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Thread: Reactions to Pt. Hope fiasco by Arctic Advisory

  1. #1
    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    Default Reactions to Pt. Hope fiasco by Arctic Advisory

    Maybe they should train hunters to shoot only desirable animals and to look out for animals that are diseased, etc... That sounds more like common sense to me. Maybe that's not "traditional"?

    Tim

    Article from the Alaska Dispatch:
    http://www.alaskadispatch.com/news/r...-of-game-rules

    Arctic hunters push for rewrite of game rules
    Jill Burke
    Sep 22, 2009

    Arguing that "commonsense" hunting practices are in conflict with state law, an advisory committee wants the state to rewrite its regulations governing how animal meat is salvaged.

    The proposal comes after a 2008 summer caribou hunt in which Alaska State Troopers claim meat from dozens of animals outside the Inupiat Eskimo village of Point Hope was wasted. Eight hunters from the village are accused of leaving the meat to rot and are fighting criminal charges in state court. They argue their actions were justified because the animals looked sick.

    The Arctic Advisory Committee to the Alaska State Board of Game proposes changing the legal definition of the word "edible" so that hunters "are no longer forced to break the law." The Board of Game is scheduled to meet in Nome in November to discuss this and other proposals.

    Under current law "people are legally required to salvage meat that is in fact inedible and could present a health risk to a person that consumes it," according to the committee, which includes a mix of North Slope Borough employees and residents.

    Hunters are trained to look for swollen joints, abscesses, infection, parasites and other symptoms of disease, and to leave those animals behind, according to the committee. Its proposal states that hunters are taught to kill some animals for purposes other than hunting. One is humane killings to put severely wounded animals out of their misery. The other is killing sick animals to prevent the spread of disease.

    State law makes no provision to allow meat that a hunter perceives as diseased to be left behind. "The hunter is doing the right thing, but under the current regulations, he is breaking the law," the Arctic Advisory Committee writes in its proposal.

    The committee says forcing hunters to salvage diseased or contaminated meat puts them at risk of ingesting infectious agents. In the case of Point Hope, the hunters and the village council say that any caribou left behind in summer 2008 looked ill or had prior wounds, and thus were unfit to eat.

    State troopers said their investigation into last year's caribou hunt found 60 carcasses that had either been fully or partially wasted, and they suspected even more dead caribou were left on the tundra. Troopers, who called the kill "by far the worst case of blatant waste they had ever seen," circulated photos showing calves suckling dead cows shortly after the hunt.

    But the village council, which views the criminal cases as an attack on its community's subsistence way of life, questions the troopers' numbers. Court records reference 37 wasted caribou, while an investigation by local community members found nine carcasses.

  2. #2
    Member atvalaska's Avatar
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    Wink i agree!

    The degree i got at B.S.&U......said to ground check everything!......48"? 50"? -POW -POW -POW ... oops.... guess i'd better get better at that 50" 3&4 brow tine rule to.........
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    Moderator AKmud's Avatar
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    There is always an angle to take....

    No one can simply take responsibility for their actions these days . I can't believe the spin they are trying to make here! Shooting and leaving 37-60 (depending on who you ask...) caribou (some with calves!) to rot on the tundra is not responsible game managment no matter how you look at it.

    Since when is it the "hunters" responsibility to cull the herd?? Let mother nature take her course and allow the predators to do the work.

    Hold these idiots accountable!
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    I can see where that could go. ****....I thought it was 65 inch bull and hmmmm does not look that good to me.. It was only 58 inch so Na I'll leave it and go on about my business. Now where did that 65 inch bull go...

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    Sadly, out here, I have seen guys unload a magazine "at" a herd, then wait for the animals to run away. Those that didn't they shot again until they fell down.

    Naturally the ones that were mortally wounded but could run, ran away and died. Prolly how this all happened, then throw in booze.

    I also know guys who make it a point to use one cartridge for one animal. I just bought a box of Winnie .300 mag., the fancy nickle-plated cases with the expensive Winchester black bullets, he uses one box a year because he only uses one shell per animal. But I think he is the exception to the rule.
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    Member Phish Finder's Avatar
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    If ever there were a case of "Smoke and mirrors"...

    This is a weak attempt to change sentencing for those who committed this act. If the law can be changed, the argument can be made that these boys did the right thing.

    If this is allowed to pass, we all lose!
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    Nice! a license to kill anything that walks! this is BOGUS!

  8. #8
    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    Holy Crap!! Lets say 100 caribou were shot and 10 were so diseased that they were unconsumable. That means 10% of the caribou are not fit to eat. To me that means they are going to die. At that rate there won't be any caribou left, even if we didn't shoot any.

    I've been around a couple dozen kills of all kinds of species. Not too many considering what many have done in this state. However, NOT ONCE, have I been around an animal too diseased to eat.

    Last season we even ate a wild turkey in California that had one of it's breasts totally ridden with infection from a wound. The other breast and legs were fine. Cook it up, heat kills them germs
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    Ever see a Caribou's back in late June or early July?

