgun for waterfowl, get a chrome lined barrel so you can shoot steel shot. Some of the older bp shotgun barrels can not shot steel. Other consideration, interchangeable chokes are great if you can get a barrel that'll accept them.

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    Member rimfirematt's Avatar
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    I'm not sure what you want to know. like shearej said getting one with a chrome lined barrel or one that is approved for steel shot is your main consideration. The pedersoli/cabelas line up fits the bill. I believe the Navy arms guns too.

    Where/how you hunt waterfowl will be a bigger factor with a muzzleloading shotgun. By that I mean, you need a good solid place to stand. Forget about standing in the muck. There is alot going on kinda when it comes to the shotgun. You have wads, paper discs, powder, shot and caps to contend with. All of wich is water sensitive. Also to keep these items organized means wearing alot of stuff, powder horn, shot flask (they arent cheap) powder measure, possibles bag.

    Once you have the thing loaded though it will do anything any modern shotgun will do. Having said that, I dont really enjoy them anymore. They are just as effective as anything shotgun wise. they are just more of a heartache to load. I just dont get the nostalgia effect with them that I do with a patched roundball. I guess Im just throwing that out there cause thats what happened to me and I dont use it anymore. But try it out, I certainly had fun with it for awhile.

    And one final note, experiment with Lots of differnt loadings, by varying shot size, quantity, powder quantity, wads, cards ect before you use it for hunting. They can be a little finicky when trying to find the right load.

    Gunbroker is a good source to find used shotguns. They have a navy arms and a couple of pedersolis' on there right now

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    Member akblackdawg's Avatar
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    Thank you Matt & Sherej, I guess thats one of the things I was interested in is how much difficulity it is to do all the loading, etc. I read where you can preload packets to help avoid a lot of the field loading and measuring, do you do that. If you are not using yours, do you plan on keeping it or selling it. I will take a look at the place you mentioned, I live in the valley but am going into Anch tomorrow and will look for it. I do a lot of duck hunting as it is, and think it would be fun to try. Bud

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    Member rimfirematt's Avatar
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    Default

    I was talking about gunbroker.com. Its an online auction site. Finding a Muzzleloading shotgun in town is tough to do. Call around first.

    Im not sure how you can pre-measure everything. By the time you measured and sorted 20 rounds of shots, there would be alot of containers floating around. Honestly once your organized, loading a shotgun isnt that big of a deal. with a little practice, you could get both barrels loaded in under two minutes. Especially with the sight of a flock of ducks coming around!

    also go to muzzleloadingforum.com. I was just there and there is a Navy arms 12 guage for 4 hundred something that looks nice. and thats a good deal I think. The only drawback with that one is you wont be able to get chokes for it like a pedersoli/cabelas one.

    I had a good time using the shotgun for rabbits. I think youll have a good time using one for ducks too.

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    Member The Kid's Avatar
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    Default for a starter gun

    You could also check the online auction sites for a used H&R Huntsman. They came in 12ga and have a sealed breach, so they arent quite as moisture sensitive. I have one that I would sell you but I left it down south when I moved up here. Heck I even put a fiber optic bead on it and installed screw in chokes when I was going through gunsmith school. Anyways one of them might be cheaper thatn a double if you just want a starter gun to try out.

  7. #7
    Member sharps5090's Avatar
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    Default Waterfowl with Muzzleloader

    Akblackdawg,
    I have a older Navy Arms Double that I used most every year back in the lead shooting days.
    Had very good luck with it and was lots of fun. I used premeasured loads, two shotgun shells taped together with powder in one end and shot in the other, a bag of fiber wards and some caps and I was all set. I hunted several times in the the rain with no problem.

    I haven't had much success with steel. With the right ward combination you should be able to get it to shoot ok. I would think bismith wood work fine if you could find any.

    I still use it to bird hunt some and if you would like to shoot it sometime let me know and we could get together.

    Chris

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    I have a double pedersoli and would buy this gun again before the cabelas shotties. Truely even the old navy arms are all pedersoli's to varying degrees of quality. I dont care for the blued barrels and the quality doesnt seem as good as the dixie gun works model.

    I've turkey hunted with mine a few years and also goose hunted last year with it in MN. She puts the hammer down on some longbeards once we replaced the nipples. Was having a pop and no kick happening..meaning busting caps but she wouldnt fire. Guess the nipples on pedersolis all the way around a junk.

    Actually you dont need flasks for this or any of that stuff.

    I preload into film canisters, white/clear for shot, black for powder.

    I also have a couple plastic airborne tablet bottles for wads..they work great if you put things in order, out they come in order and the cap on the airborne (got to your local pharmacy you'll find it there or fredmeyers), has what I'd call a plastic spring to help keep things pushed down.

    For shot and turkeys I add a wad of toilet paper to each shot load in the canister to keep the noise down.

    Yup it'll be kinda hard to load in water, of course you could easily bring a 12"x12" piece of plywood and load on this. The wads themselves aren't overly tight, well the 1/8 nitro is a bit tight, but cushion and over shot wads (depending on what shot colum works for YOUR gun) are a pretty easy affair to put in.

    I had an issue with bad caps this last fall goose hunt..otherwise she shot fine.

    You can find used navy arms and cabelas brand pedersolis for sale quite regularly, though they are usually 12ga's. Mines a 10 which is basically a normal 12 ga load.

    I'm also in the process of building a pair of 10ga flintlock fowlers, one for my old man one for myself...for turkey hunting of course but there's no reason you couldnt use them on goose.

