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Thread: Public lands and multiple use

  1. #1

    Default Public lands and multiple use

    All of my life, I have supported the multiple use banner for public land. I come from several generations of miners who derived most of their existence from the land and the fruits that could be born out of a hard days work. May I also point out that on the other half of the family tree I come from live stock people who raised cattle and sheep on public ground. Freedom and a prejudice for eastern liberal values have always been discussed around our supper table. Our brand of living was live and let live until someone stepped over the line and hurt the people you loved or threatened to take your water. Then, and only then, did you get the guns off the fireplace mantle and move to correct the problem (figuratively speaking.) People I grew up with got a strap across the backside from dear old dad when they stepped out of line. Ethics and values were taught at a young age and lines in the sand were very few because people operated out of common sense, trust and respect.

    Today I can see that demographics and values have changed in America. The free love Woodstock children of the sixties and seventies infiltrated public school systems disguised as educated elitists and spent the last thirty year changing the values of America. Not all of this was or is wrong. However the family system that I grew up in has changed and been warped into a system of every person for their selves. You might call it the law of the jungle, but even that is not correct. According to “Focus on the Family,” in 2006, forty percent of the children born will be born to a single parent and this statistic has been on the rise for the past thirty years. Kids now raise kids with little or no ethical, religious or moral values.

    Kroger park in South Africa has for the past twenty years been releasing orphaned elephants back into the park to replenish its depleted herd. The result of this practice has all but eliminated the rhinoceros from the park. Young adult gangs of male elephants have been killing the rhinoceros at alarming rates and causing shear havoc in the surrounding area . A ten year study showed that the orphaned elephants lacked the learned social skills needed to cooperate in a healthy native group. The orphaned elephants have evolved into gangs of thugs without any regard for learned or acting with proper elephant social behavior. Now, South Africa is importing mature bull elephants form other native herds around Africa to try and instill control over the groups of young adult gangs of male elephants.

    You might ask why I have gone into this diatribe, and what this has to do with public lands and multiple use?

    As I have traveled this great land for many years I have come to an alarming conclusion that bears are the least of my problems when I leave my truck at the end of the road. From the time I leave until the time I return, this last few years, I am discussed at the shear disrespect that has been shown by mankind to the land and his fellow man. I have followed ATV tracks into my favorite hunting spot only to find a camp with heaps of beer cans and trash left behind or on one occasion finding what looked like a meth lab and dumped chemicals. Upon returning back to the road and finding that my truck had been vandalized. I have flown into a remote cabin to find it riddled with bullet holes. Have arrived at Forest Service cabins to find the floors burned out and the front porches torn up for fire wood. This does not bode well for the “so called” sportsmen who inevitably will be blamed.

    In a thread started on ATV's the general feeling is that ATV’s and ORV’s have no effect on our landscape or our wildlife. Is this not a very ignorant and narrow minded perspective? And to accuse a fellow poster of fuzzy math while trying to make your point, does not change the truth or the fact that the animals and the land have been impacted by off road activities legal or otherwise!.....

    To go about your outdoor recreational activities with the attitude that this is a free country and the hell with the rest of you, is what I see wrong with America.

    Remember, we are only free until we cross the line and infringe on someone else’s rights!

    You have the right to keep your junk yard at home, but most likely you haven’t got a permit to start one on public hunting grounds or establish a new interstate with you’re new quad runner.

    I was pleasantly surprised a few years ago while I was hunting white tails in Alberta. Every place you go to hunt now-days has a sign saying: “No Trespassing,” or “Keep Out.” I was delighted to see signs on private property that said: “Use Respect.”

    Using Respect would go along ways towards fixing most, if not all, of Americas problems. For those few of us that do not know the meaning of the word respect? It is time that you go back to school.... It may be time for a few of us old “moral minority” fart’s to go back to school and volunteer some time and try and instill some real values in our public education system? We might start with the teachers......

  2. #2

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    Very well stated. However, the very first thing we need to do as a society is strike down stupid liberal judges, lawyers and most importantly, the ACLU. They are the core of the wrong way this country is headed and the demise of morals, values and respect in this country.
    When illegals, terrorists and criminals are given the same rights as law-abiding Americans, there is something very wrong. What we need to do is revert back to the days when we took the bull by the horn here and dealt with these problems right up front. An EXCELLENT example of this was the Eisenhower era crackdown on illegals called Operation Wetback. (I don't want to hear the dribble of me being "racist". That is just plain wrong). This is actual fact and if you type "Operation Wetback" in your search engine, you will see I'm not making this up. It should have been called something a bit less insulting, though. But, back then that's the way it was.
    Bottom line, we as Americans, need to take our country back and reinstate morals, discipiline in our kids and uphold American traditions and values. Right now, we are in a freefall. And dang it, It's a CHRISTMAS tree, not a holiday tree!!!!!!!! Again, the breakdown of American values and traditions.
    Now just why in the hell do I have to press "1" for English???

  3. #3

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    Very well stated by both of you and I agree completely.

  4. #4
    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    I take great offense to your snide remarks against the woodstock generation and the ACLU they are not the core of the problem they are the ones who work to save the land albeit super radically but when's the last time you sat in front of a bulldozer to keep an area from being logged. You have those people to thank for your ability to enjoy the wilderness. What part of all men are created equal DON'T you understand? While I agree the world is to politically correct I don't agree with your assertion that liberals are to blame for the rampant destruction of our public lands, the problem is industrializeation and consumerism which is a very conservative value. If industrial farms didn't exist there would be more farmers and less people in the city and more people would make money working the land. If there weren't any industrial mines the resources would be more valued and more people would make money. If there was no wall mart people would not be taking minimum wage jobs with no benifits and might have time to get outside and enjoy the glorious land they live in. These are the problems with free trade, these are the problems with capitalism, this is why progressives work so hard for their beliefs so you, I, and anyone can enjoy ourselves in our lifetimes.

    Last time we took the bull by the horns we hung anyone who was black if they looked at a white girl the time before that we arrested thousands of German and Japanese Americans and held them on the cahrge that they we German or Japanese. Before that we wiped out the indiginous population of America. If you support those you are a racist clear and simple. Besides whens the last time you saw a mexican in the woods in Alaska? I've seen like 2 maybe. Remember timothy McVeigh was white as driven snow.

    I agree we shouldn't turn the wilderness into an ATV bog, if people can't understand the ethics involved then lets ban ATVs. I know I hate when people ruine something I enjoy for me when they do it irresponsibly but the actions of a few can have serious consequences on a lot. THe fix to the specific problem is we need more law enforcement in this state and tougher motorized vehicle access restrictions and people to enforce those restrictions, but our state is run by conservatives who don't believe in any taxes which makes it impossible to actually do anything.
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

  5. #5
    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    I will also point out that your first point oozes hatred and your second oozes liberalism.
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

  6. #6
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Alright, this one is going nowhere fast. Lets keep it civil, fellas. We're continuously crossing the line from healthy debate into personal attacks and vitriolic accusations. I (and many others, I am sure) am growing weary of it. Lets give it a rest for a while, eh?

    -Brian

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