    There's puss pockets and scabs galore from the warbel flys hatching out their skin and what the misquitos do to the raw spots while the hair is growingback.....na na na nasty!!
    Skin it and carry on.

    Fact is, its NOT a disease, its common, seasonal, and does nothing to ruin the quality of flavor of the meats, so the whole idea of it is Bull*****.

    None of these guys are biologists, nor did they send samples to ADFnG as is advised.

    These guys were not and are not Subsistance hunters, not even sport hunter, they are slobs with guns.

    They had court yesterday, at least a "Status" check.
    I hope the dont plea out and go to trial, so they can do some real time......
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

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  10. #10
    Member danjordan78's Avatar
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    Default Thanks Stranger!

    Stranger,

    Nice to see someone from the Bush agreeing that this is all bogus. I was invited to go help with something on the North Slope and cancelled my plans after the government up there decided to support these people. I've always been enamored with the Bush lifestyle and wish I could live it myself. Maybe someday I will. I know most out there are living honest, but this has really put a bad stain on the Native community. It's only adding fire to the racism that goes both ways. By supporting these "hunters" they are alienating their culture and what respect they might have had or earned.

    Always knew I liked your stories and point of view on things. Best of luck this winter and happy hunting!
    Dan

    "May the gods keep the wolves in the hills and the women in our beds!" Menalaus -Troy

  11. #11

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    Well...this should leave ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT in anyone's mind, what the ELDER'S would have done, had they had the opportunity to handle the situation, as they requested. Their requests are about as valid as the proposal. If the change is made, I hope it is statewide and not a local exemption.
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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Regretfully history repeats itself even in hunting.At least now we have folks to speak against it before it gets out of hand again.

  13. #13
    Member sledhands's Avatar
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    In my statewide travels I have seen some blatant waste. Caribou with the hinds cut off and the rest taken to the dump many times. This year I saw a pile of 40+ geese killed and never taken care of. So to the dump they went thats where I saw them. I hauled a truckload of whale blubber to the dump from one of our remodels that was left behind by the tenant (truckload} I was working in the Pt Hope area at the time of this falousy (is that correct} The word was that the shooting took place meat was collected then hauled off with the expectation of retuning for the rest. The weather got bad and the return was never made. That was from locals from a neighboring village. How much truth I don't know. Does anybody Know what ever happen to George in Hooper bay who shot all the Musk-ox so no outside hunters could kill them. I believe the # was 19 musk-ox dead 2 left alive. The problem is that a few make it look bad for the native community as a whole and the council sticking up for their own is understandable. But believe this Point hope is not Outsider friendly and has a reputation as being hostile to outsiders. So the fact that they don't support outside prosecution is no surprise.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by sledhands View Post
    In my statewide travels I have seen some blatant waste. Caribou with the hinds cut off and the rest taken to the dump many times. This year I saw a pile of 40+ geese killed and never taken care of. So to the dump they went thats where I saw them. I hauled a truckload of whale blubber to the dump from one of our remodels that was left behind by the tenant (truckload} I was working in the Pt Hope area at the time of this falousy (is that correct} The word was that the shooting took place meat was collected then hauled off with the expectation of retuning for the rest. The weather got bad and the return was never made. That was from locals from a neighboring village. How much truth I don't know. Does anybody Know what ever happen to George in Hooper bay who shot all the Musk-ox so no outside hunters could kill them. I believe the # was 19 musk-ox dead 2 left alive. The problem is that a few make it look bad for the native community as a whole and the council sticking up for their own is understandable. But believe this Point hope is not Outsider friendly and has a reputation as being hostile to outsiders. So the fact that they don't support outside prosecution is no surprise.
    I would like to hear more of the Hostilities demonstrated by the Point Hope residents that you experienced. It would help us understand their actions, I think.
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    Member sledhands's Avatar
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    I really can't get into specifics cause Pt Hope is one of our villages. When working there it is hard to bring in outside help to get a job done. The village sees it as a lost opportunity for local employment. So One outside person will run a job with all local hire. Pt hope has well qualified and capable hands. With some jobs there is a need for a quantity of qualified employees. Something many of the villaqges are lacking. Also with a hard money job employees need to come to work everyday. It cost money to be late on completions, to run into inclement weather, and other things that dragging a job on does to the expense. With that being said. we have had difficulty with the council in bringing in qualified tradesman to assure completion times. Shut jobs down there for social reasons. I know you want to know what but I am not at liberty to discuss it at this time.
    Pt hope is a close Knit community on the Arctic coast a very hostile environment. Quite possibly as tough as any on the planet. Survival depends upon one another and there is no reason to think that if you throw a rock at one that the whole town won't throw back. Unity is the key to survival in the arctic and to think that any of these communities would give up their own is a stretch. Especially not for a few caribou or to a white government. The community will speak with a unified voice and I believe will be granted if not all. At least part of what it desires from the board. There will no doubt be concessions but none of the individuals involved will be singly held accountable for the slain caribou.
    Mind you this is only my opinion based on a lifetime of experiance in bush alaska.

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