    His gun is NOT lined and he shoots steel out if it fine. The gun is what we've aged to be 150 yrs old. We've had to do some serious stock work to it, other then that she's definatly a shooter!

    As for shot...I want to try some of the "nice shot" seems to be a replacement for bismuth, which worked well out of bp muzzleloaders. For turkeys I shoot #5 copper plated lead. For geese we were using copper plated steel, the bb's in a tub you find at walmart was the cheapest route. Measure it out and fill your film canisters. The only thing you'll need for tools is a good capper makes life easy, and a possibles bag. The bag doesnt need to be overly big..matter of fact I dont bother with one. For turkeys I use my vest..for goose hunting last fall I just used my pocket, one side for bp, the other for shot, and my airborne canister for the wads, same one I've used for the last 3 years now.

    I would recommend replacing the fiberglass rod with an aluminum one. Or some other material. I didnt like the wood rod, replaced it with fiberglass, talk about nasty splinters. My old man built a good aluminum rod for me. works lke a champ!

    I forgot to add, mine doesnt have chokes like the cabelas. Honestly I dont think you'll want them. To tight of a choke will squash wads and make loading difficult. Even as a turkey gun I dont use chokes other then the mod and cyl that the gun comes as. It will take a while to work up loads, some guys go as far as to build shotcups, I've tried and would like to try some more but have had better luck without them AND without cushion wads. The CW does make relaoding easier, as does running a patch after loading of some bore butter. If you do run cushion wads...a little tip that has helped out my old mans patterns is to run a over shot wad over the cushion wad, then shot then overshot wad again. It helps keep the shot colum from imprinting in the cushion wad.

    Some pics.......
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Dad and his bird and smoothie and my second bird for that year.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Member Alaska Bush Hunter's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Knight TK-2000

    Go on the auction sites and find a TK 2000 from Knight.........suppose to a excellent shotgun with the Jug choke.

  11. #11

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    I hunted almost exclusively with a Navy Arms double 12 with cylinder bores for almost 20 years prior to the requirement for steel shot up here. Like a fool, I let it go, even though it was my principal arm for snowshoe hare run by beagles and for ptarmigan. I just might pick up another one, though I'm betting I get a 20 instead, dedicating it to ptarmigan and rabbits.

    I've kind of gone "the other way" in my shotgunning recently. I've been using a short barreled (32" vs 42") Pedersoli flintlock Brown Bess musket for my shotgunning. It's an 11 gauge (.750 caliber), right in between 12 gauge and 10 gauge, but components are available for it.

    I've been downright amazed how well this thing will pattern 1 1/4 oz of #6 shot. A lubed fiber wad over 80 grains of Goex 3f, the shot charge and a simple over-shot card turns in basketball-sized patterns at 20 yards and very smooth IC choke patterns at 30 yards. That's as far as I'm ever going to shoot hares and ptarmigan, so it works out just right.

    It actually feels pretty outrageous to use the same gun that the British shot at us back in the Revolution, but to whang rabbits here in Alaska. It's big old musket ball may have suffered against longrifles back in 1776, but it sure doesn't have anything to apologize for with a load of shot.

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    ABH,

    thats not a jug choke it's just a regular screw in choke regardless of what they are calling it LOL!

    They did mention the problem with screw in chokes of any kind...you gotta take them out to reload between shots. Not bad for a guy chasing turkeys whose taking one shot or maybe 2 (one each barrel) at a time....but someone chasing small game or waterfowl I wouldnt recommend chokes of any kind.

    They can however jug choke a barrel WITHOUT screw in chokes. Basically they're using a reamer, hollowing out a small portion a few inches up the barrel allowing the shot colum to expand a tad, then it hits the regular muzzle diameter again constricting it. There is no screw in chokes in a traditional jug choked shotgun allowing regular reloading to be done with ease!

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    our smokepoles did well again on longbeards this spring. I'll post a couple pics this weekend. Hoping to have the flintlock fowlers done for next spring (or maybe this fall for geese)

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    I hunted Iowa ringnecks for a couple of years with a TC New Englander with a shot gun barrel. I had a higher percentage of kills with that gun than with my Franchi 48. I think knowing I only had one shot had more to with that than anything attributed to the guns.

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    that and you likely patterened it to find the right load where most shotgunners stick shells in and shoot away. Kind of amazing how much different loads shooting differently with no other variables thrown in using convention scatterguns.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by TradBow View Post
    that and you likely patterened it to find the right load where most shotgunners stick shells in and shoot away. Kind of amazing how much different loads shooting differently with no other variables thrown in using convention scatterguns.
    Your right! Most guys I know measured their shot by volume in accordance to powder. In other words if they had their powder measure set on 80 grains then they filled that same measure with shot and called it good. In my gun anyway that kind of blew the middle out of the pattern. So I sat my measure on 70 grains and filled it with powder and dumped it then changed the measure to 85 grains filled it with shot and dumped it( a wad in betwixt of course). It gave me a much more consistent pattern with better density. Since I was hunting over a very good dog most of the birds I killed were inside 30 yards.

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    I'm still trying to get "THE" load out of my cyl bore....my mod barrel is lethal to 30.... Have used up almost a pound trying to find the loads I've gotten so far. The cyl barrel throws a great pattern to 20, mod to 30. Kinda works out, I typically just use the mod for turkeys and pheasants if we're behind flushing dogs, pointeds I'll cock the cyl bore first instead.

    Have tried making some paper shotcups and some plastic ones too....best I could get was terrible or slugs, nothing inbetween. The joys of shooting bp!!!

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